My Kingdom for a Hair Algae Solution

[slavearm]

Never ever had a problem with hair algae until after my crash in february.

Tank is completely healthy now, and the hair is the only remaining issue from the crash.

Here is what I have tried.

1. Manual Removal
2. Green Emerald Crab
3. Starry Blenny
4. Ozone
5. Skimming Wet as Hell and replacing salt water daily
6. Lighting Refugium 24 hours instead of reverse cycle to help the cheato compete.

My water is supa clear now though hahahaha I mean really clear. I mean I can see through all 6' of the tank to the other side and it is still....... clear.

So uh... I hear naso's or tuxedo urchins do the trick... anyone want to trade a taeneti tang for a naso, or what other options should I consider? Better lighting for the refugium? Help please... I beg of you... no really I'll beg... seriously.... this sucks... 3 months battling and reading.... so... yah... help.... please... thanks.

[Mchava]

here is what I would look into to start. How is your RO/di unit doing. When I first set up my 90 I had lots of problems with hairy algae. What I noticed was that my ro/di unit was not working correctly, once I got it working againg it started to go away little by little. Now it all gone.

[pledosophy]

High nitrates lead to hair algae.

You could trade your macro's to one that is more fast growing to consume more nutrients. Chaeto i great for pods but nothing beats green grape caulphera for nutrient export.

You could cut down your feedings.

Increase your flow.

Look into different biological situations. Herbivorous tangs are great, as well as seahares, and nudibranches.

You can also cut back your light cycle.

[bergzy]

hmmm...hair algae...

one word...yuck!

here is what i did to combat my outbreaks of hair algae...

- use nothing but ro/di with zero tds for fw top off.
- make sure bulbs are not too old and putting out, what i call, the algae spectrum
- rinse off any frozen food before feeding
- yeah, why not, water changes with ro/di for salt water mix
- max out your refugium macro growth (ime chaeto grows the fastest)
- tangs, urchins, crabs etc will remove the hair which is great but it doesnt solve the underlying problem why the hair is growing. the critters that eat the hair, ummm, poop out stuff that makes hair grow.
- very wet skimming is also a big plus
- ozone helped me a lot with nuisance algae

but the biggest thing to abate hair algae and other nusiance algae is to get your phosphates low....wayyyyyyy low!

phosban, rowaphos...are good methods to lower this nutrient.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2002/chem.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

now...

about that kingdom! ;):);)

[smoney]

My hair algae got out of control, mostly because of neglect one time. But here is what I did:

- Water changes frequently, like 50% weekly when I had the hair algae
- lights were on for about 3-4 hours
- scrubbed the rock with a touthbrush(not mine, but a new one just for the tank)
- Hermit crabs, I got a bunch of them to take care of the places I missed, then when the problem went away I took out the hermit crabs.

It is because of high nitrates, maybe not good enough filtration, possibly a better skimmer would help.


Nowadays, I have two tangs, hippo blue and yellow tang, and two urchins, pink pincushion and a longspine to take care of my algae. I also have like 6 zebra hermits and 6 margarita snails. My 50 gallon reef looks like the best it has ever been.

[slavearm]

I am using AWI's neptune and monitor the RO/DI output weekly... never goes about 0 TDS.

Skimmer is a recirc modded ASM G4x.

Do 30 gallon water changes bi-weekly (~180G Total volume)

Dosing Kalk from Kalk Reactor nightly

Bulbs are Phoenix 14K about 8 Months old
2 T5 Giessman Actinic Bulbs 1 month old each.

Flow is Panworld 50 PX-x for return and 2 tunze 6100s (if this is a problem I need to be shot)

Okay so here is my plan then:

1. My nitrates show really low, but I will try vacuuming the sump and sand next time I do a water change.. (probably this weekend)

2. Restock my hermit crab/margarita snail population

3. Update my refugium lighting (anyone got cheap 24" T5s for sale? 6500 bulbs baby!)

4. Can't lower lighting... my SPS would shoot me

5. Phosban.... yah why not... its cheap and good ? Anyone got a spare reactor lying around they want to sell?

6. Add second chamber to Ca Reactor to increase PH level

7. My final super mega attack break down and put an urchin or sea hare in my tank. Meh.


Thanks for all the suggestions.

[JenDub]

I would recommend:

New MH bulbs
Blow your rocks off twice weekly with a turkey baster
Rabbitfish (hair algae is toxic to other fish)
Certh snails (eat detritus before it fuels algae)
Reduced feedings with frozen foods thawed in a tea strainer/ball in DI water--throw away water
Rowaphos--(phosban sucks)
Turbo snails-yeah they suck and are clumsy but they eat this stuff fast!

Thanks to gcarroll for most of these suggestions--helped me tighten up my reef!

