Club direction. Call for help!

[Rendos]

History - I have been in the hobby for 14 years...started as a hobbyist, was part owner of a LFS in Jackson, TN for several years, and owned an online coral frag web site. I heard people on a regular basis asking me if there was an aquarium club in the area. My answer was of course....NO. I said for years that I wish there was one. I would join and be an active member in an instant...I just didn't want to be in charge. Well, with the encouragement of my mother, I started one.

June 2005. - I started the Jackson Area Marine and Reef Aquarium Club. At the first club meeting, I soon realized that even Memphis did not have a club in existence, and several people from Memphis drove up to my house for the first meeting. In the following months, more and more people joined....many of those from the Memphis area. We, as a club, decided to rename the club West Tennessee Marine and Reef Aquarium Club to make those in Memphis, and throughout West TN feel more like a poart of the club.

August 2005. - JAMRAC was officially changed to WTMRAC.

I recruited several pet shops as club sponsors. Most offered the club discounts on goods, and offered their stores for meeting places. In return most stores stated that the reason behind this was to encourage more people to become interested in the hobby, and in turn make the hobby grow, and create a more educated hobbyist.

Our club officially turned a year old in June 2006. We went from 17 members at the first meeting to over 100 in June 2006. While the club growth has been tremendous, the point to the club, in my opinion, has been skewed.
It seems that no longer do we have workshops, classes, and educational meetings.
We are turning into a discount club.
While receiving discounts is a great thing...I did not, and do not, want that to be the point to joining. I say this because we now stand to lose our most loyal sponsor, and I DO NOT want that to happen. I hope that we, as club members, can start to turn this around. I hope that I start seeing the club go back to it's original idea of educating hobbyists, and getting new people interested in this wonderful hobby.

You ask, how do we do that?
Well, I do not have all the answers, but here is one idea.

Ask if we, the club, can set up a tank in a school for a day. (I am sure some club members have children in school)
Something like star fish, snails, crabs, feather dusters, etc. that the kids can look at and give a short class on what each of these are...what they eat, etc. (Science teachers would probably love to have this in their classrooms for a day...they may even help)

If others have ideas, please share them, and please try to help me turn the direction of the club around. I want to see my baby grow into something we can be proud of...not just take advantage of.

Richard Rendos
Founder WTMRAC

[bshumake]

This is something that we have tried to address in the past and it has become something that concerns me too. While we boast a membership or over 100, I only see 20 core people with any regularity. Are there really only 20 people interested in learning more, teaching others and expanding the hobby?

[DrPeaches]

My interest in this club grew from a desire to learn more about reefs and how to keep them successfully. Reading books and articles on the Web can only take a novice so far, so I sought a place where I could get friendly advice from others with much more experience than myself. In the few months I have been in the reef hobby I have already met many new people and made new friendships. I could have never been successful without their support, suggestions, and guidance. Even when I've felt like I was being a pest in pursuing information, people in this club have always been there gladly and willingly providing much-needed information, and I appreciate the support.

As of now I have several corals, some snails, three peppermint shrimp, and whatever hitchhikers that made it along the way in my tank. I don't even yet own a saltwater fish. With my next-to-zero experience level in the reef hobby and my relatively new membership in this organization, it's difficult for me to provide any suggestions for direction. Most of the time I feel like I'm wandering around this hobby lost myself, just hoping I don't kill anything before I figure out what I'm doing.

This much I do know, however. About three years ago I set up a twenty-gallon tank with five feeder goldfish and a pleco in the hall of my wife's elementary school. Every day two children from her kindergarten class march down the hall with a few flakes of food to give to the fish. Feeding the fish has become the favorite job of everyone in her class. But it's not only these kids who grow to love the fish; all the kids in the school stop and marvel at the tank. When I go to school weekly to service the tank, teachers and kids alike stop me to ask questions about the fish. Surely their interest, piqued by the small aquarium in the hall, will lead to a few fish tanks in their homes.

A few weeks ago a friend gave me a 55-gallon tank stocked full of freshwater tropicals that has now replaced the smaller tank in the hall. "Oohs" and "aahs" can be heard in the halls as teachers, students, and parents alike stop to look at the tank. They ask me about the Bala shark, the clown loach, and the angelfish. Some tell me about their home tanks. Others, I feel, will eventually start their home tanks based on the example in the hall.

