Berghia-aptasia eating nudibranches

[Stixbaraca]

Does anyone have these local that they can part with or rent out for a little while?

[nanoreef16g]

I'll keep an eye out.

[Marshall]

east coast aquatics is attempting to raise them... they have a tank full of them last time i was there.

[Stixbaraca]

Any idea what they were selling them for?

[Hoggn]

interested also...

[eastonreef]

me too......... hey hoggn if you get any let me know ..... i live very close to bethlehem and would appreciate combining orders with you

[Stixbaraca]

I was at ECA because I was driving by on Saturday...they don't have any.

I found someone on here who dropped me a line, and I am going to be trading for 2 or 3 for my tank.

The cheapest online vendor of them I found was here...

http://www.saltyunderground.com/

[eastonreef]

not a bad deal...... if we get an order of 30 shipping is free.....
is anyone interested and for how many

[coralnut99]

Count me in for 8.

[Hoggn]

I'll take 4... We are up to 12 so far! I'll hit other people up as well and add to this.

[eastonreef]

sounds good...

[coralnut99]

Any more porgress on this? Are we at 12 or more?

[Hoggn]

Bump back up to the top... I will be placing an order next friday no matter how many people join in. If interested please let me know. I will be ordering 4-6.

[eastonreef]

let me know how much they are .. i am probably interested... the joes juice and apstasia stop seem to be making mine larger.. :(

[fours2many]

I don't know how I would get them from you though.
I live in Northampton (close to Allentown). If we could work out an arrangment to get them, I am in for 6.

Thanks, Kristin

[fours2many]

I just saw you are from Bethlehem. That is great, put me in for 6. I know the price drops with the size of the order. Please let me know what I owe you and how you want to work this out .

Thanks, Kristin

[Marshall]

I will take 7. I live right in Philly (19104). I have a very mild infestation but it is growing (esp after I Joe's Juice apparently). Can someone get me mine down here? I guess this is a good opportunity to go meet coralnut99 at SF :)

[Hoggn]

Phrawd I work in Doylestown and we can meet somewhere around Willow Grove area if that helps or we can me at SF as well but then I would have to hold onto them until the weekend...

I will front the money and then people can pay as I deliver to them...

So far:

Hogg'n = 6
Eastonreef = ?
Fours2many = 6
Phrawd = 7


If we hit 30 we get free shipping if not we will spread out the cost of shipping... Either way I will place the order as the Apts are taking over my tank...

[GeorgeS069]

just an idea but,maybe you guys could talk to Todd at SF and see if he wants in on the order and he could hold them for everyone to pick-up
Maybe that would get you over the magic 30 and get free shipping.
I'm sure Todd would want a few to sell too :)

FYI I got rid of an aptasia outbreak just using a strong kalk mix injection on the lil buggers

[Hoggn]

good idea George. I'll ask Todd today when I stop by...

[GeorgeS069]

I have my moments :)
gotta catch me when I'm sober...LOL

[fours2many]

at something fishy for weeks to get these things in. Hopefully we can pull this together and get free shipping. If not, splitting the shipping isn't that bad.

Let us know what is up, OK?

Thanks again, Kristin

[poconofishy]

It is my understanding that these nudibraches only eat aiptasia. Once the aiptasia are gone this poor creature will quickly starve. If you buy one and pass it around you will save the lives of several nudibraches, and ruin the lives of several aiptasia. Please do a little reading before buying creature you will be unable to sustain.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/ac/feature/index.php

[coralnut99]

Yes! Yes! I'm in! At least 5. Something fishy works great for me.

[Marshall]

If we cannot get free shipping we can bill it to my FedEx account, there is a discount with it. HOggn if I don't meet up with coralnut99 we could def meet up near you. I can alwayz go to Frazer Zoo and I just heard of a good pizza joint up there. When are we looking at delivery for these guys?

[Marshall]

Also there is some "shipping sale" on phone orders only, has anyone figured out what this is??

[Hoggn]

I will call tomorrow to see what type of phone sale they have going on... I wanted to place the order on Friday and schedule delivery on the following Wednesday if that works for everybody... Or I can see about Saturday delivery if they offer that... I will call tomorrow and check out the options and report back...

