OT: can anyone recommend a dog therapist?

[dreaminmel]

I know I can't afford the likes of Cesar Millan but am looking for someone along those lines.

My akita has dog issues. He likes all people but pretty much any dog that gets near him (male or female) now provokes a hefty growl and lunge. No, he is not fixed. I am waiting to see how well he develops and will then decide whether or not he is show material but unless I can get him past this dog aggression issue I KNOW I could never ethically breed him. Plus, I have been advised by many people including our vet that neutering doesn't necessarily change any dog aggression issues even if it's done prior to maturation but I may still consider it to prevent him getting testicular cancer later in life.

He went to puppy classes last fall and played just fine w/ all the other pups and is now halfway through obedience classes this spring. While I am very confident that our current trainer is helping us with the training aspect, I feel we need more guidance on the psychological aspect. I've been told to have him around as many dogs as possible but find that hard because I don't trust that the owner of the other dog is always going to completely understand the situation. I've been told to have people w/ dogs toss my dog treats so he associates other dogs w/ something good but it's kinda hard to get the treats to the other person without a bad scenario already unfolding... oi, have I already told you all I like challenges? :D

On the plus side he loves ALL people. I know Cesar says dogs don't live in the past but I'm getting the impression that mine is as he was attacked by a full grown German Shepard in Petco once that managed to remove its muzzel... :mad:

Sorry if this is of no interest to some but we had a really bad day at obedience class today.

[Stephany]

aww, sorry to hear about your trouble.
How old is he?
Where did you get him?
I'm only asking because I wonder if the owners of his parents had to deal with the same situation. Maybe the breeder can offer some experience with what they did if they faced something similar.

Does it matter who is handling him at the time for him to have the same reaction to other dogs?
Do you think it's out of protection for you, or aggression because he wants to be top dog and these other dogs are in his territory?

Akitas were bred for their protection, were used to strengthen fighting dog lines not too long ago, and are actually supposed to be aggressive towards other dogs.

The AKC Standard for Akitas:
Temperament
Alert and responsive, dignified and courageous. Aggressive toward other dogs.


Does he have that aggression to all other dogs, even puppies/smaller breeds.. or just dogs that may present a challenge?

It's alright chiquita. I've been the unruly dog owner before. Not fun. With enough work he'll probably be obedient with other dogs, but based on his blood he'll probably always have to be supervised.

[dreaminmel]

Thanks Stephany,

Yeah, supervision I could handle as that's a given anyways with this breed. They are NEVER to be off leash unless in the house unless you want to drive around the entire county looking for them...

-He turned 1 year old Saturday 5/20.
-My aunt breeds akitas so I've been with him and his parents from day one and the only aggression I've seen from his parents was when his mom attacked another female in the household that got too close to her puppies.
-FWIW my aunt has limited control of the dogs at her house. She currently has two unfixed males, 4 unfixed females, a female husky mix and a male papillon which I think is a bit much for her to handle at this point but that's a battle for another day.

It doesn't matter who is handling him when it happens which is why I think it's more fear based than protective based. I know akitas were bred to hunt bear in Japan and they protected the households while their owners went out to socialize so they are quite independent by nature but also VERY loyal.

He is aggressive to all dogs that have an "expired puppy permit". It was explained to me that at a certain age a puppy's "play as you like" permit expires with older dogs and this seems to ring true. He has been aggressive towards both male and female but has also been attacked before all this started by a male german shepard (at Petco) and a female german shepard (at friend's house) at two different times. Since then we've had issues...

I just sent a lengthy email to a local trainer so am hoping that she can either help me or refer me to someone who can.

Other than the dog aggression he is a perfect gentleman in every way so I don't want people to get the wrong idea about this breed. If I have a good experience with finding someone to help I'll post their contact info in this thread in case anyone else here could benefit from it.

On a positive note, here he is w/ his Bday presents Saturday...
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/50374mini-DSCN1103.JPG

[dderue]

Beutiful dog. I would recommend Uncle Bob over at Lollypop in Pittsford. He will do private training, I used him for obiediance and puppy training. He was excellent. There was one dog that was aggressive toward people in my basic obediance class. By the end of the session, anyone in our class could go up and give the dog a treat. I didn't think that was to bad for one day a week working with the dog. If he can't help you, I am sure he can recommend someone.

[bigkev76]

That is a very common trait with Akitas, especially if they were not raised with another dog in the house. Most times if someone is getting rid of an akita that is mature, they usually list it as good with kids and people, no other pets. Good luck with breaking him of this, I wish you the best.

[dreaminmel]

Thanks bigkev,

I am hopeful still at this point because not too long ago he was fine with our friends bringing their dogs to our house and would even let those dogs play with his toys and drink his water. Ever since the german shepard confrontations that has changed so we shall see if he has permanently lost his trust in other dogs now or not. Our friends can no longer bring over their dogs at this point. -One of them was a female pitbull and those two loved playing together incessantly without any issues up until recently so to avoid my friend's pitbull from also becoming aggressive we are keeping her away from Kuda until his issues get addressed properly.

