Let's see those non-Indo acanthastrea lordhowensis! [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community Archives

smp

08/04/2006, 02:26 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7827780#post7827780 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marillion
Colors, polyp size, and colors. :)

There's no *exact* way to tell, but when you see them side-by-side you know.

I've seen thousands of lordhowensis pics of the last couple of years...I have a pretty good idea now when I see a Japanese, Australian, or non- (Indo or whatever) colony.
Peace,

Chip

Are you serious?!!!
You're saying you can sit there and tell people where their corals come from just by looking at pictures?
I currently hate the state of this hobby. Let me guess, you probably sell a lot of "non-indo" frags for premium prices, right?
Armchair taxonomy.

jasutton

08/04/2006, 03:31 PM

hey man dont bug out. Every group has their elitist. From the Babe Ruth rookies, to the 1st edition spidermans and the shelby mustangs, they all exist. And you know what? We all want that rookie card, comic book, or car. In this case, I WANT THAT CORAL!!

Chip, Nice Pics AND nice coral man...go on, brush your shoulders off :)

RandyO

08/04/2006, 05:13 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7829274#post7829274 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by maddness
impurs looks like a micro and the other are indo lords sweet pieces non the less

I would agree.

RandyO

08/04/2006, 05:16 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7827780#post7827780 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marillion
Colors, polyp size, and colors. :)

There's no *exact* way to tell, but when you see them side-by-side you know.

I've seen thousands of lordhowensis pics of the last couple of years...I have a pretty good idea now when I see a Japanese, Australian, or non- (Indo or whatever) colony.
Peace,

Chip

I would agree here as well. The more you see, the better you are at ID'ing them. It's not an exact science. I can usually tell an Indo from a Non-Indo lord.

tacocat

08/04/2006, 05:49 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7879125#post7879125 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
I currently hate the state of this hobby. Let me guess, you probably sell a lot of "non-indo" frags for premium prices, right?
Armchair taxonomy.

Would you like to go back to the time when 2 x 175w halide setups were $1,000 and the highest Kelvin rating was 6500K?

Would you like to go back to the frustration of not being able to keep any stoney coral for more than a few months, and not know why? The only corals you can keep alive are brown button polyps and mushrooms. Yellow polyps were your most colorful coral.

How about having all your organisms and drygoods being available only through the LFS or a mail order company that sends out one catalog a year.

:D

Bcollins111900

08/04/2006, 10:01 PM

And to think Non-Indo Acan Lord Colonys in Australia go for the price of pulsing xenia here in the US.

gflat65

08/04/2006, 11:57 PM

I did a little background on the one I posted and it is the same as Jendub's Strawberry Shortcake, if that helps placement at all.

JenDub

08/06/2006, 12:27 AM

Who told you that?

gflat65

08/06/2006, 09:25 AM

The Strawberry Shortcake? I don't want to mention his name on the boards, but I'll PM you his name. He got his from the supplier you got yours from at the same time, I believe.

marillion

08/06/2006, 07:42 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7879125#post7879125 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
Are you serious?!!!
You're saying you can sit there and tell people where their corals come from just by looking at pictures?
I currently hate the state of this hobby. Let me guess, you probably sell a lot of "non-indo" frags for premium prices, right?
Armchair taxonomy.

Nope, I don't. I don't sell frags at all, save for a couple I threw on eBay to see what they'd do. Not worth it. I trade when I can, and have been doing that more frequently lately.

Any non-scientist practices 'armchair taxonomy' so I'm not sure where you're coming from there.

..and no, not 'corals'...but I certainly believe I can tell where your acan lord comes from (or doesn't come from), which was my point to begin with.

Thanks for the attack, tho...I appreciate it.

Peace,

Chip

isjg

08/07/2006, 03:05 AM

Here's my only colony at the mo' (My others didn't survive a topup failure while on holiday.) -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/isjg/IMGP1450.jpg

Can't get a better pic as it's right at the back of the tank. As I'm in Australia it has to be non-indo (unless there's some smuggling going on)

These were my other now defunct non-indo lords -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/isjg/Pics/Acans5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/isjg/Pics/acans.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/isjg/Pics/Acans2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/isjg/Pics/Acans3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/isjg/Pics/LPS1.jpg

Not sure if that last one was a lord or another Acan sp. Anyhow, the most noticeable thing is that the polyp shape seems to be more irregular than indo lords, imo.