So where does all this rambling lead? Well first of all I may have answered my own question. I think this club needs to serve as an organization that can provide support to those who seek to learn marine fish and reefkeeping. The meeting scheduled for tomorrow night is a perfect example. I plan to be there to ask unceasing questions, so I ask for your patience in advance. I also agree with Richard that outreach needs to be a priority. I've seen how just a few cheap fish in a cheap, cheesy aquarium can inspire children who may never see such a thing at home, and how it can brighten up the sterile concrete halls in a public school. This school aquarium, I think, serves to create a more pleasant learning environment and might just eventually lead to new members in the WTMRAC.

Yes, I'm a rookie so all the help I can provide will probably involve hauling and fetching. But I'm learning, and soon I hope to be proficient enough to provide advice to another newcomer who wants to beautify his home and learn more about marine life without stumbling along the way.

As for a school looking to set up a display tank, I've got a ready and eager volunteer.

[zebrafish]

My reasoning for becoming a member is echoed above. I want to make sure I provide the best living conditions for my fish and inverts. as possible. There is no sense in buying something to just kill it slowly for the sakes of showing some friends and neighbors the pretty little fishy, and then next time they come over and ask where’s that fish you had last time. Oh it died, but look at the cool one I replaced it with. I plan on attending my second club meeting tonight and have a lot of questions, that I am sure someone can help me with. I agree we need to reach out to the schools and other areas where children and parents gather so we can educate people and expand the interest in the hobby. The St. Jude tank is another example of spreading the joy of our hobby. Think about how much happiness the tank brings to the children and parents. It gives them a brief moment to forget about why they are there.

My knowledge is very limited on the hobby, as they say I know enough to be dangerous, but am willing to do grunt work on any projects the club comes up with so that I can learn. And hopefully one day be a person that has a good knowledge base.

My first club meeting I was somewhat intimidated by the people that seemed to be experts in my mind, and was wondering if joining the club was the really the right thing for me to do. But as I thought about it, Yes it was the right thing to do. I asked myself would why are you uncomfortable? Is it because you don’t know as much as everyone else? I know people are not born with this knowledge so it ahs to be learned. At one point in each of my proclaimed experts life they had to be novices, so I am on my journey to become one of them.

To some things up, count me in for being an active participating club member.

[gflat65]

You know, this is an interesting issue for a lot of clubs. I think many responses will echo those above. I'm not in the West Tn. club (but you guys are like a sibling club for us, and I'm from Munford, so I butt my head in where it isn't wanted too often), but see some of the same issues with our club (and East Tn with theirs). Like us, WTMRAC has a lot of newbies. As newbies, you can be instrumental in helping decide what to do at meetings. Old salts forget about some of the problems of a young tank with little experience behind it,and the incremental learnings you gain from experience. If you see anything that you have wondered about-QT'ing (with all of the fun with pests lately), MJ mods for more flow from a MJ, acrylic building workshops (I know Barrett and Richard are good at this type of thing), sump designs, closed loop plumbing discussions, creating frag plugs, making a smorgasbord food mix for your tanks, how to frag certain corals, etc. Anything you guys and gals have ever wondered about, just keep it in mind and offer it up as a suggestion. I think you'll find that many people in the club may have the same curiousities. The St. Jude tanks are a great thing for the club, so other potentials in those regards are ideas, too. I hope I'm not butting in and causing issues here, but these are the types of things Richard and Barrett are looking for. We have the same issue in MTRC. We are becoming more a discount club than a learning club. We meet socially and enjoy the meetings, but don't discuss topics as often as some would like. There is alot of benefit for the clubs on RC to exchange info, and that's great, too, but for the longevity of the club, there has to be more. It's like getting ISO certified. In the beginning, it's not as hard to find things to improve on, but over time it becomes harder and harder.

As a state, we have a huge following in our clubs, as well as great support. I, for one, would liek to see if continue to grow and strengthen. The club supporters are the main entity to keep happy (along with member, but without supporters, new members are less likely to find you, beginning a downward spiral). They help form clubs and keep them going. Ours have been instrumental in our club and I know places like Kermit's have been very beneficial to your club (not to mention the wealth of knowledge that Dave holds in his cavernous brain).

[bshumake]

I would really like to get a smallish tank in a classroom for a day, maby even a week. It was brought up before and is a great idea. If anyone is a PTA member or familiar with their childrens teacers please let me know so I can contact them about this. For elementary school children the concept of interdependent ecosystems and symbiotic relationships is a huge leap in forward thinking. Through our tank and with a little teaching from us, and their teachers, they will realize how interconnected the world is and we are to it. Something that I have come to realize is that in the environment that we have created for ourselves we seem to forget that we impact this earth as much as it impacts us. So they will realize that recucling will help to save this and in turn save this other and so on and so on. Add that with the personality of the reef inhabitants (and the Nemo bandwagon) and this could really turn into something great. I have seen how much the parents, patients, and staff have enjoyed the St Jude tank and KNOW that this would really boost the club, its members, and its sponsors.