[poconofishy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8255636#post8255636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phrawd
I will take 7. I live right in Philly (19104). I have a very mild infestation but it is growing (esp after I Joe's Juice apparently). Can someone get me mine down here? I guess this is a good opportunity to go meet coralnut99 at SF :)

You realize these Berghia-aptasia eating nudibranches eat only aiptasia. They will eat nearly one aiptasia per day. After a few days without aiptasia they will die from starvation. Calfo states hundreds of anemones will be needed to support a single pair of Berghia for the first few months". If you only have a very mild infestation you will be knowly killing these creatures. You would be better off buying a half a dozen peppermint shrimp. With six peppermint shrimp most likely one of them would find aiptasia an appealing meal. I have had individual peppermint shrimp who will not eat aiptasia, but I have had several others who will. You may have to reduce feeding temporarily in order for the aiptasia to be an appealing meal for the peppermint shrimp, but afterward they can be easily sustain with flake food. You should be able to get two peppermint shrimp (sf price $7.45) for the price of one berghia ($15.00). Get 14 peppermint shrimp (that you can feed) to take care of your aiptasia and instead of 7 berghia who will stave once the aiptasia is gone. Be a conscientious marine aquarist.



Inland Aquatics Guide to Controlling Aiptasia Anemones
by Morgan Lidster - Inland Aquatics

One of the most common problems affecting captive reef systems is the proliferation of anemones of the genus Aiptasia.

These anemones are very hearty and employ pedal laceration, a strategy in which small daughter clones separate from the foot of the mother animal, to reproduce extremely quickly. Attempts to remove or kill the anemones are seldom successful, as each animal removed leaves a ring of daughter anemones behind.

As such, removal of Aiptasia is best performed by one of their natural predators. Inland Aquatics has used Peppermint Shrimp, Butterflyfish (Usually the Raccoon or Copperband Butterflyfish) and Berghia verrucicornis, a Nudibranch, to remove Aiptasia. Each is discussed below.

“Peppermint Shrimp”

“Peppermint Shrimp” is used to refer to at least three different species of small cleaner shrimp. Generally speaking, Lysmata wurdemanni are the better Aiptasia eaters and are less likely to bother other reef inhabitants. Each shrimp is different, but we find cultured L. wurdemanni perform better than wild ones.

Unfortunately, even the very best Anemone eating shrimp prefer other foods to Aiptasia, especially the large ones. Peppermint Shrimp can be used in a new tank, before animals are added; however, they are seldom effective in an established reef, as there is plenty of other things for them to eat. Placing several shrimp in a small bare tank with Aiptasia infested rock is the most effective approach. Replace clean rock with infested rock until the anemones are gone.

Butterflyfishes

Several species of butterfly fishes will eat Aiptasia. Unfortunately, they will also eat other corals, zooanthids, anemones and tube worms. We prefer to use the Raccoon Butterfly, Chaetodon lanula, or the Copperband Butterfly, Chelmon rostratus. Copperbands have a snout that allows them to get to more anemones; however, Raccoons will seldom bother reef inhabitants until all the Aiptasia are gone, making them the fish of choice for most applications.

Butterfly fishes less than 3.5” in length are seldom effective Aiptasia eaters. Once “trained”, Raccoons will usually eat anemones off of rocks held in the tank with them. Raccoons used in our facility get used to being moved from tank to tank and will begin feeding immediately after a move. They’re very effective!

Butterflyfishes have their limitations. Copperbands are most thorough; however, none of the species are capable of getting all the Aiptasia out of the cracks and crevices. More importantly, all of the Butterflies are likely sufferers of Post-Traumatic Shipping Disorder (PTSD). Only purchase these animals once they’ve been in a dealers tank for at least six weeks. Inland offers quarantined and “trained” animals.

Aiptasia Eating Nudibranchs (Berghia verrucicornis)

Adding nudibranchs smaller than half an inch to your tank is not recommended! In fact, I recommend that you keep your Berghia, regardless of their size, in a Mason jar for at least a couple of days. There are several reasons for this:

1) Even breeder size B. verrucicornis are small. They are also nocturnal and well camouflaged, making them very difficult to keep track of in even the smallest aquarium.

2) Jars are great for the nudibranchs; a good place to recover from shipping. Don't worry that they will be uncomfortable in such a small volume of non-filtered/aerated water. Inland's broodstock nudibranchs live their entire lives in 250 and 500 ml beakers with no water movement!

3) Nudibranchs begin laying eggs at a size of about a half inch in length. If you keep them long enough to harvest some egg strands, you'll have a chance to raise some more AIPTASIA EATING MACHINES.

4) These little buggers ain’t cheap! Don't you think you'd like to see them in action a time or two before you release them into the great unknown?!

5) If you succeed in reproducing your nudis, you can convert your AIPTASIA into CASH! The demand for Berghia far exceeds the current supply. Inland is always looking for cultured Berghai and your reef keeping buddies and local fish stores (LFS) likely are too!

If that's not enough to convince you to hold onto your nudis for awhile, follow these...

