My powder brown is getting progressively crazy

[organic]

Hey guys,

My powder brown tang seems to be getting progressively crazier... sometimes he flies like a maniac at walls to pick on algae or fights his own refelction... it seems to be a progressive sort of thing... but he does not attack the fishes in the tank though...

I got an arabian butterfly and he is attacking him constantly, what a Nuisance...I hope its not a result of some underlying infection/etc. as its just seems to erratic of behavior...

hmm

[bajathree]

This is a common occurence with Tangs in small quarters. What size is your tank?

[organic]

72 gallons... I know.. its a bit tight.. I hope he will be ok, he got over other acclimations so far... Koran and mandarin, etc.


I will definetly not put any more fish into this tank as it is almost overstocked as it is, but still enough space for the tang to swim around..

[BrianD]

You are keeping a koran angel, arabian butterflyfish, and powder brown tang in a 72 gallon tank?

*SIGH*

Each of these fish require a minimum tank size of at least 75 gallons.

Brian


[Edited by BrianD on 10-31-2000 at 12:07 PM]

[discented]

hi do u think a koran will be able to live in a 6 foot 125gallon tank?

[Agu]

Organic,

You have too many potentially large fish in your tank, but I don't think that's your problem in this case(yet). I have a powder blue tang in a 180 with four other small fish and plenty of swimming room and see the same behaviors. IMHO, they're flighty and high strung fish and get stressed out very easily. The stress makes them susceptible to ick, hence the reputation as "ick magnets". If/when you decide to lower the bioload in your tank imo the powder brown should be the first to go. I know someone will post that their powder xxx tang is the mellowest fish they own, and won't dispute that, but this is my experience from owning one and observing many more trying to pick out a "mellow" one.

Agu

[PopeShawnPaul]

My yellow tang does the exact same thing. I only have a 55, but I only have 3 fish total and my tank is not near capacity. My tang only uses the left half of the tank, and doesn't swim on the right at all. He does the same shadowboxing routine and is erratic. It comes and goes, but I think he sometimes does it at me more. Maybe displaying his dominance? I think tangs are just nuts personally.

[organic]

Well my water quality is very good and
actually the POWDER BROWN is quite mellow most of the time, I mean I have quite a number of fish in the tank and all was good, its the first day for the Arabian so I figure Brown will do his thing for a day as he did with the Koran and then will mellow out.... I will probably first transfer the 2 oscellaris into my 10g minireef to live with a Sebae or long tentacle anemone and leave the 72g as it is.....

I don't think the powder brown is stressed he is just rather dominant I guess though he would never attempt to bother the yellow (who is smaller and also very mellow) or the Henochus, who I guess is bigger and gets ****ed off easily... I would surmise all will be good in a day or two I am more worried about the Arabian as he is a delicate fish and now I will have to feed him corals first again until he eats frozen food, though he ate frozen in the store... we will see, from talking to the wholsaler who originally had him I hear that they like Angel Formula...

[BrianD]

Water quality doesn't have a darn thing to do with it. You have a tragically overstocked tank, and I sympathize for your fish. I always wonder how people can rationalize these horrendous stocking levels. Your koran angel will reach over 13 inches, the powder brown will reach over 10, and the butterfly will be of comparable size. You keep mentioning your "yellow". Please don't tell me you have a yellow tang also.

How can you expect your fish to behave normally when their basic instinct is to claim a territory and a hiding place, and you have a tank that is woefully too small to provide either? I am always amazed at people who post that their fish is behaving erratically and then when stocking levels are mentioned protest that their "water parameters are good". So what? The fact that water parameters are good should be a GIVEN before ANY fish are added. Once the water parameters are acceptable, than you should give equal consideration to environment, substrate, oxygenation, and other factors that influence the fish your tank can support.

Obviously, you are more concerned about piling as many fish as you can into a small tank. How sad.

Brian

[organic]

Well Brian,

There is no need for you to get loud about it.. First off, most of my fish are juveniles, of no more then 3" in length. Second, the larger fish will go to a bigger tank in a while. Third, no I am not about overstocking my tank.

