New Teacher pay

[reefman30]

I'm fed up with teachers and their hefty salary guides. What we need here is a little perspective. If I had it my way, I'd pay these teachers myself. I'd pay them baby-sitting wages. That's right. I'd give them $3.00 an hour. And, I'm only going to pay them for five hours, not coffee breaks. That would be $15.00 a day. Each parent should pay $15.00 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children. Even if they have more than one child, it's cheaper than private daycare. Now how many children do they teach a day, maybe twenty-five, or thirty? That's $15.00 X 25 = $375.00 a day. But remember, they only work 180 days a year! I'm not going to pay them for all of those vacations. $375 X 180 = $67,500. (Just a minute, I think I added wrong). I know you teachers will say, "What about those who have ten years of experience and a masters degree?" Well, maybe (just to be fair) they could get the minimum wage, and instead of just baby-sitting, they could read the kids a story.We can round that off to about $5.00 an hour, times five hours, twenty-five children. $5.00 X 5 X 25 = $625.00. Round it down to $500 a day times 180 days. That's $112,500 per year.Wait a minute. Let's get a little perspective here. Baby-sitting wages are too good for those teachers. Did anyone see a salary guide around here?

[oz]

I'll support higher pay for teachers.

Although I wish they were more national board certified teachers.

[Niven]

Agreed, but you need to pay for the space and utilities :)

[Wilafur]

i would, but only if they were qualified. too many idiot teachers out there. for example, in hs, i was constantly correcting my math teacher. the guy was nice and all but he was a bumbling fool.

[jgoodrich71]

You're argument for pay rate would be valid if you were teaching those student one on one. You math is off.

My wife is a teacher. There are many days I would gladly switch places with her. She does not have to put up with the stresses I do. She gets off work much earlier than I do. She has many more days off. You knew what kind of salary to expect when you became a teacher.

Sure, it would be great if we could pay teachers more, but I think it would be great if I got paid more also. Everyone thinks they deserve more than what they are paid.

I remember in college, if you weren't smart enough to make it in a real major, you went into education. Some of the dumbest people I knew were education majors.

[reefman30]

Guess I should have put a few of these :D :rollface: :lol: :lmao:
To imply that it was a light hearted poke at pay. Oh well.


I remember in college, if you weren't smart enough to make it in a real major, you went into education. Some of the dumbest people I knew were education majors.

That is a slap to every teacher out there.
I don't know about education courses since I have B.S. in Mathematics. But I do know the eduction majors who were going to teach secondary math took up through diferential equations and some beyond. That does not sound like very dumb people to me.


She does not have to put up with the stresses I do.

Lets see. Just today our school found out that 3 seniors did not pass their last try at our state exit test. Guess what. They do not get to graduate. If you think pouring your heart, soul, and time into students that try their hardest and still fail is not stressfull then you mister have a cold heart.

[Wilafur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7304173#post7304173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jgoodrich71
I remember in college, if you weren't smart enough to make it in a real major, you went into education. Some of the dumbest people I knew were education majors. wow, what a zinger.

at ucla the folks that couldn't hack it were sociology majors. kinda funny because the people i knew that graduated with the soc major, about half of them ended up getting a masters in education and are now teaching. ;)

that said, i know plenty of smartypants that are teachers but in the CA public school system you would be hard pressed to find a a smartypants teacher as the pay is much more enticing in the private school system.

[jgoodrich71]

That is a slap to every teacher out there.


I don't see how that is a slap. Although, one of the smartest people I know is now a teacher. He is intellegent enough to do any job on this planet, but he chose teaching. He is the kind of teacher for which I have the utmost repect.

Lets see. Just today our school found out that 3 seniors did not pass their last try at our state exit test. Guess what. They do not get to graduate. If you think pouring your heart, soul, and time into students that try their hardest and still fail is not stressfull then you mister have a cold heart.

If that test is anything like the test I took (I took my HS exit exam in 8th grade, lol) then either you failed to teach them or they failed themselves. I guess I do have a cold heart in that respect.