I received an email back from the trainer I contacted and she is willing to meet and evaluate Kuda so I'm crossing my fingers. :)

Also, on a side note prior to bringing Kuda home I was aware of the AKC's breed description but at the same time I've seen many dogs that overcome that genetic trait. Many people expect the same behaviour from Rotteweilers and Pitbulls the majority of those that I know are more docile than most other dogs I meet. I believe that genetics play a role in behaviour but also believe that conditioning can have a greater affect. Japanese akitas of the old days used to be conditioned to protect their homes from both people and dogs alike but my dog loves all people and will let them take his toys and bones out of his mouth and even give them kisses for doing it so there is hope still at this point.

[Stephany]

Hopefully this trainer will have some of his own dogs that he can use in some of the sessions after he gets to know Kuda. He's very pretty.

I know a local guy named Mitch Stahl but that won't help you unless you want to drive. He trains german shephards in shutzhund and does the search and rescues.
I wouldn't recommend him for someone with a smaller breed, or any dog that a pinch collar is way overkill for. My personal opinion is that his forte was with larger dogs. (I had a weimeraner that was my dog and would listen to me perfectly but would growl & be aggressive towards my parents. We ended up having to give the dog back to the breeder. :( )

I do think that Japanese akitas of the old days before they were brought over were of better quality of the typical akita. But it sounds like there's nothing unreasonable about his mother's behavior.
Ofcourse there's hope. :) I definitely agree about the conditioning beats genetics. I think he'll be fine with only being a year old. You sound like a very conscientous dog owner.

[LFS_worker]

my wife wanted me to go to a therapist too. :)

G/L mel

Brian

[dreaminmel]

Thanks Brian! And I think just about any of us in this hobby have considered (or had their spouse consider) a therapist at one point or another... :D

On a side note I'm buying Jamie's tank setup this weekend so it may be a bit before I can get back into the store but wanted to let you & Ryan know those frags I got from upstairs are doing excellent! Hopefully Millie has luck propagating those as I'm sure others would like them too. ;)

[Jamie2337]

Melanie,

My husband is awesome with dogs. We could bring my ultra-submissive German Shepherd and try to work with them a little.

He worked with our neighbors aggressive female shepherd and within an hour they were playing together off-leash. The neighbors were amazed.

Our shepherd Gary is super sweet and wonderful with other dogs.

Have you read The Monks of New Skete books?

I love them.

[dreaminmel]

Jamie, That is super sweet of you to offer but I would feel absolutely horrible if Kuda bit your dog and I can't guarantee at this point that he won't try. He's not allowed near any of our friends' dogs until this gets addressed because I love animals too much to see one get hurt. His obedience instructor actually is convinced that if I give him a chance to try another method for the remaining 3 weeks that we can help Kuda get over this problem. If not, I'm sure I'll be having Alisson (the specialist I spoke with) come and evaluate him for another effort.

I actually had not heard of those books. I'll have to do some amazon surfing to see what I can find out. Do they have a unique philosophy in regards to training or are they more psychologically based?

[Landolakes]

Hello, I am new to the forum and this will be my first post but it is worth it. Behavioral Specialists of Rochester is a good place to call up. I work for an animal shelter and Ms. Hanley is fantastic( think dog whisperer) she will be worth it. You can let her know that Orlando from RAS reffered you and she may hook you up.

[dreaminmel]

Thanks Landolakes! :D

Depending on what "new approach" Kuda's trainer takes with him next Tuesday I just may give her a call. If she even comes close to being like Cesar (the Dog Whisperer) I would love to get her feedback. Any chance you can PM me a phone #? My dog ate my phone books about 6 months ago... :rolleyes: Luckily his taste for ruining things stopped around that same time. :D

[dreaminmel]

(Sorry to drag this back up from the depths but thought it might be useful info for someone w/ an aggressive dog issue some day.)

So the problem has been solved. :D The obedience trainer asked me to keep bringing him to class and he definately wanted to try another approach. We had been using a prong collar which I will highly recommend to anyone w/ a dog that likes to pull. Kuda is perfectly behaved w/ the prong collar on -except- it was causing his dog aggression. The prongs were simulating a bite in his mind which he started to associate w/ other dogs being around. Ever since I started using a halti collar on him at class he has been absolutely excellent with all the other dogs be they male, female, spayed, neutered or in tact.

According to the trainer about 1 in 10 dogs react badly to the prong collar. Everyone else's dogs are fine w/ the prong collars as long as they're used correctly. Kuda just wasn't hearin it. Oh happy day!

[m-fine]

Congrats!

[Heyman]

and you wanted a dog wisperer. HA!

congrats tho

[MarksReef]

That's great to hear you figured out his troubles. I just read the whole post and darn near wore my whole cup of coffee reading this.
Any chance you can PM me a phone #? My dog ate my phone books about 6 months ago..

I'm looking for a good dog trainer(or therapist LOL) if any one knows one for my new pup, Wyatt.
.
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j107/zack136/Picture023.jpg

[m-fine]

If you live on the south east, I have used Bill Payne's school in Victor, he trained me well. Keep in mind it is about 98% the owner that needs to be trained, not the dog. If you are consistent and speaking their language, dogs usually learn fast.