[just dave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7970188#post7970188 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gflat65
........ Dave holds in his cavernous brain).


Did you just call me a fathead?

[gflat65]

Better than a flathead, huh? Heard that one a few times growing up;).

[just dave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7971881#post7971881 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gflat65
Better than a flathead, huh? Heard that one a few times growing up;).


Oh,OK.
So you did call me a fathead.

[Rendos]

Why do all the posts in our forums always start out good, and then diminish into name calling, sarcastic comments, and the like? JK.

Thanks for the input Gary.

[drowzee]

i'm guilty. i joined the club primarily for discounts. did not want to attend any meetings or meet anybody. i got curious and went to my first meet and soon after i have gain very good friends and lots of input. i am really happy to see the club growing and i myself putting endevours ouside my own selfish interest. i think this discussion is a good first step towards the right direction. our sponsors has been very good to us as far as hosting, discounts and tons of info. like gary said they are very instrumental to our clubs success so loyalty to them will mean great things for us. hopefully we can convince our NPM to attend and see how we all enjoy everybodies company and share tons of information and very good meatballs.

[just dave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7973093#post7973093 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rendos
Why do all the posts in our forums always start out good, and then diminish into name calling, sarcastic comments, and the like? JK.

Thanks for the input Gary.


Good point, let's just go straight to the name calling and sarcasm.

[luckyfish]

Dave holds in his cavernous brain).

I think this is more of an air head

[cateyes]

Dave===cavernous brain.....air head....... so that's where the echoing is coming from

[MarineFlake]

Let me post this point of view. I just joined the club a while back..I think..At least I paid money to someone somewhere. I didn't know anything about discounts and quite frankly, I could care less about discounts. I have the internet and can find just about anything at a reasonable price. What I *was* hoping to find in this club (having seen it advertised at a local Mem fish store) were other people sharing strategies, technology and ideas for helping each other to become more successful at reef/marine keeping. The 'white noise' found about every other post here does detract from the overall apperance of the club. Seems a little clique-ish. Theres some thoughts straight from the heart..GL.

[luckyfish]

Aside from the jokes, I would like to post some observations from someone who was a the very first meeting and seen the club grow over the past year. One, I have always appreciated how Richard not only made the club happen but really moved it along in the first year, your comitment to the club is clear. And having been there from the begining I would also like to say this; I don't think the club has become a dicount group. Sure the discounts at LFS are of varying levels of importance to members but I believe for those who are active (come to the meetings) the exchange of ideas is the draw. Someone accurately pointed out last night that we have about 20% of the total membership who are active and that's about what you would expect in a young (1 year old) group, especially when half the members have to make a 125 mile round trip to attend (it would be interesting to hear from other clubs what their "active" percentage is). I think if we want to increase attendance/participation we ask the membership 2 questions: 1) what prevents you from participating and 2) what would facillitate you increasing participation. From reading what has been posted on this thread already I would say that we need to pay more attention to helping newer members feel more connected. And I think Pres B made attempts at that last night by talking up the contributions everone can make. I hope this thead continues as I think it is part of the natural development of the group. I have other thoughts but I got to go feed the family.
Tim

[neuroslicer]

I would like to see a more specified agenda. The meeting last night was nice, but for the most part it was more of a social. There's nothing wrong with that, I enjoyed meeting the crew, but I think a specific agenda would attract more members. Or perhaps if one specific agenda might not attract enough, then a plan to discuss two or three specific issues, with a different set of issues every month. we might even poll members a couple weeks ahead of time to ask for suggestions. From what I gather, something like that has been done at some of the previous meetings. I think Barrett had that in mind last night but at least while I was there it didn't really congeal.

[redhawk44cb]

I joined in April, so while I'm not exactly a long time hack, here's $0.02.

Personally, LFS discounts were about the last thing on my mind when I joined. Most of what I have obtained I have bought from other hobbyists. The discounts offered by sponsors are icing on the cake, but I still like cake even with no icing.