RandyO

08/07/2006, 09:07 AM

Thanks for sharing your Acans isjg.

I've noticed a lot of Australian Acans have that white fringe to the polyps.

Sangogo

08/07/2006, 09:44 AM

Pardon my ignorance, but are non-Indo breeds supposed to be better or something? I would think that even in Japan, we get in quite a few Indonesian breeds, since it is far less protected than the stuff from Okinawa/Izu.

Since I had credit leftover at a store for a bad shipment, I picked up one of these. http://www.petballoon.co.jp/item/viewItem.php?prm=CE028 What is this called in English? (We call it a kikumeishi in Japanese)

DonavonsReef

08/07/2006, 10:03 AM

Considering in the U.S. non-indo is supposed to be the only ones we can get in the United States. When ones from Japan make it into the counrty they fetch a much higher price, that & most acans from Japan have crazy color morphs for the most part.

jasutton

08/07/2006, 10:59 AM

Looks like a favites to me...could be wrong though

isjg

08/07/2006, 11:22 AM

The Japanese one looks like a Platygyra sp. to me.

Underwaterparadise

08/08/2006, 09:09 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7894054#post7894054 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by isjg
The Japanese one looks like a Platygyra sp. to me.

I agree.

Don't sweat the attack Chip people just need to put a little more thought into things before posting ;)

smp

08/10/2006, 01:07 PM

I just think it's a total fabrication and a fantasy to tell people where their acans come from without knowing where they were shipped from. The pros will side with me on this, read the articles.
I just despise all the 'coral snobbery' that goes on. A pretty coral is a pretty coral no matter where it comes from.

And about the "non indo" stuff .. Anthony Calfo had this to say about it:

"Acans" listed as "not Indo." Hmmm… that's odd. What does "not Indo" really mean? It begs the questions of where they came from, and why not tell us? If it was simply some other legal exporting country, then why not say so? Or is there some not-so-coincidental correlation to the formerly touted Japanese Acanthastrea that "disappeared" when the rumor got around that law enforcement was looking for poachers? Apparently, a number of corals were illegally exported from Japan under other names (Favites chinensis and Goniatsrea pectinata) that were indeed Acanthastrea. Because of the huge sums of money involved in this confiscated collection and continued plans to continue the illegal profit-making venture, investigations are currently underway (Borneman pers. comms). It seems the conspiracy now extends back to the countries of origin where some traders are getting quite rich while collectors still get a few pennies for collecting the same "closed brain corals" they always have been collecting. Not surprisingly, poachers have continued to bring in shipments of illegally obtained specimens under such guises as Blastomussa. The smuggled corals are so profitable that it is worth using couriers to carry small quantities from Japan among personal belongings! So the marketing game has now changed, and some of those "Acans" labeled as "not-Indo" do look remarkably similar to those Japanese "Acans" offered previously. Again, it does beg the question.

RandyO

08/11/2006, 03:02 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7914284#post7914284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp

I just despise all the 'coral snobbery' that goes on. A pretty coral is a pretty coral no matter where it comes from.

If you ask me, I only see one snob in this thread.

zeppelin

08/11/2006, 09:12 PM

And that quote by Calfo is actually PROVING the point. There IS a difference, and some are far more diffucult to obtain. I just traded with Marillion for a frag of the green 'non-indo' he posted at the beginning of the thread, and next to my 6 different indo morphs, you can definitely tell the difference.

coralcutie

08/12/2006, 05:38 AM

here are some to share, they are huge now, close to a half dollar sized polyphttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/coralcutie/greenringacan.jpghttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/coralcutie/martiangreensmaller.jpghttp://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/coralcutie/acan1.jpg

coralcutie

08/12/2006, 05:51 AM

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7892735#post7892735 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by isjg
[B]Here's my only colony at the mo' (My others didn't survive a topup failure while on holiday.) -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/isjg/IMGP1450.jpg

Can't get a better pic as it's right at the back of the tank. As I'm in Australia it has to be non-indo (unless there's some smuggling going on)

Those are incredible!!!!

marillion

08/12/2006, 10:34 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7918838#post7918838 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RandyO
If you ask me, I only see one snob in this thread.