[reefman30]

I remember in college, if you weren't smart enough to make it in a real major, you went into education. Some of the dumbest people I knew were education majors.

The statement implies that everyone that is a education major is dumb. Therefore all teachers are dumb. That is how I take your statement. Maybe I am wrong.

Would you say this about your wife?



Our exit test is taken the junior year and the math part covers algebra and geometry. And there are also science, english, and social studies tests.

[jgoodrich71]

I'm not saying all teachers are dumb. I'm saying education classes were easier than most all of the other majors in regards to classes required. They didn't have to take difficult classes to earn their degree.

[brentp]

I have a friend who was a geology major who is now a mailman.

[oz]

I was a computer science major now I just surf the web, mostly RC lounge. :)

[jgoodrich71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7304647#post7304647 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brentp
I have a friend who was a geology major who is now a mailman.

Couldn't finish the course work, uh?

[brentp]

No, he finished. He just couldn't find a job with decent pay.

[jgoodrich71]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7304752#post7304752 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by brentp
No, he finished. He just couldn't find a job with decent pay.

There you go...see...not even geologists earn what they should:D

I need a raise.

[John Karavias]

Walk in my shoes b4 telling me I am dumb, overpaid, and underworked. We all made dicisions in life. I chose to be a teacher. I lent a kid $200 for a tux. He used it to run away. 2 years later he called me and paid me back. Had 2 kids die already. One kid now has LEUKEMIA. Helping an alcoholic get help now. Acted like a few kids fathers. Helped a family not get divorced. Got two kids jobs. Have a dam folder to back all this up. By the way I teach Biology. Left that part out. All this in 6 years and there is more. A girl took a few dozen pills b4 going to my class. When I carried her to the nurse, she would only go to the hospital if I went with her. Broke up gang fights. The list goes on my friends. In all industry there are good and bad employees. Sometimes I go home and hate my life because I see the future of my community and am scared of it. By the way, if a kid tells you to kiss his ***, what would you do. In school I have to take it. If you do not like teachers, keep your kids out of school and do it your self. See how good they turn out. It is called home schooling. They turn out socially inept. I hope this forum has little more respect for a teacher after this post.

Respectfully,
John Karavias

[John Karavias]

The girl who took the pills would not go to the hospital unless I went with her. Sorry about that.

John

[Agu]

My daughter is finishing her first and last year teaching. She had to get a part time job just to pay the bills. She makes more money half time waiting tables than full time as a teacher. (Granted it's a very upscale restaurant)

Teachers are under paid, and if you complain about the quality of teachers it's because of the pay scale.

My Congratulations/condolences to those exceptional teachers who do their work out of love of the profession.

[KafudaFish]

So geologists look at what all day? Oh yeah rocks. How is that stressful? I am just joking take it easy.
Yes everyone should be paid more than they make but how do you determine this? Education level, technical skills, or the dangers of the job?
Actually teaching is one of the top 3 most stressful jobs out there behind cop and fireman I believe. Also most teachers quit after 5 years of teaching for better pay or less stress.
And yes everyone knows there are certain majors that are easier than others in college.
Teachers get more vacation and time off than any other profession except nursing if you are working 7 on 7 off so it balances out.
High school exit exams/Gateway exams are a joke in almost every state. If a person simply chose "C" each time they would probably pass. Or if too many students fail their state exams the state simply lowers the passing grade as New York did last year. Something like 39% of the high school seniors passed until the score was changed which brought the level up to 70%.

[Wilafur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7305568#post7305568 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Agu
Teachers are under paid, and if you complain about the quality of teachers it's because of the pay scale. imo, that is utter bullcrud. as mentioned before, no one forced them to become a teacher. they knew what they were in for (at least the pay) so you are doing a great disservice by essentially saying teachers are not trying to become better because they are not paid as much as other industries.