I began participating in the club forum on RC when I was considering setting up a reef tank and joined WTMRAC shortly after. Like other new members, I have found the club to be an indispensable source of information. It has made my first endeavors into a complex hobby extremely enjoyable and successful. From my point of view, if one of the stated goals of the club is to inform and mentor those that are new to the hobby, it is a complete success. Six months ago, I couldn't tell the difference between LPS and SPS. I thought that mushrooms and toadstools were probably about the same. And forget about trying to identify any marine fish besides clowns and what I learned on National Geographic. I don't claim to be a fountain of knowledge, but I have three healthy tanks that are maturing well. I could not have done it without this club.

One last thing. As far as public outreach and community awareness of the hobby goes, I CANNOT IMAGINE A MORE IMPORTANT PROJECT THAN THE ST. JUDE TANKS. Our club president has secured our involvement in introducing the hobby to one of the preeminent charitable organizations on the planet. Thousands of children and their parents each year will be exposed to the beauty of our hobby at what is undoubtedly a bleak moment in their lives, and we all know that this will spread interest in the hobby and increase the reputation of this club.

If this club were my baby, I'd be pretty proud.

Colin

[Rendos]

I am proud of everything we have accomplished...very proud. But how many members show up to meetings? How many participate in the club forums? How many joined and you never see them? I am sure that many of the members you don't see have scheduling conflicts with our club meeting schedule. I hope that we can find a way to include more people in the meetings...changing the day and time of the meetings may help with that. Any other suggestions? I started the club because I knew there had to be others with my same interests. I wanted to create a way for those people to come together, meet, discuss, have a good time, make some new friends, etc. I think that we have accomplished that. The St. Jude project is beyond anything I could have hoped for. I would love to see us doing more of that type of community work...getting new people interested in the hobby, and keeping those already interested actively participating.

I appreciate all the comments you guys have written. It makes me see that what I envisioned for the club is happening. I just hope that more people share the same outlook as us. Please help me in making all members, new and old, feel welcome in the club.

Richard

[aharvey]

I finally was off work on the night of the meeting and I enjoyed it!
Good food, great hostess, lively discussion.
It could be slightly more structured. Do all the meetings go for 4 hours?
I would think that a 2 hour meeting with a loose framework of an agenda might allow us to focus a little better and then have a more social time afterwards.
Just my thoughts

[acarson19]

I agree with AHarvey that a little more structure might be nice. This was my first meeting and I had a great time and my husband and I both learned a lot. I like the club for the ability to share and learn from others about our hobby. On the other hand, I, like many others there, didn't know too many folks. A little more structure might have helped those of us who are uncomfortable in new situations feel more comfortable. We could do a 'call to orders' and go around with introductions and our interest in the hobby. I don't think it would be necessary to do this at all meetings, but might be important at meetings where there are many new members in attendance.

I think you all should be very proud of how active the club is. Having so many people at a meeting on a Saturday night during the summer is not something to scoff at! I was amazed at all the people that were there. It is a long way to travel for many of us but well worth the trip. And summer is a busy time for vacations, weddings, etc., which can make it difficult for EVERYONE to attend the meetings.

Thanks to Cass for being a wonderful hostess.

I am anxious to get to know everyone better and hopefully be an active member of the club and to help out wherever I can to help continue making the club a success.

[just dave]

I've seen all the replies to date and while they are thoughtful (mine excluded) they are ,however, a very small percentage of the club. That's even a small sampling compared to the core that makes up the active members which is itself very small compared to the registered members.

The comments ,for the most part, are encouraging they are also expressing a desire for structure and organization within the club, at least as it pertains to meetings.

As I see it the the main thing on the clubs agenda should be creating a schedule of meeting dates with topics as well as a thoughtful rotation of meeting places that would allow everyone a chance to attend at least some of the meetings (Minutes of the meeting posted so that those who could not attend can still be kept in the loop.) Of course creating a club agenda may be the first thing that needs to be done.

After that is done the group should come up with ways to entice / encourage members to attend, new and old alike.

Once those things are done seeking ways to spread the hobby should be addressed.

As the membership grows and participation levels increase other activities that are purely of a community service nature could even be considered.

At certain points the club members should be polled as to their thoughts about the clubs direction and ideas that come from this should be brought up at certain meetings to ascertain their feelings.

The majority should determine the clubs path even if the potential pathways offered only come from the minority.

As a member of many clubs ( successful and unsuccessful ) , I can tell you that active participation by its members and offering "something" that makes others want to join and become active ( and stay active ) are keys to its success.

It is inevitable that some people will not be happy with or feel at home within the organization. This will be easier to address when the club is small but will become harder if not impossible to do so when the club grows larger and larger and gets some momentum.
That's just the nature of a majority run "beast."