You outed me! ;)

Peace,

Chip :D

marillion

08/12/2006, 10:35 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7923528#post7923528 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zeppelin
And that quote by Calfo is actually PROVING the point. There IS a difference, and some are far more diffucult to obtain. I just traded with Marillion for a frag of the green 'non-indo' he posted at the beginning of the thread, and next to my 6 different indo morphs, you can definitely tell the difference.

So you got the corals okay, Larry? Good...I was wondering. :)

Peace,

Chip

marillion

08/12/2006, 10:36 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7925047#post7925047 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralcutie
here are some to share, they are huge now, close to a half dollar sized

Those are all killer morphs...just awesome!

Thanks for sharing!

Peace,

Chip

zeppelin

08/12/2006, 01:01 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7925773#post7925773 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marillion
So you got the corals okay, Larry? Good...I was wondering. :)

Peace,

Chip

Yep, sure did. They are looking good. ;) How are the Blue Kiss Zoanthids doing?

Al G Blenny

08/12/2006, 01:32 PM

I have to point out to all of the eco-snobs that some may be illegal but do you know why? It's not because of them being endangered. If that were the case most of us would be all over these threads flaming the people posting them. If I'm not mistaken they are only illegal to be shipped here because certain countries are not Cites complient. To come onto a thread where others are enjoying nice pictures of corals and tell them that they are wrong for saying the colors are better from certain regions is pretty lame. Why do you feel the need to do that? This is a community forum and people here are a community. Try to not be a weekend activist here. If you think it is so horrible that others believe "non-indo" lords to have a greater variety than indo. lords go buy all the indos and post in another thread about how great they are. Don't bash others for liking something else.

Al G Blenny

08/12/2006, 01:39 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7914284#post7914284 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smp
I just think it's a total fabrication and a fantasy to tell people where their acans come from without knowing where they were shipped from. The pros will side with me on this, read the articles.
I just despise all the 'coral snobbery' that goes on. A pretty coral is a pretty coral no matter where it comes from.

And about the "non indo" stuff .. Anthony Calfo had this to say about it:

I wish people would not quote people like Calfo as if what they say is gospel. In my opinion some of these "gurus" have become jaded. They have been in the hobby a long time and have seen a lot of the bad parts of it. They don't know how to enjoy it anymore. It seems like the more they say (type) the more they dislike most of this hobby. Everytime I see Calfo or Borneman quoted it is to bash something in the hobby. When is the last time you saw a Calfo quote that said something positive? Stop hating your hobby.

zeppelin

08/12/2006, 02:16 PM

Very well said.........in both posts.

If some of us choose to obtain the more difficult to come by morphs and corals, whether it be due to locality or color morph, and think they are worth more to possess, so be it.

To me its like saying all vettes are the same. When in fact, there is a CHEvette, and a CORvette. A Z06 for me please. ;)

coralcutie

08/12/2006, 04:24 PM

one more

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a74/coralcutie/17-sockeyesalmoncolonypicture.jpg

apex003

08/12/2006, 07:01 PM

not sure if she qualifies, but here's mine...

http://www.mytankpics.com/tanks/albums/userpics/10019/IMG_2171edit.jpg

downset

08/12/2006, 11:41 PM

Nice Looking corals guys

All Delight

08/13/2006, 01:23 AM

those are nice apex

marillion

08/13/2006, 06:46 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7926436#post7926436 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zeppelin
Yep, sure did. They are looking good. ;) How are the Blue Kiss Zoanthids doing?

Well, for the two days I enjoyed them before I left for NY, just great!

:)

I'll be home on the 21st, so I'll bet there'll be a couple baby polyps by then.

Peace,

Chip

zeppelin

08/13/2006, 06:58 AM

Thats right. Forgot you were leaving on vacation. Hope youre having some fun.