[jgoodrich71]

Trust me, I'm not trying to dog on teachers. My wife, my brother's wife, my mother, my grandmother, and my wife's mother were/are teachers. I guess because I am surrounded by them, I get tired of hearing how they are underpaid.:p

But, having gone through school, and knowing so many teachers, I feel that being a teacher is not that difficult of a job. If more were not willing to teach, then pay rates would have to increase to be able to attract more into teaching.

But when I was in college, the less intellegent people I knew were education majors. That's not saying education majors are all unintelligent.

But when someone says that teachers should be earning over $100,000/year, that's just ridiculous.

As long as I 'm making everyone mad, I don't think teachers should major in education. I think they should major in the area that they are going to teach in, and minor in education. I know a biology teacher that only took about 3 or 4 biology classes. How is that going to provide enough education to be able to teach that subject.

[KafudaFish]

jgoodrich71,
I agree on many of your points. My wife is a high school biology teacher with around 50 hours of college and graduate level biology classes with a M.S. in Education. There are teachers who are education majors that take just the core requirements such as Bio I and Bio II that can now teach high school. Or math or history etc.

I would love for my wife to make 100K/yr. I would be a teacher in a heart beat then. But she doesn't and there is nothing we can do about that. She enjoys teaching the subject but hates all of the B.S. and P.C. that goes with it. But that is with any job.

Oh and as far as stress she has been in lock down due to a prisoner escape with shooting, evcauated due to a bomb threat, numerous students carrying weapons and drugs, as well as all those personal problems the students bring from home.

Because of her experiences, both about other teachers and the students we are going to home school our children. And John, home school children are not socially inept. They can have as many social experiences as any high school student. How many people did you go to high school with that were socially inept?

[ShannonT]

Depending on what grade level you want to teach, you don't choose your major, the state board of education does. And they all require you to have a degree/certificate/license in education -- but not necessarily your teaching field.

My husband would never even dream of switching jobs with me for one day. He's heard too much of what my days are actually like.

[John Karavias]

kfish,

I agree there are many socially inept high schoolers however homeschooling is extremely challenging. Good luck. Also, Teaching is an industry that requires all to have at least a masters. Not many jobs I can think of require that much schoolong. Also I can't imagine a bio teacher only taking 4 bio classes. What state? As for me,I have a b.s. in bio and a b.s. in education and a masters of science. 4 classes short of my second masters n environmental studies.

I used to think flag men on road construction jobs had a cake job. Than I became a flagman on crane work and rigging. It sucks to be yelled at all day b/c people have to follow a detour and I have to wear steel tip boots b/c the cabs try to run your toes over. Flagging is harder than it seems.

Grass is always greener.........

jk

[Brewen]

John Karavias : I was a special ed. teacher on Long Island, I was wondering where you are teaching? Just from the description I had I few thoughts.

[John Karavias]

nailed it on the head. LI NY

jk

[KafudaFish]

John,
Perhaps a Masters is required in NY but here in TN you only have to have a B.S. I know the jokes can come quickly. If a teacher holds a Masters then he or she does not have to take continuing education classes unlike a B.S. degree teacher.
Shannon: Do you take classes in the subject you teach or do you learn your background as on the job training?
Mike

[John Karavias]

I guess things are all different state wide

jk

[ShannonT]

Mike,

I've taken classes both in my subject areas and education in general.

I have a BS in Chemistry, and minor in Biology, and was a class shy of a minor in English. I worked in research for a few years, then decided I wanted to teach. So I went back to college for my teaching certificate. I started wanting to teach the sciences, but had horrible experiences, so I decided to teach English instead.

I finished my certificate one class shy of a BA in English, even though I have 45 credits in it. Some silly intro class requirement that I didn't need at one college, but the other wanted.

I've worked with some really great teachers. Then there are others who are so stupid I wonder how they are still breathing. :lol:

I think according to the new OH requirements I need to end up with a MA in Education, but not necessarily in my subject area. Some people choose curriculum or administration instead.