Just my views.

[redhawk44cb]

Here's a note as far as scheduling goes. I know I'm in the minority, but I work every Saturday. I work in Jackson, and I usually work until 5 PM. This makes it very difficult to attend meetings in Memphis at 5 PM. On the other hand, having meetings on Sundays or weekdays would undoubtedly make it more difficult for some others to attend. Variation in time and place of meetings can help those of us with odd schedules make meetings. Providing as much advance knowledge as possible of when and where they will be held can help us adjust our schedules to make time. No time, date, or place will be perfect for everybody, and we all know that.

We know that some people join the club strictly to receive sponsor discounts. If we want to keep the enticement factor of having sponsor discounts while encouraging participation, it seems that the discounts should come as a reward for active participation. If receiving discounts is a de facto benefit of paying club dues, there simply will be people who take advantage.

I do like the idea about school outreach. I wonder if we could take a page from DrPeaches' book, and try to set up smallish permanent displays in some schools. We could contact the science departments of area high schools and colleges to gauge interest.

Colin

[Rendos]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7982660#post7982660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redhawk44cb
We know that some people join the club strictly to receive sponsor discounts. If we want to keep the enticement factor of having sponsor discounts while encouraging participation, it seems that the discounts should come as a reward for active participation.

I think that is an excellent idea. Reward active members with a certain attendance record (50-75%) with discounts. Members would then not get a membership card until that criteria has been met, or something like that. The card is not needed for any reason other than the discount anyway.

[neuroslicer]

no, bad idea. you're not giving a reward, but you're giving punishments. i've been a member for 3 months but couldn't make the first two meetings, not because I didn't want to, but because of other more pressing engagements.

[bshumake]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7983145#post7983145 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rendos
I think that is an excellent idea. Reward active members with a certain attendance record (50-75%) with discounts. Members would then not get a membership card until that criteria has been met, or something like that. The card is not needed for any reason other than the discount anyway.
True, but its also nice to have that pretty card in the wallette. Since I'm assuming this would take place at the end of the year (discount determination) and we would have new cards issurd how about embos the discount cards with "Discount member" and everyone who doesn't apply with the basic card? ALL members will still be able to participate in group buys and club functions but there MUST be recognition for attendance and participation. Thats where the instant gratification of LFS discounts would come into play. Group buys don't tend to happed with any regularity, so even if you don't attend the necessary number of meetings to get the Local sponsor discounts you still will get some benefit with group buys...does that make any sense or am I rambling?
I know that some of you expressed concern with the disorganization at the meeting and all I can say is, that was our first "free-for-all." It certinly didn't go as I was planning it to. I felt like I was back in Boy Scouts with everyone splintering up into groups and I was trying to get everyone together. We did get some education going in some of the groups but by far there needed to be more prepwork done. Future "free-for-all's" will be planned better for sure.
The September meeting is scheduled for Vicki Moore's house in Jackson. The topic will be aquarium photography.
October meeting will be at Dr. Jay's house in Memphis, topic pending. And I'm looking into having the November meeting at the Memphis Zoo, with a tour of the Aquarium, and a nice luncheon under the secluded pavilion they have over near the Panda exhibit.
I realize many people join for the discounts, but i'm hoping they will stay for the comradery and community that we are as a club. The St Jude Project hasn't been explored to its fullest potential yet mostly because i'm more concerned with getting the tanks up and operational. Once that happens I plan on having a grand reopening of the tanks with the hospital's local paper covering the event. I can almost guarentee that the AV department will cover it for future use in the telethons (they love a party!) and whenever celebrities come through and fund raisers take place the clinic waiting room (where the tanks are located) is always a tour stop. Right now patients and parents are the ones enjoying the tanks but I have noticed a lot of the staff taking time to enjoy the tanks and some of the top brass have taken an interest aswell. Not to get ahead of myself but i've been warned (with a wink and a smile) that in the new developments onsite, plans are in the works for more tanks. So I hope you volunteers know what you're getting yourselves into :rollface:

[redhawk44cb]

I personally agree with Jay, but it's either accept that some will join for the discount or restrict who gets the discount. In my opinion, the individual sponsor should decide who gets what discount and why. If one LFS wants to give discounts to members with a certain attendance record, they could attend and take role. I'm not a club officer, but I don't necessarily think it's the club's place to tell a sponsor who gets what. Then again, if the club wants to designate levels of membership, and sponsors choose to honor those levels, there's nothing wrong with that. The bottom line is that the sponsor makes the final call.