Nice acans everyone. :)

apex003

08/13/2006, 04:39 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7929629#post7929629 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by All Delight
those are nice apex

Gracie... I've been waiting a long time to be able to post something in an acan thread. :) I just got them yesterday and didn't have to pay an arm & leg...

smp

08/13/2006, 09:39 PM

There are a lot of internet specialists that type things up as if they were fact. You may or may not know what you're talking about, but to the 1000 newbies who are going to look at this thread, it's gospel. I'm just very suspicious of things that are stated as fact on internet message board, please understand my apprehension. This is how so much misinformation and hype gets around on the net and it just frustrates me. You say you can tell what corals are from where but don't really specify how except that non-indo are so much nicer... Japanese are different than Australian how? I'de like to know!

Sorry for derailing the thread and coming off like a rabid weekend activist. Keep the pics coming I'm sure lots are enjoying them .. I am.

SPStoner

08/13/2006, 09:59 PM

Not sure about origin on any of these, but me likee!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/SPStoner/DSCN3218.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/SPStoner/DSCN3224.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/SPStoner/DSCN3182.jpg

RandyO

08/13/2006, 10:39 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7934077#post7934077 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SPStoner
Not sure about origin on any of these, but me likee!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/SPStoner/DSCN3218.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/SPStoner/DSCN3224.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/SPStoner/DSCN3182.jpg

The first one does not look like a typical Indo lord, but the other two do. Nice pieces.

I recognize the giant polyp on the left in the first pic. :)

sportsguy247

08/13/2006, 11:22 PM

I know there micro's but still nice
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/sportsguy247/micro1.jpg
<br>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/sportsguy247/e73ad95d.jpg
<br>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/sportsguy247/000_0005.jpg

sportsguy247

08/13/2006, 11:32 PM

Pink:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/sportsguy247/pinklord.jpg

ReefDoctorMicromussas

08/14/2006, 01:35 AM

Just like at a fireworks show I catch myself

"OOOhhhhh! AAAhhhhhh! woooowww AAAhhhhh"

RandyO

08/14/2006, 12:11 PM

This looks like a lord to me.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/sportsguy247/e73ad95d.jpg

If you grew it from one polyp, most of the polyps would then be juveniles, and smaller in size. It takes about a year for a lord polyp to turn into a full size adult. Juveniles have a lot of red in them. As they grow larger, they grow into their gray. Some of your older polyps are just about there.

I'd guess that you have this morph.
http://users.adelphia.net/~randyolszewski/images/Acanth_closeup.jpg
http://users.adelphia.net/~randyolszewski/images/Acanth_closeupclosed.jpg

Probably the most passed around Acan lord in the country.
Give that piece a few more months and regular feedings, and the polyps will blow up for you.

marillion

08/14/2006, 01:52 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7936877#post7936877 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RandyO
Probably the most passed around Acan lord in the country.

Oh yeah??? Where's mine???

:p :D

Just kiddin', bud. End of September okay? ;)

Peace,

Chip

tnyr5

08/17/2006, 12:27 AM

how about some pics of indo and non - indo side by side so everyone can get a clear look at the difference?

heuerfan

08/18/2006, 08:37 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7893447#post7893447 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RandyO
Thanks for sharing your Acans isjg.

I've noticed a lot of Australian Acans have that white fringe to the polyps.

Nice lords everyone, here are my Aussie Lords.

http://f10.putfile.com/7/18400225016-thumb.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=2946812)

http://f10.putfile.com/7/18400212177-thumb.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=2946799)

ReefDoctorMicromussas

08/18/2006, 08:52 AM

Those are gorgeous! heuerfan :)
I have seen them before I think? But they have grown... The white rimmed acans I have NEVER seen anyone else have

heuerfan

08/18/2006, 08:58 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7963999#post7963999 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by doctor64776
Those are gorgeous! heuerfan :)
I have seen them before I think? But they have grown... The white rimmed acans I have NEVER seen anyone else have

Thanks Doctor, those Aussies are my prized pieces the rest are indos :) Unfortunately i'm having problems with the white/red/green center. The green center has faded and turned red, very little trace of green. Some say because of the high temperature of my tank 82-84 (summer time :() and some say because of lighting. I'm hoping the green center will come back winter time.

marillion

08/18/2006, 10:07 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964024#post7964024 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
Thanks Doctor, those Aussies are my prized pieces the rest are indos :) Unfortunately i'm having problems with the white/red/green center. The green center has faded and turned red, very little trace of green. Some say because of the high temperature of my tank 82-84 (summer time :() and some say because of lighting. I'm hoping the green center will come back winter time.