[NicoleC]

Great advice above, but add to it get your pH up. Low pH creates great growing conditions for hair.

You may also want to clean all your pumps and powerheads and tweak the flow -- even a small reduction in flow can make more detritus settle in the rocks and grow algae instead of getting skimemd out.

[omeg]

okay, here's one you haven't heard before. I got a pair of mollies that would love to get a buffet.

[slavearm]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7508103#post7508103 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by omeg
okay, here's one you haven't heard before. I got a pair of mollies that would love to get a buffet.

Could they handle the insane flow in my tank?

Great advice above, but add to it get your pH up. Low pH creates great growing conditions for hair.

Ph currently sits at around 8.2.... I can buffer that up a bit, it was 8.3-8.4 before the Ca reactor, so I am thinking the second chamber should increase it a bit as well.


New MH bulbs
1. Blow your rocks off twice weekly with a turkey baster
2. Rabbitfish (hair algae is toxic to other fish)
3. Certh snails (eat detritus before it fuels algae)
4. Reduced feedings with frozen foods thawed in a tea strainer/ball in DI water--throw away water
5. Rowaphos--(phosban sucks)
6. Turbo snails-yeah they suck and are clumsy but they eat this stuff fast!

1a. Currently use a Seio 820 on a magnet for blowing rocks, but only use it weekly... I can add another day in.

2a. Scribbled rabittfish is an interesting possibility. Anyone know of one that is available in OC? Although, I would have to live a zooless life, I suppose there are worse things no?

3a. I will add more of these buggers I currently have a bunch of nassarius (my spelling sucks... sue me)

4a. Current frozen food feeding is fairly limited except for Marine Plankton and Coral Plankton (each 2-3 times/week) Mysis Shrimp will be washed from now on.

5. Ok Rowaphos it is then.

6. Come to think of it, Turbos were one of the major casualties of the crash... time to stock up... I hate the bulldozers, but they do a good job of cleaning up in a hurry.

MH Bulbs... you know I checked my ReefGeek order, and those bulbs are only 6 months old... is it really time to replace them already?

Thanks Guys/Gals.

Shane

You know my Turbos did almost all perish after my crash... time to run to Jeff's.

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7507737#post7507737 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by JenDub
Rowaphos--(phosban sucks)
Charles, check this out.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/review.htm

Shane, There are many good suggestions here. If you use any animals that consume the hair algae, keep in mind that the animals waste is loaded whith the phospate and nitrate that the algae consumed. Just make sure your filtration is prepared to export those nutrients.

[omeg]

How crazy is your flow. I think I'm running 6x tank volume, but then again, my tank is pretty small so that's not much (about 400 gph), I also have a spray bar.

[JenDub]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7508388#post7508388 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
Charles, check this out.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/review.htm

Shane, There are many good suggestions here. If you use any animals that consume the hair algae, keep in mind that the animals waste is loaded whith the phospate and nitrate that the algae consumed. Just make sure your filtration is prepared to export those nutrients.

That's interesting!

My beef with phosban is it's dry nature and how easily it breaks up and gets the tank murky. I like the snuff texture of rowaphos and that it doesn't seem to breakup/disintegrate in higher flow.

Good point about the snail poop!

[Wilafur]

rabbitfish and turbo's will have it all cleaned up within a month assuming you keep the water params within check.

[riotj]

What about a sea hare?

[slavearm]

Shane, There are many good suggestions here. If you use any animals that consume the hair algae, keep in mind that the animals waste is loaded whith the phospate and nitrate that the algae consumed. Just make sure your filtration is prepared to export those nutrients. [/B]

I am thinking that my Skimmer is oversized as is, so I am hoping I wont have an issue. Thanks for the advice and words of caution.

How crazy is your flow. I think I'm running 6x tank volume, but then again, my tank is pretty small so that's not much (about 400 gph), I also have a spray bar.

Accounting for head loss

Panworld 50PX-x ~700GPH
2 Tunze 6100 on multi controller (so 130% x 1 Tunze 6100) = ~4125

So around 4825 GPH in a 135 = 35x tank volume... my corals love it.

[omeg]

that's pretty crazy flow ! :) do you have any fish in there now?

curious why you have such flow, isnt flow important to bring food and also to clean corals? Seems like overkill.

[slavearm]

My tank is long.... and not that wide. So it is hard to get flow to everywhere... I just remembered, and I turned the 6100s down quite a bit so they are probably putting out about half that or so, so my flow is probably right around 20x tank volume.


I could have gotten away with a couple of 6000s, but I know I am going to get looking at a 300G+ system in a couple of years when we remodel the house. I am hoping to be able to reuse at least those tunzes. I am using this 135 as a learning experience so I can mess it up on a smaller scale =).

I have quite a few fish actually...

The tangs seem to love it, the fish that don't care for it as much stay in lower flow areas.