ALso, the erratic behavior is because he has ICK already as I have just looked at him more closely. So he is getting Melafix for now and the oscellaris will be removed to my 10g reef soon. water quality I menitoned just for kicks as every one always asks abou it. Of course my water quality is good, its a well established system.

[hcs3]

:(

how incredibly sad. i echoe every word brian d spoke, and most likely in a louder and more harsh tone of voice.

organic

i'd love to share my knowledge and advice with you. unfortunitely i think i'll be wasting my time, and yours. perhaps i am wrong. so, in short, i voice a small fraction of the advice you need, and wait to see if you truly want to help your fish or not...

remove the powder brown. remove the koran. if yoy have a yellow tang in there, remove it or the butterfly. before that is done, any advice that anyone can give you will be useless.

henry

[signu459]

Sounds like the PB tang was a new introduction, is that so?

[BrianD]

Henry, thanks for your comments. Although this may fall on deaf ears, here goes:

Organic:

I have been keeping saltwater fish for several years. I have never had a case of ich or any other parasite. I have successfully kept (and presently have) a m. melagris (leopard wrasse), mandarins, purple tang, and a hepatus tang. Each of these fish (especially the wrasse and mandarin) have varying reputations as being difficult to keep, whether due to susceptibility to disease or difficulty in feeding. Both species of tang are known as "ich-magnets". I have had no problems. Why? Nothing special I have done, except provide the environment suitable for the fish to thrive. If we truly want to be successful and not have to worry about buying the snake-oil of the month cure for whatever disease our fish catch, this should be our goal. When you stock a tank as heavily as you have, you have made your job of keeping these fish a daily battle. You seem to be more interested in treating the symptom than fighting the disease. If you would do a little research, you will find that stress plays a large role in weakening a fish's defenses to parasitic infections, and improper stocking levels plays a large role in stress. You think you can solve the problem with Melafix? Wrong. As long as you have all these incompatible, large fish stuffed into a 72 gallon tank, you will have problems. You also seem to think that since they are juveniles you are ok. That belies a lack of understanding of fish husbandry. Juveniles of many species (esp. the Koran angelfish) can be even more intolerant of other fish than adults. Plus, this aggressiveness will only get worse as the other fish grow. You say you are getting a bigger tank. I hope so. You will need at least 300 gallons to keep all the fish you have healthy. If you don't believe what I am saying, why is it that you have a sick fish within weeks of introduction?

Brian

[Phisher]

I dont believe on jumping on someone for making a mistake, I have made my share, but costructive critasizam can be benificial, so my 2 cents is:

1. Listen to the advise above.
2. Tanks with lower stocking levels= lower stress levels=healthier fish and fewer problems.
3. Like was mentioned above medicating an illness will do no good if no effort is made to remove the stressor that caused the initial outbreak.

HTH

[organic]

This is all very good, however both Brian and Henry...

Brian I have kept mandarins and sevral other difficult to keep fish for quite some time... just because I am asking for advice does not mark me a newbie nor someone who does not listen. I am well aware of the bioload in the tank and have had no trouble with my fish for quite sometime, and that is why disease treatment is something that I do not do regularly. However I have successfully treated brooklynella in clowns w/o utilizing formalin, etc. since you seem to think that everything but antibiotics (with whic I have professional familiarity) seem to be well.. crap...

Most likely the stressor is due to a ground probe that I have placed in the tank, since it seems that from that time the fish got more agitated or perhaps from several rather large water changes that I did with, of course, a certain purpose in mind as usually I try to limit any changes in the system. and yes I know that Melafix is more of a bacterial and not parasitic treatment... however, it does wonders at time as you may read here on reefcentral in many posts.

You know its OK for people to have different opinions since
many reefers have told me that this number of fish is fine, I mean yes I want to have an 8' line for my tang to swim in, and yes juveniles are more susceptable to new intros. that all said and done all I wanted to know how to treat the current problem not how to root it out, since its not a global problem.. but thanks for the advice nontheless and please do not say that antything falls on dead ears..

And no, the powder brown is not a new intro

[PopeShawnPaul]

Brian, if you would have given your second answer first, and not given your first answer I think your advise would have been taken with far better acceptance from the listener. I think you kind of alienated him, and gave him a god reaction that probably wasn't necessary. Great advise though on the second post.