...or you could send me some frags and I'll tell you if a constant 77 degrees brings the green center back.

It'll be a fun experiment! You send me some Aussie lord frags, and I do all the work! :p ;) :D

Peace,

Chip

heuerfan

08/18/2006, 10:09 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964352#post7964352 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marillion
...or you could send me some frags and I'll tell you if a constant 77 degrees brings the green center back.

It'll be a fun experiment! You send me some Aussie lord frags, and I do all the work! :p ;) :D

Peace,

Chip

LOL, i may consider if you send me a frag of toxic.............. :D

Eric Boerner

08/18/2006, 03:51 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7923528#post7923528 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zeppelin
And that quote by Calfo is actually PROVING the point. There IS a difference, and some are far more diffucult to obtain. I just traded with Marillion for a frag of the green 'non-indo' he posted at the beginning of the thread, and next to my 6 different indo morphs, you can definitely tell the difference.

So I have to ask then... Do you feel good knowing that you are trading in a black market, CITES restricted coral? Furthering black market trade?

You know what happens to collectors when they trace ivory from the source to the collector?

zeppelin

08/18/2006, 04:23 PM

Allot of skeletal corals require CITES permits to get in. Almost everything except soft corals, in fact. The restrictions on the Japanese and some other 'non indo' lords and other corals has little if anything to do with how 'rare' or protected they are. Its mostly due to US regulations regarding the import from the originating country. More to do with US politics than anything else. So, no, it doesn't bother me all that much. ;)

Chads29

08/18/2006, 11:25 PM

Just following allong :)

marillion

08/19/2006, 08:10 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7964365#post7964365 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by heuerfan
LOL, i may consider if you send me a frag of toxic.............. :D

...and that, ladies & gents, it's what's known as a 'done deal.'

You'll have PM when I get back to Myrtle Beach, my friend. :D

Peace,

Chip

marillion

08/19/2006, 08:10 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7968924#post7968924 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chads29
Just following allong :)

Chadly! Good to see you here, bud.

Post some pics of those new beauties you just received!

Peace,

Chip

marillion

08/19/2006, 08:11 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7966655#post7966655 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by zeppelin
Allot of skeletal corals require CITES permits to get in. Almost everything except soft corals, in fact. The restrictions on the Japanese and some other 'non indo' lords and other corals has little if anything to do with how 'rare' or protected they are. Its mostly due to US regulations regarding the import from the originating country. More to do with US politics than anything else. So, no, it doesn't bother me all that much. ;)

However, this begs the question...is a frag of a captive-grown colony originating from a frag of an 'illegal' coral *still* illegal?

Who would know such a thing? USF&W?

Peace,

Chip

55semireef

08/19/2006, 12:53 PM

Nice pictures guys.

Chads29

08/19/2006, 07:04 PM

Chip,

Soon buddy very soon!

I am waiting for my next shipment and then will "try" to get some decent pictures of them.

Chad

Chads29

08/19/2006, 07:06 PM

BTW, Thanks for the tip on the food. It is awesome and the Acan's seemed to love it!

canesfan44

08/19/2006, 07:23 PM

I need to get some of these non-indo's(especally those white-rimmed aussies), I have a decent amount of micro's but almost no acans(non-indo that is). I only have the bright green, and a few polyps of a nice orange colony that nearly died last year during one of the hurricanes(not sure which hurricane it was).

Eric Boerner

08/20/2006, 01:41 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7969842#post7969842 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marillion
However, this begs the question...is a frag of a captive-grown colony originating from a frag of an 'illegal' coral *still* illegal?

Who would know such a thing? USF&W?

Peace,

Chip

"IF" it was tracked from point of origin to shipper to retailer to collector and then fragged and traced to someone else. Everyone in that chain is guilty of black market trade of a threatened species, if they advertise, sell, and 'buy' knowing it comes from a non-permitting country.

Acanthastrea lordhowensis is listed as an appendix II CITES restricted coral, on all internation trade levels. That means exportation from all countries is strictly controlled through permits. However, Japan has specifically declined to allow any export permits for this species. Having one in your possession is a federal crime if its traced from an illegal export source.