[CW from the OC]

I've never found using things that eat algae to be effective, because the phosphates and nitrates are still there. The algae eaters reduce the amount, but it remains at a constant level, never really *gone*. Not to mention that many fish/inverts don't graze like they are supposed to.

If this was caused by a tank crash, nitrates are likely the main cause, along with some phosphates.

My solution is to get rid of the source. So do what many people have said and use Rowaphos in a reactor. That will handle the phosphates.

For the nitrates, use a deep sand bed in a bucket. If you have room in your sump, put it in there. Here is a great thread on it: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=595109

IT appears you are already skimming agressively and doing water changes. By adding Rowaphos and a remote DSB, along with 2-3 months of time, you should be back on track.


Edit: I see you have a refugium, how deep is the water in there? What I'm going to do with my tank this weekend is add a 5-6 inch DSB to it, and have the chaeto on top of that. For the new tank I'm building, I'm going to make the refugium 24 inches deep, so I can have a 10 inch deep DSD in it with chaeto on top. I'm convinced the DSB in a refugium is more powerful than chaeto alone.

[slavearm]

Refugium has about 16" of water it it and a volume of probably 20-30 gallons.

[CW from the OC]

Perfect!

Put about 8 -10 inches of sand in there and put the chaeto on top.

Let us know if it helps.

[NicoleC]

By the way, you have a kingdom?

I'll come scrub your rock for you every week if you have a kingdom to trade. :)

[slavearm]

I will need to remove the 6 inches of coral rubble/3-4mm aragonite you think it is worth it?

Well... I have a little doll that I call King Dom. If this works, I will pass him around. Maybe even have some replicas made.

Shane

[marcrothschild]

Dare I mention The Zeovit system. I have seen this stuff clear a 300g reef of a BAD HA infestation in under 60 days. My PO4 is 0.02 per Hana, and I feed heavily to keep the corals bright.

[bergzy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7516353#post7516353 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by marcrothschild
Dare I mention The Zeovit system. I have seen this stuff clear a 300g reef of a BAD HA infestation in under 60 days. My PO4 is 0.02 per Hana, and I feed heavily to keep the corals bright.

ZEOVIT?

that garbage and voodoo stuff that all the 'experts' poo-poo?

it is expensive, hard to maintain and is virtually nothing more than dead snake oil.

that is why i have been using zeovit for the past two months and have seen spectacular nuisance algae ablation, transparent water quality, sps' colors coming back and nothing short of the most beautiful i have ever seen my tank!

nitrates and po4's are non-existence. it is my experience that it is phosphates that make nuisance algae go ka-pow...nitrates contribute but it is the phosphates that will make you pull your 'hair' out! hehehe! :)

please do not try zeovit as it will most likely cause a greater demand for the system which may increase the price. ignore all the results i have mentioned of my tank.

oh yeah...hi marc!!! ;):);)

[saurus]

Uno wordo....

ZEOVIT

:)

[slavearm]

I'll tell you I looked into Zeovit...

I am not down for the daily maintenance requirements. I have gone to great lenths to automate the tank as much as possible and return to living my life.

Looks interesting, someday they will find a way to automate it... then it might be an option.

[gcarroll]

Zeovit is not the savior of reefing that many make it out to be. I do think it can be benificial, however the law of averages still apply. Even with Zeovit you still have a large percentage of users with problems and mediocore tanks. Good husbandry is the key and Zeovit is a system that promotes and benefits from good husbandry.

[bergzy]

the concept of zeovit is interesting and the debate is even more interesting...

on the most part...what i have gathered and read...

those who swear that zeovit doesnt work or is pure hype...interestingly, have researched it but never used it or used it incorrectly. claims upon claims that it is snake oil and the such are the typical responses of the nay sayers and that there are many methods to achieve the same results. to this, imo, i will say that this is true...true because it is true in your own mind and if it is true in your own mind...no amount of verbal discussion or convincing will get you to believe that zeo works, the world is flat or that elvis is not really dead.

yes, i have seen really, really nice reef tanks without zeo...tanks that make you go 'wow' and of course, i have also seen okay tanks without it as well. zeo is definitely not the saviour of reefing...i dont think anything is without some form of maintenance. it's like buying a ferrari and never maintaining it...eventually, because of neglect...the ferrari will eventually be overtaken by a kia.

i very very grudingly started using zeovit as a last resort and if i didnt see the results i am seeing, i would have immediately stopped using it...i dont care about having and braging about 'this' and 'that'. i just wanted a spectacular reef tank to come home to.

there was just something 'missing' on my system that wouldnt give it that 'oomph' i wanted. it was not the lack or husbandry or the misunderstanding of reefing...for some systems...i think it needs that extra component that zeo provided.