INSTRUCTIONS FOR PLACING BERGHIA IN THE AQUARIUM

1) Nudis should not be added to a reef tank until they are over half an inch in length. Even at that size, Butterflies and Peppermint Shrimp may be able to eat them.

2) Berghia are nocturnal and prefer subdued flow. It is best to add them with the lights off and place them in minimal flow. POWERHEADS EAT NUDIBRANCHS!

3) Refugia are ideal for nudi placement! Move a continuous supply of AIPTASIA to the refugium to keep your "breeders" fat and prolific. Larvae will migrate and go to work on AIPTASIA in other parts of the system. If traumatic pumps interfere, move some of the juveniles manually.

4) Be careful not to drop your nudis on Aiptasia when adding them to your tank. When given the chance, AIPTASIA EAT BERGHIA. The nudis make their living by sneaking up on their prey. A small pipette is great for moving the animals. Break off the tip for larger adults. Be gentle.

5) The best thing to do when the nudis arrive from Inland is to remove the cap on the shipping vial and place it on/against rock or the side of the aquarium. Leave the vial in the tank until they crawl out on their own. (They will do so more quickly in the dark.)

HOLDING BERGHIA IN JARS

A little preparation will greatly increase your chances of successfully rearing some nudi hatchlings. Aiptasia reproduce most prolifically when left in the dark, especially in regard to the tiny anemones required for young post larvae.



1) A WEEK OR TWO BEFORE YOU INTEND TO RECEIVE YOUR ORDER, Collect a dozen or more large Aiptasia and place them in two Mason jars with water from your system. Be careful not to add much anemone slime as this may cause water quality problems. Plastic pipettes are great for collecting Aiptasia!

2) Mark the water line on the side of each jar with a Sharpie.

3) Cover the jars with a very loose lid.

4) Place the jars in a cabinet or some other very dark place with a relatively stable temperature.

5) Top the cultures off with fresh water each week to keep the level at the fill line.

6) Upon arrival, place the new Berghia in one of the jars. The other is to be used as a reservoir for feeder Aiptasia.

© 2000 #reefs - www.reefs.org

[coralnut99]

Poconofishy, I have 4 separate and distinct systems. One is a severely infested 125 that will keep 4 nudis happy for a long long time. Quite possibly perpetually. A second system is well on its' way to the same state. I've tried kalk paste numerous times. When the infestation is bad enough, it's just not even close to a permanent fix. Peppermints aren't a sure thing either (tried them too), and cause problems of their own. There is more than one species, and some individuals will become downright predatory. I was in a LFS about a month ago, and watched as a really good size peppermint just wrestled an astrea off of a rock and sat his bad self down to a hearty meal.
I fully sympathize with the idea of being concientious about the organisms we bring into our homes. But these guys are captive-raised. There is no impact to the ecosystem they are native to, and at least in my case have a better than average chance or actually propogating an flourishing. I'm not that proud of that, but I've battled aptasia in one of my 125's for almost 2 years now, and I just don't see another or better way.

[Hoggn]

PoconoFishy please refrain from posting in my thread unless you plan on buying some... Thank you!

[Hoggn]

I emailed Todd about the groupl buy and this is what he said:


Kevin,

I do have a supplier for Berghia. Let me know how many you need and I'll see what I can do on the price.


Todd
Something Fishy
www.toofishy.com

[Marshall]

Since the post was directed specifically at me I'll say something about it ( I wrote a post to his original 'warning' but wised up and didn't post it). Anyways, peppermint shrimp don't work for me. I just added 4 of them a month or two ago. They are still around and the aips are spreading. This is the fifth time I have tried peppermint shrimp in my tank or friends' and they simply don't work for us. They are true peppermint shrimp too.

Also they can eat your other corals and I have a sensitive fish that I cannot / do not want to starve so the pepps will eat the aips (a regal angel). I will happily pass these critters along to anyone that needs them when I'm done with them. I ordered 7 and I have a 150 gallon tank so I am not getting more than I need, in fact not nearly what the recommended # is. I appreciate your regard for the hobby and animals' lives, however, your energy is better spent elsewhere. As previously posted, these are captive raised and have a minimal impact on the eco system. I don't advocate their demise but this hobby is plagued with death and I will do my best to avoid it for these guys as I would the rest of my livestock.

Best wishes, Marshall

[eastonreef]

i am in for 4

[Hoggn]

Ok with eastonreef we are at 23. I will ask Todd to order 26 and I will offer to buy the rest that don't sell so he will not be stuck with the last 3 if we can't get anybody else to buy in. I will post his reply when I get it...

[fours2many]

Thank you for the time you have spent setting this up. When they come in do we get them from Todd or you? Something fishy is only open on the weekends, so will delivery be on the weekend?

