Peppermint Shrimp babies

[DMBillies]

I have 4 Peppermint shrimp and in the last 2 weeks I've had larvae released into my tank twice that I know of (it looks like 2 are carrying eggs as we speak, so the fourth that I've never seen with eggs must be a busy guy). The larvae always seem to get released around midnight, which I've read is normal. Now, to my point... I'd like to try to raise them as a first little foray into breeding. I don't know anything about it except that I know I need to get the larvae out of the tank very quickly and into another tank with just an airstone. My real problem concerns how in the world I feed them? I've heard baby brine shrimp will do the trick until they are big enough to go for cyclopeze. The problem then is that I have to learn how to raise brine shrimp and time it out so that I have bbs when I have baby peppermint shrimp. Anyone try to do this before and have some advice? In the meantime, my fish will just enjoy a nice peppermint shrimp smorgasbord every week or so.

[cee]

BBS are easy, relatively speaking. Just save your 2 liter coke bottles and cut the bottoms off. Then drill a hole in the lid and silicone in some rigid airline. Inverted, this becomes your hatching chamber with an airpump supplying a stream of bubbles (use a gang valve so you don't get a rolling boil, just a steady stream). In go the eggs, and about 24 hours later, out come the bbs. Send me your address and I'll send you a bottle of eggs, enough to last you quite awhile.

Dave

[Fishboy42]

Congrats on the spawning shrimp, and on the decision to try to raise a few! I raised a few batches for fun several months ago and then dumped a couple dozen in to my aiptasia farm, oh, I mean reeftank, and gave away the rest. It was definitely an educational experience. I'll try to offer any help I can :)

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7216618#post7216618 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DMBillies
I know I need to get the larvae out of the tank very quickly and into another tank with just an airstone. My real problem concerns how in the world I feed them? I've heard baby brine shrimp will do the trick until they are big enough to go for cyclopeze.

Getting them out of the tank is probably the hardest part(!) If you turn off all water flow during the hatching time, the babies will be attracted to light and you can siphon them out with a small hose into a separate tank. Then you will need the brine shrimp-- Dave's advice on that is right-on. Cyclop-eeze (the freeze-dried variety) will be readily taken in a few weeks, and from there on out they are regular shrimp! It may help to use a little microalgae to "cloud" the water in the larval tank for the first week or two, as there are several benefits to having live algae with the larvae. Hope this helps, and let us know how it goes!

Matt

[Mikeyjer]

If the babies survive, I'll take some!! I have a lot of aiptasia and majano anemone for them to feed on!!! Good Luck! :)

[DMBillies]

The 4 that I have are not shy and munched down on the couple of Aiptasia that I had... so, hopefully their babies have similar dispositions. This is all assuming that I can get any of them to survive of course.

[rcmike]

If you found some that eat manjano anemones I'd take a bunch. :lol: Peppermint shrimp won't touch them.

[DMBillies]

I built my brine shrimp hatchery today out of a miracle mud container. I put airline tube through the bottom and drilled some holes to put suctions cups on one side. The idea being to stick it to the side of the tank so that the top of the container is above the water line. I drilled a hole in the lid so that a little bit of air could escape but so that salt from the bubbles breaking at the surface wouldn't get all over the inside of my hood. If it works I will post pics. It was really easy to make and, as of right now, actually looks decent and seems like it will work nicely (unlike most things that I make).

Now I have some questions... I was thinking about putting some small pieces of live rock and some chaeto in the tank that I am planning on raising the baby peppermints in. My thought was that this would help keep things stable (since filtering isn't an option once the babies are in) and maybe give them places to hide. Is this a bad idea? Do I need to worry that 'pods or other critters in the live rock will dispatch the newly hatched shrimp? Better to go totally bare?

Thanks in advance for any further advice.

[Fishboy42]

Sounds like you are on your way! I'd like to see pics of the brine hatcher if you get a chance to post them.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7241989#post7241989 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DMBillies

Now I have some questions... I was thinking about putting some small pieces of live rock and some chaeto in the tank that I am planning on raising the baby peppermints in. My thought was that this would help keep things stable (since filtering isn't an option once the babies are in) and maybe give them places to hide. Is this a bad idea? Do I need to worry that 'pods or other critters in the live rock will dispatch the newly hatched shrimp? Better to go totally bare?

Thanks in advance for any further advice.