if you look into the core of zeovit...it is not equipment or gizmo's that make it work...the principles are similar to what a dsb does...using nature...the zeoliths absorb ammonia...absorbing ammonia immediately and taking it out of the water column has one result...no conversion to nitrite and nitrate. there is a bacterial component that replicates the oligotrohpic (read this on the zeo forum..i am not a marine biologist) conditions that are found naturally in oceans. the nitrate and phosphate reducing components are by far the most effective i have ever seen. so effective that i had to take my refugium down as there was ZERO nitrates and phosphates in my system. this was something that i could never achieve...getting my nutrients so low that chaeto wouldnt grow.

zeo, imo and from what i have read, is the furthest thing from anyting techno. it goes back to the basis that mother nature is the ultimate method. the only gizmo that zeo recommends is really good skimming.

i have tried almost every gizmo out there to try and achieve the results i am seeing with zeo...double beckett skimmers (not dual nozzles...TWO HUGE separate becketts) running along with two smaller ER's...ozone injection, about 8 pounds live rock per gallon of water for more biofiltration, rowaphos, purigen, phosguard etc, etc, etc...the list is too long. in addition, i am not in lacking for good husbandry behavior.

dsb's, ime, have been great in the beginning but have all met their fate, again, ime, by eventually becoming messy settling chambers. i loved refugiums but it never got my nutrients low enough to have the tank that i wanted. on the zeo forum...there are reefers that also use dsb's...so this is not a contraindication.

the talk of a lot of reefers is about nutrients is nitrate...nitrate, nitrate...nitrate. while nitrate is a component for nuisance algae like hair...the real culprit is phosphates...get your phosphates down...way down...in the 0.02 range and you will see incredible things start to happen. not only does phosphates spawn nuisance algae...but it affects coral health as well.

as i said before...zeo is not for everyone...as i feel it, like anything completely new in thinking, requires a steep learning curve...but for those who use it correctly...the results CAN be breath taking.

[slavearm]

What does the daily maintenance look like though?

[gcarroll]

Shane another system simular to Zeovit that requires less daily maintenance is Prodibio. Most of the additives are added weekly or bi weekly.

[slavearm]

Bergzy,

Just wondering, do you have any before/after photos of your tank with Zeo?

Shane

[bromion]

On the removal of hair algae question, I find dosing Kalkwasser helps quite a bit in encouraging more attractive forms of algae to grow instead of hair. Moving a bunch of hair and other macro algae to my sump/fuge has virtually eliminated hair algae growth in my display tank. I leave on the fuge light 24/7. It's about 8 gallon fuge for a 58 gal tank.

[shadowman70]

One sea hare or a couple of turbos will do the trick I assure you....I used a combination of both and they wiped my live rock spotless inside a month.......

Rich

[slavearm]

Done so Far:

1. Water Changes done weekly (at least 10% but usually 25%)
2. Upgraded Refugium Lighting (if my Cheato cant compete now... its back to calurpa)
3. Added 5 bulldozers (turbo snails)
4. Changed flow for return pump to increase flow behind rockwork to hopefully keep more crap in the water column
5. Started using rowaphos
6. Started soaking carbon in R/O the day before I use it
7. Adjusted halide lighting to a reasonable 10hour photoperiod (I goofed my ACIII config and they were on for 12 hours a day)
8. Cleaned my skimmer pretty thuroughly

Slow progress, but the Hair is starting to recede. Future plans:

1. 6" DSB in refugium (is 6" deep enough?) going to relocate the coral rubble somewhere else
2. Just completed making a really nifty ozone reactor from a phosban reactor and a coralife ozone reactor (I fixed all the problems with it for about $1.12 will post DIY soon) so regular ozone dosing should begin in a week or so.
3. Second Cheato ball under new frag area of sump (this stuff should grow really well.... I have a 150w 10K Ushio MH about 8" from it mwahahahaah
4. Purchase an accurate test kit for PO4 (hannah? Got a link?)
5. (Considering Only) Getting a prodibio shot for one time cleanup

[bromion]

I also don't run my MH for very long each day, so that probably helps me as well. But then again, I don't need to run them that long for what I have in my tank just yet. I run MH for 5 hours a day, and weaker PC lights for an additional 4 hours (2 on either side of the MH). Not sure what effect a longer or shorter photoperiod will have on hair algae.

I did note a big spike in hair algae growth when I changed from only MH (20k 400W) to part MH and part 48W 50/50 PCs. It was suggested to me that the change in lighting spectrum allowed the hair algae to flourish before other organisms could compensate.

[jun_celis]

I've done everything before the phosphate reactor and nothing worked! Then I incorporated LF Phosphate reactor, 2 months later... it's all gone!

[slavearm]

Yah the phosphate removal media seems to help even with the algae on the glass. It is noticably decreased a couple days after the start of my rowa use.