Then there's this... if we start having 100 people attend, where the crap are we gonna meet?

[lcasey7635]

I had a slightly different reason for joining the club in the Spring. I check the posts on RC almost every day since that is the easiest way for me to learn at this point. When it was announced that the club would be working to upgrade the St. Jude tanks, I could not join fast enough. I have certain limitations on time and money, as everyone does, and the St. Jude tanks gave me the chance to become involved in something I have enjoyed in one form or another since I was 10. Thankfully the price was right for working on the St. Jude tanks since the main cost was time.

I have attended a meeting or two since joining. I am still very intimidated at the thought of moving from a stable freshwater systems to one that requires a larger commitment in both time and money. My main limiting factor in attending more meetings is the day and time of the typical meeting. My wife and I both have hectic weekly schedules and Saturday night is generally the day we set aide for each other. Before you ask, I would love for her to join, but her only concern is that the tank not smell up the house. Sunday nights would be much more convenient.

I might also suggest having some meetings that are smaller in size to address specific issues that multiple people, especially those new to the hobby, might need to address. Again I am not as active as I would like so I am not sure if this would work. Once a quarter it would be nice to go to a house or shop where we could get some hands on experience managing a reef system. This could probably only be done using small numbers of members at a single time since it would be hard for 15 people to work on a system at the same time. I realize that most of the people who have been in this hobby for some time have forgotten more about reefing than I currently know. I would love someone to walk me through their typical maintenance routine or teach me how to measure and adjust the chemistry of a system correctly so I do not kill everything in the tank. There is so much to learn if you want to be successful in this hobby and I am still trying to figure out where to start.

Just my thoughts. Ignore them if you want.

Thanks

Larry

[bshumake]

I'm glad that everyone is chiming in with their comments. It really helps me to get an idea of where things are and where their going. Perconally, I think we're not to bad for a 2 year old. You should see mine :-)

[just dave]

I think a certain level of attendance in order to qualify for certain discounts is a fine idea. I do, however , think the number of meetings required should be relatively low, maybe up to 25%. The idea would not be to punish but to try and get the members that only joined for the discounts to come to some meetings. Once they attend, who knows ,they may like it and attend regularly after that. If something like this is decided on and put into action the club should make every effort to come up with a schedule that would allow everyone the opportunity to attend at some point. Now a certain level of attendance in order to vote on any issues should be required in my opinion. As to who keeps up with who attends, that's the role of the club secretary.

The discount issue is really a non-issue anyway. As many have said they were not in it for the discounts. The club will survive without discounts and if doesn't, it wasn't much of club in the first place. As to members that only join for the discounts...., more revenue for the club.

[boofer]

An alternating Sat/Sun schedule with possibly a couple weeknight meetings would settle availability issues with most. I know most Sat's are bad for me in spring/summer and it seems to be for a few others also.
A little more advance in meeting schedule would also help.
Also, I agree there needs to be some kind of sum of the meeting to those that cant attend for whatever reason. That might help draw others to the meetings also. Let them see/hear what goes on kind of thing.





<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7983670#post7983670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redhawk44cb
Then there's this... if we start having 100 people attend, where the crap are we gonna meet?

Very good point.....Then what? I know how crowded it is sometimes with just the 15-20 people....imagine X5:)

[neuroslicer]

And we need bonus points for anyone willing to host such a motley crew!

[acro-wrasse]

Recap so far:

1. Meeting should have an agenda to provide structure.

2. Have the meeting first, then socialize afterward.

3. Meetings should be at different days/times/cities to allow
everyone a chance to attend.

4. Discounts based on some attendance level to encourage
active participation.

5. Knowledge growth/shared experience is primary reason for
joining.

6. Community activity to grow hobby.


Does this grasp the main ideas?

[willember]