After the peppermint shrimp hatch out from the eggs, they will be planktonic for several weeks. They need to float freely in the water column (this is where they catch their brine shrimp food). I wouldn't add anything other than a heater and an airstone to the tank, as anything "organic" may introduce stinging organisms that could be harmful to the larvae, and the baby shrimp could get trapped in the rock or algae.

Since you are adding only live food to the tank in the beginning, it will cycle very slowly, so no filtration is needed. As long as you don't scrub them, there will be enough surface area on the glass walls of the tank to support the bacterial colonies needed for filtration. After the shrimp have settled out, some rock or algae would be fine, but it still isn't necessary, as they will hide in it, and you may never see them again!

[gflat65]

Matt,

Will he need to control the airstone to prevent the larvae from getting stuck on the surface of the water? May be a dumb question, but my spidey senses are tingling;).

[Fishboy42]

I've thought about that Gary, but I've never had a problem with it. I think it's because I usually use a valve to control the flow to the airstone--only a small amount of air is needed--enough to provide circulation. An airstone connected directly to the pump running "full-out" would probably cause that problem though. I've seen this happen at a research shrimp farm (for edible shrimp) where "PL's" (postlarvae) were splattered on the walls of the culture vessel because of too much air, so it is something to consider.

The larvae (fish and shrimp) actually seem to avoid going near the airstone, so it is important to make sure the currents are weak enough that they are able to do so, although a gentle current throughout the tank is still desired. This is where it's hard to help with the typed word--I understand that "just adjust it so it looks right" doesn't really help...:rolleyes:

[DMBillies]

Spidey senses are usually good... I currently have a 4-way (hold the lewd comments :D) gang valve attached to my brine shrimp hatchery and I was planning on just putting 3 small stones in the main part of the tank where the larvae are going to go. I figure by messing with the valves I'll be able to keep a pretty slow stream of bubbles going out of a couple of small airstones without blowing larvae out of the top of the tank. It seems like less is more when it comes to this as I have heard that too much air/flow can break their limbs and kill them (aside from sticking them to the top or blowing them out of the tank). One of the mama shrimps looks like it's going to pop any day now (I keep going down and checking tonight) so I think I'll be able to give this a go soon. I appreciate the input and I'll keep everyone updated. Any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

[DMBillies]

Ok, so here are some pictures of the brine shrimp hatchery. This is not mind blowing rocket science or anything, but it seems like a pretty good design so far and might come in handy for someone else.

Here's the biosediment container that I used.
http://static.flickr.com/56/135681081_fbc1e495be_b.jpg

Finished and in the tank.
http://static.flickr.com/49/135681082_b60de01038_b.jpg

I just drilled a hole in the white top to let the air out but keep the bubbles from the airstone that break at the surface from spraying water on the inside of my hood. When you need inside, you just screw the top off. I drilled a small hole in the bottom and pulled the airhose through it and stuck the stone on the inside. For the suction cups I used airline holders. I just pushed the rubber through holes in the side and then put the airline clips on the inside. This expanded the holes in the suction cups enough so they wouldn't pull out. By drilling all holes pretty tight it kept me from having to silicone anything. They aren't quite water tight (although tight enough that the brine shrimp won't escape), but I don't plan on using it outside of the tank. If I ever do, some super glue/silicone will firm everything up and take care of it. You could do this with a soda bottle (as originally suggested) but the biosediment container had nice thick sides that won't give as much as a soda bottle would.

I got the last of a buddies pinch of eggs yesterday and there are brine shrimp already hatched less than 24 hours later. So, now I just need one of my shrimp to cooperate...

[DMBillies]

Since I'm posting pics... here's one of the expectant mothers. As can be seen from how close up this is (using a regular old point and shoot Kodak DX7630), they aren't very shy.

http://static.flickr.com/46/124388912_c265f94f59_b.jpg

[Fishboy42]

Lookin' good! Spidey senses won't steer you wrong. Seems like that shrimp should be releasing fairly soon too.

I don't know if you had a plan for collecting the brine shrimp (or you may know this already), but if you turn off the air and shine a light in one area of your hatching vessel, they will form a dense swarm, and you can use a transfer pipette or turkey baster to move them into the larval shrimp tank.