US Customs are the watchdogs that are supposed to ensure that these don't get into the US. If someone is circumventing CITES permits in Japan and shipping these from Indonesia as a wholely different coral (an appendix III open brain coral for instance), customs arent going to know squat. US Customs won't have a clue what the difference between a Japanese Acan is and an Indo-pacific Acan or open brain coral is. But obviously the transhipper, reseller and buyer does. Not only is it unethical to contribute to the illegal trade of these species, it is a crime to knowingly receive one.

So yeah, there is a difference between them, and obviously the price is going to be higher, considering you're dealing in the "ivory" of the coral trade.

Sangogo

08/20/2006, 07:51 AM

I know that people have mentioned that they are relatively hard to find and more expensive, but it seems that a lot of people still seem to have them.

Besides questions of legality (you're not supposed to take the corals outside of the country, or even collect them domestically without a permit), you rarely see acans in stores here. Only sites online that list a huge collection on an "feel free to order, but expect to wait a long time" basis tend to have any. One LFS near me has one very beautiful acan, but it's in the "not for sale" tank.

Also, our acans are usually advertised not as "lordhowensis," but as other species. For example, I am thinking about buying this: http://www.petballoon.co.jp/item/viewItem.php?prm=CE046 and it is listed as "hillae." (I also suspect mislabelling in Japan when it comes to English names at times, but I am never sure what to think.)

However, following this thread has made me wonder whether the Acans that we buy in Japan are even Japanese Acans to begin with. I'm sure some of the illegally harvested floating around on our local Yahoo auctions are true Japanese acans, but I generally prefer to buy from people who can be held accountable. Most stores here don't list the origin of the piece, except sometimes you see, "Okinawa produced" stamped on a more expensive soft coral.

It doesn't seem to matter for most people here though.

GreshamH

08/20/2006, 01:40 PM

Eric, I though all corals were Appendix II? Got a link (specificaly to it, not CITES website in general ;) )

Eric Boerner

08/21/2006, 12:02 PM

All corals fall under Apendix II internationally, but many fall under Appendix III with quotas from Fiji and Indonesia, with Indonesia being the primary exporter with the highest quota availability.

If an Acan gets smuggled out of Japan via courier to Indonesia, and then gets permitted as Lobophyllia, no one in customs is going to know. An email is sent from the exporting party to the reseller and the price is jacked up on the piece. Exporter understands the risk they are taking, the reseller understands the risk they are taking, and the buyer should as well.

Chads29

08/21/2006, 02:55 PM

I buy corals because I like them and it is healthy so to say that the buyer should have risks is way out of line. If it is in this country no matter how it got here and is for sale the buyer's should not have any risk factor!

We all ready have to take risks of getting pests from some of the exporters who fail to treat for pest which are very easy and well known in the hobby and are easy to treat!

To say it is the hobbyist who should know where corals come from is wrong! If the coral is cool and you have the money why not buy it.

Compairing how few non indo acans are in this country to the ivory trade is just insane. That is like compairing a Cadillac to a Ferarri, they are both cars but not even close to be in the same class.

Chads29

08/21/2006, 02:58 PM

BTW, lets see get back on track and see some more sweet pics!

beerguy

08/21/2006, 05:13 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7982760#post7982760 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Chads29
To say it is the hobbyist who should know where corals come from is wrong! If the coral is cool and you have the money why not buy it.

Compairing how few non indo acans are in this country to the ivory trade is just insane. That is like compairing a Cadillac to a Ferarri, they are both cars but not even close to be in the same class.

So if you can afford it, it's not illegal? I don't understand how that works exactly. can you explain it to me please?

paininthewrasse

08/21/2006, 05:20 PM

lets see more pics.. and less discussion!! lol

Chads29

08/21/2006, 07:20 PM

How do we know how the coral made it into this country?

If it is all ready in this country and we can only guess how it was obtained wether shipped with the wrong idenentification or by growing out of live rock I don't see anything illegal about it.

My job as a consumer is to pay for the coral. Also to give the corals a happy home.

beerguy

08/21/2006, 07:44 PM

It's thinking like that that be the end of this hobby.

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