Hey, Thanks Again!!!!

Kristin

[Jay4Robin]

I will take one if you have an extra.

[Hoggn]

Angelo & Kevin,

I have 50 Berghia on order, they will be here in 2 weeks.
The price is $15.00 ea. for the group buy. We usually sell them for $20.

I just need to know if one person will be picking up all of the orders or if
each person will be coming in for their own order.

Todd

Something Fishy
www.toofishy.com

[Phyto]

Lisa and Kevin at the Saltyunderground are great. I have ordered twice from them.

[Marshall]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8271763#post8271763 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Jay4Robin
I will take one if you have an extra.
You should get at least 2 so you hope that they breed otherwise it really is just a waste, they don't live very long even when they are fed. Also are they going to be acclimated in SF's system in which case should we wait to pick them up so they aren't in too many systems too fast?

[Stixbaraca]

Wow...not sure about the group order, but I will be stopping in at SF to buy one fo these!

[Hoggn]

That's fine. I just ask that they be picked up on the weekend after they come in if they want the group buy price. I only have a few aiptasia to feed them and don't want them to starve. Also, if anyone can't pick them up, we can ship them via ground.


Todd
Something Fishy
www.toofishy.com


I will provide a list to Todd if we can all agree to pick them up in his store... If some Philly people need I can pick them up for them and then meet in the Willow Grove area for them to pick them up from me. I will not be able to get to SF until 4pm on Saturday so the drop off would be later towards evening...

Let me know what we are going to do and I will let Todd know. The least we can do is stop by the store and help support him for helping us with the group buy...

[Jay4Robin]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8285214#post8285214 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phrawd
You should get at least 2 so you hope that they breed otherwise it really is just a waste, they don't live very long even when they are fed. Also are they going to be acclimated in SF's system in which case should we wait to pick them up so they aren't in too many systems too fast?

Breed?? Hey its a Rated G tank:eek:

I will pick up 2 when they arrive.

[Hoggn]

Hogg'n = 6
Eastonreef = 4
Fours2many = 6
Phrawd = 7
Jay4Robin= 2


That is 25 so far... Please respond and let me know how you want to get them.

Pick up at SF.
have SF mail them out.
Meet me in Willow Grove....

[coralnut99]

I'm in for 5. I'll pick up at SF.

[eastonreef]

i will pick up at sf....... will it be this weekend??

thanks to hoggn and todd for getting this to happen.......i agree with supporting something fishy -- it is a great place to shop ...
if my husband knew just how much i supported sf,, he would try to claim todd as a dependent on our taxes.... :)

[coralnut99]

Todd said 2 weeks, so I'm thinking they will be there for 10/14 & 15. Do I have it right?

[fours2many]

I will pick mine up from something fishy.
Do we give you our names or just our Reef Central name?

Thank you for doing this.

Looks like we have hit our 30 with coralnut99 taking 5.

Kristin

[fours2many]

Please let us know that date of pick up. 2 weeks is to vague. Since it is already Friday, this could be 10/14 or 10/21.

Thanks, Kristin

[Jay4Robin]

willowgrove please PM me and I will set up a time and give you my number thank you

[Hoggn]

PM me your real name along with your screen name and I will email Todd a list of people who will pick them up. Try to include if you will pick them up on a Sat. or Sun. Todd was not specific on the date he just said in about 2 weeks. I'm guessing they will arrive during the week in a shipment and he will call me and let me know when they arrive. Please provide a phone number on your PM to me as well so I can call everybody when they arrive....

[Hoggn]

Update: I guess I should check my email first....

OK, the Berghia will be here next Friday. Just let everyone know they can pick them up next weekend. Oct 21 & 22.

Todd
Something Fishy
www.toofishy.com



Please let me know what day you will pick them up on your email to me...

[Hoggn]

Bump!

[Hoggn]

Just got back from SF and Todd let me know that they will arrive next weekend 10-14-06. Please let me know all your names so I can let Todd know. If not you will pay more for them.


Kevin...

[Hoggn]

I just got home from picking mine up and I'm in process of drip acclimating them right now. I'm not sure who all picked theirs up already but Todd said that most did... Cool!

[coralnut99]

Just got home with mine. I was there at 4pm and it didn't look like there were many left at all.

[Hoggn]

I was there at 4:30 today until 5:10...

[coralnut99]

Uh...lemme think........Black t-shirt?

[Hoggn]

Green pocket T... Shorter and younger then the guy in black.

[Hoggn]

Seems I can't post pics anymore!

[eastonreef]

i picked mine up .... hope they work :)