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cschweitzer
06/02/2006, 03:05 PM
MODS: PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU MOVE!!!

I thought long and hard about the moral implications before writing this post and I hope you consider this before looking at it in any negative light. I came to the same conclusion I always do: worry about the coral's health before anything else. I know this is not the place for this post, but I think this is important enough to put here and I think it will receive the most activity on this forum as all the browsers pass it by. Mods, if you still think it needs to be moved or removed after you read it, by all means please do so. This is no way intended to lie, cheat, or steal. This is for the good of the coral and the good of all the people interested in it.

Shipping corals is not always easy and not for the faint of heart. There are many things that can go wrong...bag burst, damaged package, delayed or lost shipment. As reef caretakers, we have it worse than anyone. We take great care in packaging our corals and we put our trust in the shipper. Many times they take this trust for granted and do not show the same care we have spent months and years on, just to have it ripped away over the course of 24 hours.

This is only compounded and doubling our problems because they do not guarantee live arrival of animals, plants, etc. Everything else, including perishable foods to antique, fragile glass is covered, but not the one thing we care most about.

There is a trick you can use and still be completely honest with the shippers to get any DOA's caused by damged packaging or delay in service covered. This trick is: call your corals perishable foods. You are not lying, because coral is a food item for many things(certain nudibranchs, certain flatworms, redbugs, parrotfish, butterflyfish, the list goes on and on). Noone will deny that coral is perishable. Therefore, it falls directly under perishable foods. If you get a shipment of Omaha steaks and you don't plan on eating them, but instead culturing the bacteria that is on them, it would still be covered under perishable foods if they dried up and everything you wanted died off on them. I guess what I'm saying is that perishable foods do not need to be consumed or necessarily dead to be considered under that blanket.

If it is the shipping company's fault(i.e. delay, damage) that your coral dies, why do you have to take the blame. Many companies deliver perishable foods overnight and will be compensated for any loss due to shipment complications, why shouldn't we. It does not take much to keep coral alive during shipment, just don't throw my package, drop my package, destroy my package, or send it to the wrong place.

I have attempted to be very selective in my wording as to not imply anything dishonest or untruthful. If they don't ask if it is live goods, why tell them. Call it perishable foods and if they ask if it was living, tell them the truth. DO NOT LIE, it is bad for your soul. Do not offer unnecessary information either.

Trying to save the world, one reef at a time!!!!!!!

cristhiam
06/02/2006, 03:27 PM
I had a hard time with UPS, you can't put anything on the box (that's what they said), USPS it's fine. Not sure why.

cschweitzer
06/02/2006, 03:36 PM
I would assume that iss because UPS opens and inspects their packages sometimes, and if you put stuff on the box, it shows that they opened and tampered with your package, so they are less likely to do so. It's completely legal, but completely outrageous. I'm sure other shipping companies do the same, but if you gripe enough, they will listen. Even if they open it, most don't know that it is alive. Many people would assume that it is just as you described it: perishable food.

Stixbaraca
06/02/2006, 03:54 PM
Great ideas cschweitzer!

Nuhtty
06/02/2006, 03:58 PM
A+

keithntracy
06/02/2006, 05:44 PM
What an great idea!!! Great thinking Craig!!

Stoney Mahony
06/02/2006, 11:28 PM
FYI, you can put whatever you want on the outside of the box. I have sent boxes stamped "fragile", "Live organism", "Live animal" and never had a problem. Every Live aquaria, or AES order also comes with their name printed on the box. Perishable food should not be a problem.

cristhiam
06/03/2006, 12:16 AM
at the ups office they made me take it off. I don't have a problem with USPS.

Freed
06/03/2006, 12:17 AM
USPS here won't ship anything with liquid in it ESPECIALLY if it's live coral.

MinibowMatt
06/03/2006, 08:06 AM
does marking it perishable on USPS help with any DOA claims?
IME- USPS will not honor priority guarantee for anything-no matter what- they say its and expected delivery of 2-3 days... However, I have only lost one package with USPS and it went to Texas shortly after Katrina..

cristhiam
06/03/2006, 08:11 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7488972#post7488972 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
USPS here won't ship anything with liquid in it ESPECIALLY if it's live coral.
Maybe you can tell them to read their website :). It's allowed as long it's marked on the outside of the box. what I put is FRAGILE liquid (water) - perishable

Stixbaraca
06/03/2006, 08:20 AM
I don't think USPS will guarantee priority packages, but express ones they will. I just shipped something express (guaranteed overnight) , and it got there in 2 days, and I was refunded my full shipping charges. The coral didn't make it unfortunately which is a whole other story of course.

billsreef
06/03/2006, 09:11 AM
You should look more carefully, most shippers including FedEx have a disclaimer for any perishable items, including perishable food, not just live animals. Hence, there is no point in trying to trick the shipper into thinking it's food.