It sounds like this tread was directed at people like me. I am a “charter” member and have attended exactly zero meetings this year. I do check our message board here at RC often. If anyone has asked a question that I can answer (and hasn’t already been addressed) I try to help. I am by no means an expert so I try to keep my answers to my sphere of knowledge. So, am I one of the ‘bad’ members who are just taking advantage of the discounts? I don’t think so. I have spent about $20 at LFS this year. I probably won’t save enough on discount to cover my membership fee. I haven’t been to a meeting yet because there simply are other things going on. Last weekend was the first time in a long time that we have been in town on the day of the meeting. We actually were en route to the meeting this past Saturday when another pressing matter came up. I have read all the post and don’t think there is a problem with our club. There will always be people who attend every meeting. There, hopefully, will always be new people looking for advice and direction. Then there are people who will show up if there is nothing better to do. I am somewhere between the 1st and last categories. So, do get cut off from member benefits? I would worry that if you bring about a feeling of alienation for the 80% of the club that is not ‘active’, you may end up with a 100% active club that is 80% smaller than before. Everyone that sees my tank, and expresses interest in setting up their own, gets the word on our club. I would bet that is one of the best ways of getting new members, besides this board and signs in LFS.
So far no one has addressed what I think was the true reason for this thread. “we now stand to lose our most loyal sponsor” If this is a concern then we can address that, but saying the club is going in the wrong direction because people aren’t showing up at meetings is a bit of a stretch. It would be nice to have workshops and classes, but having one every month is difficult and won’t necessarily encourage people to come. If we are going to talk about setting up a closed loop and I already have a closed loop or don’t want one, that’s not going to get me want to come if I wasn’t already coming. I think the club may want to have quarterly meetings where some fundamental ‘workshop’ type things are done like plumbing or working with acrylics…big picture kind of stuff. The internet has become a huge source of information and the club is a good way to discuss this information. This board serves that purpose to varying degrees. That leaves the actual meetings to hash out the details and discuss nuances. I wish I had had those resources when I was starting out. I think that as the club matures, our goal should be to make meetings enjoyable enough for our experienced members to show up, so they can be there to answer the questions of newer members.
Oh, and as for my suggestion for expanding the club. Don’t most Petco’s and such have a bulletin board for community news and such. Can we post a sign for the club on them? That’s probably where most of our potential members first go to get started. While I am all for the aquariums in schools project for other reasons, I don’t think getting Junior and his 2nd grade class excited about fishies and crabbies is going to get us any members.

[bshumake]

You made a lot of really good points Willem. Thanks for jumping in.
Everyone's comments and statements really helps me to see where everyone perceives the club is and where its headed. Organization is a must and will be handled better. I also think I'll be appointing a new secretary.

[just dave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7988995#post7988995 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by willember
“we now stand to lose our most loyal sponsor”

I can address that.

While I've made suggestions they are just that, suggestions. The club does what the club decides to do and I'm not going to apply pressure to try and bend it to my will. There was only one thing I wanted to see from the club and only one thing that would get my sponsorship and that is for the club to increase interest in the hobby to non-hobbyists. As long as the club actively spreads the "word" ,I'm happy. Doing so is a win win situation for everyone associated with the hobby. If the club decides that is not the direction it wants to go, I'm fine with that. It would mean that I would see no practical reason to support it beyond goodwill. I viewed supporting it at its inception as an investment but the one thing I didn't count on was making friends from some of its members. That puts me in a situation that makes it difficult for me to make a decision based solely on whats best for my business but I must remember ,that at the end of the day, it is a business to me and no longer a hobby.

Something to remember is that discounts by stores ,vendors ,...etc. are given to the club members as a courtesy, they are not purchased with membership. Sponsorship is purchased by paying a slightly higher membership fee and does not require that any sponsor offer any kind of discount. I offered it ( along with other things) so that the fledgling club would have something quantitative to offer its new members.
IMO in order for the club to survive and prosper it must offer something beyond that to its members.

[redhawk44cb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7992116#post7992116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by just dave
Something to remember is that discounts by stores ,vendors ,...etc. are given to the club members as a courtesy, they are not purchased with membership.


<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7983670#post7983670 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by redhawk44cb
In my opinion, the individual sponsor should decide who gets what discount and why. If one LFS wants to give discounts to members with a certain attendance record, they could attend and take role. I'm not a club officer, but I don't necessarily think it's the club's place to tell a sponsor who gets what. Then again, if the club wants to designate levels of membership, and sponsors choose to honor those levels, there's nothing wrong with that. The bottom line is that the sponsor makes the final call.



My point exactly. That's why I think it's a moot point to even discuss the discount from a club administrative point of view. It would make more sense to me to limit things such as group orders or voting privileges; I.E. things that the club itself provides as benefits, if anything.

[redhawk44cb]

What about this:

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060821/NEWS01/608210305/1002

This is just downstairs from where my wife works. As you can see, the entire unit is decorated with under the sea themes. They have a tank that you can barely see at the right of the top picture. She said she thought it was a 55 or a 75 with gravel and plastic plants, and about 4 small fish she didn't recognize... prob freshwater. What do you guys think about shopping the St. Jude idea out to them?

