Surge set up recommendations.

[SERVO]

OK, so I need some advice here;

I am putting together my frag system. I have decided for flow that I would like to use Borneman's toilet flapper surge design for flow. I have a prop tank that is 40X24X9 (water depth)=45.9 gallons. I have a DSP for the drain. First, do you think that a surge set up will affect my DSP function, and second, what percentage of volume would you recommend that I use. I was thinking that 25% would be a pretty good surge. I am plumming the system into the main display, but I am going to run the surge from the prop tank. (my pump will carry water to the elevated container and redistribute the water back into the prop tank). I am in the process of getting the stand designed and need to decide what size container to use. I thought about just cheaply using a rubbermaid container, but I think that I am going to get an acrylic box made up. That way I'll be able to visually inspect the surge box. Here is another picture of the prop tank with the durso and egg crate installed.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a12/ryanreeves/P6110001.jpg

[HippieSmell]

25% will be a massive surge, just make sure the stand is very stable because it will create some side to side forces. The Borneman device is a major PITA when dealing with surges over 2 gallons IME; the force on the flapper is tremendous. Honestly, don't do this if you don't have some time to mess around with it. I had 2 on my tank, now it's down to one and it isn't even working properly right now. Do yourself a favor and use an actuated ball valve with a relay and some float switches. It will work much better from what I understand. HTH

[CyclistMT]

Servo, I agree with HP on 25% being a massive surge. I'm trying to work out a surge for my new tank (150g 48x32x24) and have done some proof of concept testing with a 5 gal bucket. I plan on using 2 buckets on alternating cycles because of the width of the tank and with the little bit of testing I've done, I'm confident that a 4 gal surge will be plenty at one time. I will be supplementing this with a closed loop though, so take that into consideration.

Here is a good thread I've referenced many times. Silent Surge Device (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=4116486) It does offer adivce on how to manage the "flapping flapper".

I'm currently working with this style of flush drain. Mansfield Flush Valve (http://plumbing.hardwarestore.com/51-291-flush-valves/watersaver-plastic-flush-valve-648702.aspx) (I found mine at Home Depot) It doesn't use a flapper and I'm hopeful because of the way it seals that backsurge won't cause it to open. I think removing all the bubbles from the surge using this valve may be problematic though. Perhaps that's not an issue to you.

I haven't finished building my tank yet so I'm far from an actual tank test but I thought I'd pass along the idea and the link. Good luck!

[SERVO]

Thanks so much guys! Great advice. I am using a iron stand, so I am pretty confident that will be ok. Maybe I could use two alternating surge "buckets" but I only want one pump. I'll have to figure out how to plumb that one. Is that chapter written in Reef tank plumbing for dummies?:lol:

[SERVO]

Hey Hippiesmell,

Is this what I would use for an A.B.V.?

http://assuredautomation.com/101/index.php

What are the odds of this failing?

[HippieSmell]

Well, those are plated brass, you should get one made of PVC. From what I've read, the longevity of these valves are on the order of years.

[SERVO]

Well, Yah, I know I'd get plastic. Any idea of any vendors/manufactures? Thanks for the info.

[HippieSmell]

I don't really have a recommendation for manufacturer. I'd get the cheapest one, since they are all going to cost at least a couple hundred dollars for a 2" valve.

[SERVO]

OUCH!!!! I think I'll go with the toilet flapper!!!!

[HippieSmell]

Well, good luck with the flapper. It was just a massive headache for me. You probably will get it to work, but mine always broke every month or so.

[SERVO]

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!!!! I checked on some prices and a two way acctuated PVC ball valve runs from 1/2 diameter at $575 up to $647 for a 2 inch!!! Three way valves are even more.

$200 dollars looks like a steal. There is NO way I could use something like that with a price tag like that. I'd just rather throw 2 6100's in there.

[HippieSmell]

Yeah, they can be really expensive, hence the reason why I don't have one. I believe there are cheaper ones, and used ones, but those are hard to find.