Freed
06/03/2006, 10:49 AM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7489905#post7489905 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cristhiam
Maybe you can tell them to read their website :). It's allowed as long it's marked on the outside of the box. what I put is FRAGILE liquid (water) - perishable

I even told them that their website specifically states that fish and snails that are not considered endangered, illegal, etc., are permissable to ship but they didn't want to dig into their data and confirm it.

SPStoner
06/03/2006, 01:17 PM
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7490537#post7490537 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Freed
I even told them that their website specifically states that fish and snails that are not considered endangered, illegal, etc., are permissable to ship but they didn't want to dig into their data and confirm it.

Unfortunately, all corals are considered endangered, and covered by CITES. (Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species).

Freed
06/03/2006, 02:37 PM
Did not know that about corals. Do you have a link? Thanks.

cschweitzer
06/03/2006, 03:49 PM
From FEDEX website...As long as you package it for 12 hours longer than the shipment commitment, you are good. Here it is in their words:


We are not liable for perishable articles shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight, FedEx Standard Overnight, FedEx 2Day, FedEx Express Saver, FedEx 1Day Freight and FedEx 2Day Freight, unless packaged for a minimum transit time of at least 12 hours greater than our delivery commitment time for the shipment. Perishables coming from Hawaii to the continental U.S. must be packaged for additional transit time. Shipping perishable articles over a weekend is discouraged, and packaging such shipments for longer transit times is required. We recommend that you ship perishable items via FedEx First Overnight, FedEx Priority Overnight or FedEx 1Day Freight, and have your proposed packaging evaluated by FedEx Packaging Design and Development. For information on how to submit your packaging for evaluation, call 1.800.633.7019. Your failure to use proper packaging releases us from any liability for spoiled perishables that we would otherwise assume (see the Liabilities Not Assumed section).

cschweitzer
06/03/2006, 03:51 PM
Coral is not even described in the FEDEX live animals shipping policy. They are actually perishable foods. We have been getting the short end of the stick on this shipping policy:


Live Animals and Ornamental Marine Life (Including Live Fish)

FedEx Express does not accept live-animal shipments as part of its regular-scheduled service and does not transport household pets such as dogs, cats, birds and hamsters. FedEx Express may accept certain shipments of live animals such as horses, livestock and zoo animals (to and from zoo locations only) on an exception basis if approved and coordinated by the FedEx Live Animal Desk (call 1.800.405.9052).

If approved by FedEx, we may accept non-venomous reptiles, amphibians, live/tropical fish and beneficial insects on an exception basis under the following conditions:

Shipments must be from a business to a business (from a breeder to a pet store, for example).
The shipper must have its packaging tested and pre-approved by FedEx Packaging Design and Development for the type of animal being shipped. Call 1.800.633.7019 for assistance. It is the responsibility of the shipper to adequately package shipments for all temperature extremes and handling conditions.
Contact your FedEx account executive for details and additional requirements.

cschweitzer
06/03/2006, 03:53 PM
billsreef, not tricking, carefully wording. The above, I believe, is what you are referring to. They will cover perishable foods loss if they are not on time.

cschweitzer
06/03/2006, 03:54 PM
Just shortening what they say and getting all the extra stuff out of the way, here is their policy on perishables:

We are not liable...unless packaged for a minimum transit time of at least 12 hours greater than our delivery commitment time for the shipment.

badbones
06/04/2006, 12:14 AM
Sometimes I can be the master of word games. In this case if you want to truly classify it as food, throw in a small piece of caulerpa for the buyers fish. Now you can truly say its food with out having to lie. I know caulerpa can be an issue shipping to some places so then grow your own brine shrimp and ship them. Seems like this could be a way around it.

What ca think???

Al G Blenny
06/05/2006, 02:58 AM
I don't think I agree with always blaming FedEx or other shipping companies when your package gets delayed. Many of the times they can't help it. Flights were just delayed do to weather or other airlines taking too long. I do agree that if a package was shipped to the wrong location they should pay for the corals that don't make it. That is their fault. I just know that people are quick to try to get the bigger company to pay for problems just because they have the resources to. I'm not saying you are wrong. It's just if you want to justify a lie of omission you have to be carefull.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7491260#post7491260 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SPStoner
Unfortunately, all corals are considered endangered, and covered by CITES. (Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species).
You might be right but I just can't believe that. Isn't it illegal to sell endangered species? Maybe there's a little confusion in what you read.