[Reefdiver77]

Colin, I saw that article myself and wondered if it was a SW or FW tank. I know several who work in Maternal Child/Peds myself. I have worked in 2 of those areas in the past. Perhaps we could ask if they have an interest in a Reef tank. Heavens only knows they have the money. I would be glad to help out with a tank in the clinic just so a certain "Nurse" is not present. Colin and Nick know of whom I speak!!

[redhawk44cb]

HA HA... didn't think of that!!! My wife is gonna ask her director if she can find out anything about who maintains the tank, if they have a budget for it, etc. I'm gonna go by there one day this week and check out the tank, maybe take some pics, see if it's something we wanna pursue.

[dtbradly]

Well, i figured i would throw my $.02 in. i am not yet a member of the club, but definitely see myself joining in the next week or two. My reason, is not because of a discount, but from the help i have gotten from a few people, mainly Barrett. I know i have probably bugged the crap out of him, but he has given me so much information and help. I am glad to see that the Prez of the club is so willing to help, which makes me believe that the club is going somewhere. I am looking forward to getting to know more people and learn so much more. I did however go up to St. Jude this weekend and what i learned and the people i met made the experience worthwhile. I was kind of surprised at the number of people but then again more than a couple people in those fish rooms would not be too comfortable.

[crpeck]

There has been a lot of good discussion on this and it is interesting to hear the different perspectives. It sounds like everyone agrees that the discounts are a related, but separate issue than what we accomplish as a club.

Retailers need to believe their discounts generate more sales in the long run or the discounts don’t make good business sense. I believe that discounts accomplish this objective and are effective advertising dollars spent which pay off for the LFS.

Every attractive, well kept reef tank is a living advertisement that inspires others to learn that it is an attainable goal to have one like it. Saltwater still has the reputation of being too hard for the average person and this is just not true anymore. When people in the club get together to discuss and learn from each other, they get ideas of more stuff they want to buy, and help each other build the kind of successful tank that inspires new people to try it for themselves. It all comes back to help the LFS and it is good business to support the club even though the real benefit is hard to measure.

An LFS needs to sustain growth in the hobby to survive. Once our tanks are established, full and mature we don’t spend so much. It’s the newbies and the established reefers going up in tank size that generate the most sales.

Some of the discount does give away profit on purchases that would have been made anyway. But I hope this is offset by the advertising value of supporting the growth in the hobby that is directed straight to a captive audience. As a club, we do need to remind our members of the sponsors’ support and encourage them to look at our sponsors’ stores first before trolling online. By accepting the discount, we need to be mindful of opportunities to help grow the hobby and provide good “word of mouth” advertising for those that support us.

Every nonprofit or club I've ever been involved in always has a small core that does 90% of the work and the remainder of members who just believe in the cause and are happy to support and be there. Those people are still a resource pool to be called on when things need to be done. A lot of people don't push to do but will come through when asked.

Everyone here agrees we have an obligation to educate and to sponsor responsible reef keeping. The St. Jude’s tank is something to be proud of! Barrett have we been short of volunteers for that? I like the school idea, but it seems hard to manage. Can you really set up a tank for a few days and move it around? If so, then it is a great idea.

I like the idea someone had about adopting a tank at the zoo. The guy that runs the tanks there is really nice, but the zoo doesn’t support a budget for them to buy stuff or have good lighting for demanding corals. All of the corals there are really drab and brown. SO many people come through there that it would be awesome to have a really colorful reef with a credit and contact information for the club. If I were an LFS, I’d do that in a heartbeat. What great advertising! Like your own living billboard.

I really like involvement with the club. Any meetings I’ve missed have been legitimate conflicts. If I’d known this last one was going to last 4 hours, I would have joined late.

Whoever it was up there that said something about the group being clique-ish … I really can’t agree with that. I have only found people in this group to be very free with their time, help, and knowledge. The tacky humor is truly just that …. I don’t always join it, have fun with it when I do, and I’ve never let it bother me because I know the intention has only ever been just fun.

The more people we have, the more differences of opinion there will be and the greater need for structure. But we need to remember that our officers are volunteers and give a TON of time for everyone else’s benefit. Anyone who wants more structure or more classes or more anything needs to step up and volunteer to help provide it. Most of the posts up there did have those offers so Barrett, hopefully you can tap some new resources out of this discussion.

I'm one of those who is overwhelmed enough with work, kids and business projects that I don't really push in to be active. But I'm sure committed enough that I'll help whenever you need it.

Thanks to those of you who have kept this going the way it has.

Cathy