[KafudaFish]

Shannon,
Ok I understand. At first I thought a science background teacher might end up teaching history with no history knowledge. That is cool that you went back. Too bad more teachers have not returned to teaching from another career field. I think it would help in the long run.
John, I think that every state is heading towards tougher teacher requirements such as education level and student performance. I just have mixed feelings about the student performance since some areas are correlating that to pay.
Yeah I often wonder how most of my high school teachers can walk in a straight line. I did have one or two that I still respect to this day. Of course they were harder at the time than others.

[asphaltpilot]

1 - The Teachers Union sucks. They serve little purpose and don't work for the teachers that pay dues to help them out.

2 - There's little incentive for teachers to stay in the field when they can put up with 1/3 the BS with double the pay in another career field.

3 - Every State wants more experienced, educated teachers, but doesn't want to pay for higher education. A Master's degree bumps a teachers pay about $1000/year here in FL. Weak.

On average, Florida looks for 15K new teachers every single year. Gee, I wonder why. Instead of helping/paying the current teachers, they recruit out of state for new ones.

[KafudaFish]

Ashpahltpilot:
#1 I agree. Every year the teachers' union asks my wife to join "because of all the hard work to do and if you ever need anything such as a lawyer they are there for you". Her yearly pay raise just about equals the dues and they have nothing to do with it.
#2 yes
#3. A M.S. pays a little better per year here than yours. Basically the scale is like 2 or 3 years experience with B.S.

[Sloth]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7304413#post7304413 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jgoodrich71
(I took my HS exit exam in 8th grade, lol)
Really, you took a test? Well...









...how about that.:rolleye1:

[BigSkyBart]

time for a little levity..
My nephew at the ripe old age of 10, having been reprimanded for unruly behaviour in class, announced he was going to quit school and get a job.
When asked what a little boy with a 4th grade education could possible do to earn a living, he simply replied...
"I think I'll be a 3rd grade teacher, I learned all that stuff last year."

[reefman30]

Wow what a discussion from somehting I thought was light hearted. I was meaning for it to be sorta like a joke. :lol:

Here is a link to the minimum pay for a teacher in Texas.
http://www.tea.state.tx.us/school.finance/salary/index.html


School districts can pay more but not less. The district I am at pays $2500 above minimum no matter what your experience and only $500 more per year for a masters or PhD. At 20 years experience or more the state pays $41,770. :eek1:

Now if Texas requires me getting a masters at some point. I will be looking for a new job.

[Stephany]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7305622#post7305622 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by KafudaFish

Actually teaching is one of the top 3 most stressful jobs out there behind cop and fireman I believe. Also most teachers quit after 5 years of teaching for better pay or less stress.


High school exit exams/Gateway exams are a joke in almost every state.

I'm pretty sure air traffic controller, cardiovascular perfusionist, and some other things would come before teacher. I know there's high turnover, but the pay is a big influence as well as location.

Yea... The exams, the scores, the curves are a joke. I agree. :)

[KafudaFish]

Stephany,
You are right. Iit is not one of the top 3 stressful jobs out there. It is number 4 on the list behind: prison officer, police, and social work here in the US. In Britian, do not want to forget you guys, it is top 2: social work and teaching. Your listing did not make the top 20.
Does anyone realize what these jobs have in common? Dealing with other people and the problems associated with them.

[Sk8r]

John, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I started at 4000.00 a year before taxes with a master's, and when I got out, I'd worked my way up to 10000 after 7 years service. I took kids to hospitals, talked them out of suicide/running away/buying guns and running them; I bought supplies out of my own pocket and threw two adult gang members out of the building: they'd attacked a guy who ran to my class for shelter. In my spare time I sponsored 4 clubs and taught enrichment classes before hours---not to mention serving as foreign student counselor for no extra pay. Teachers deal with the same clientele as cops---the whole range of the general public, good and bad---only teachers do it unarmed.

[John Karavias]

Sk8tr,

Right on brother. Actually have friends of friends in Spokane.

I love what I do. I will retire knowing 3,000 people will remember something about me. Hopefully good stuff. Not too many jobs can say that.