For the air in the larval tank, I usually use a single airstone. I know others often use multiple airstones (or outlets without airstones), but I've had better luck with just a single airstone wedged beneath the heater. Not that you have to do any/all of these things, but I thought I'd throw it out there ;)

[imsqueak]

What's the plan to remove the decapsulated egg shells? When I've hatched brine that was my biggest problem. I found a plan for a 2L that didn't use an airstone. I could shine a flashlight at the tip of the air hose and siphon out the hachlings while the shells floated and when I got as much as I could I'd dump the rest and clean out the bottle to start another batch. PITA but I'd read the egg shells can cause gastro problems if fish eat them.

Maybe that's not an issue with baby shrimp because maybe they are too small or smart to eat the shells. I've heard of decapsulated brine eggs (dont know how they can do that and not kill the BBS but I guess they can), maybe youre using those...?

[Fishboy42]

I do what you do squeak, I have a recipe for decapsulation (uses bleach), and have found the decapsulated shrimp to be better for lots of reasons. They do sink when first hatched, so I find it easier to collect from the bottom when using those. I don't think it will be necessary here, since fish "gulp" their food and shrimp catch it with their appendanges and "eat on it." The shrimp shouldn't be bothered as much by a few stray shells.

[DMBillies]

My plan was to siphon them out as you described. I've never heard of decapsulated brine eggs. It hadn't occured to me that it would cause problems with the fish but I was planning on siphoning out the brine shrimp seperately anyway. And, as Fishboy says, I can't imagine it would cause a problem for the shrimp.

[DMBillies]

We noticed our fish going mad about 15 minutes ago and it was because one of the shrimp let their brood go. We shut off all filters and powerheads and used a flashlight to attract them. I would say we got upwards of 150 little shrimp transfered to the 10 gallon. ALL of the ones that I can see are moving their little legs and seem to be surprisingly active after the siphoning. I put some of the bbs in and a little bit of marine snow. I also started another little batch of brine so that there will be some really small bbs by tomorrow. We'll see how well the peppermints do. Once again, any advice would be welcome.

[Mikeyjer]

I wish I could help with info. But I know nothing about it, good luck raising them. I'll be interested in some once they're ready. :)

[DMBillies]

I just thought somebody out there might be interested in seeing a pic of the Peppermint larvae (plus I'm so close to 100 posts and getting to put on my own fancy avatar). I took this picture yesterday (3 days old). There are still easily about 100 kicking around in there.

http://static.flickr.com/53/138862661_768d2f4e58_b.jpg

[Mikeyjer]

Very nice!!!! I definatelly WANT some!!! It's great since these comes with hatch date and all... :D

[Fishboy42]

Nice picture! One more post and you could put that little guy in your avatar!

[DMBillies]

Well, it's been almost 2 weeks since the Peppermint Shrimp hatched, so I thought I should give an update. There's a pic of them below with what they looked like as of 2 days ago. Their abdomens are starting to turn red in the middle (which thankfully makes them much easier to see... I think I'm going to go blind from peering into the tank). They are also spending increasing amount of time on the bottom of the tank and they are destroying the brine shrimp, I almost can't hatch enough. I'm thinking I'll start them on some cyclopeeze in a couple of days. I've seen a couple of dead ones on the bottom of the tank (like 5) but I still haven't noticed any severe die off yet. Well, at the very least I'm vastly exceeding my low expectations. I'd estimate that there are still at least 75 but there is no way in heck I can actually count these little buggers.

http://static.flickr.com/56/144280339_8a9084e899_b.jpg

[CKreef]

let me know when they grow up like to have some

[liverock]

Good job raising them, very hard to do!!

I could use a few thousand!<G>

You are now in the upper class of larva guys!

Richard
:rollface: :rollface: :rollface:

[rcmike]

Very cool! I have to be honest, when I first saw your post I thought, "Oh boy, somebody else who is going to try and raise them and fail." I have heard of many people trying but very few succeed.

[Fishboy42]

Great progress! From the looks of that last pic, you should be seeing settlement in a week or two, great job, keep us updated!

Matt

[cee]

I'm glad the BS eggs were still viable for you. Looks like you're going to have a bunch to get rid of soon! Great job!

Dave

[DMBillies]

live rock: I'm going to need a new operation if I'm going to deliver a thousand... I'd be glad to have a sponsor though :D

Thanks for the encouragement. I may still fail, but I'm having a blast anyway (and learning in the process)... and that's what it's all about.

[liverock]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7343245#post7343245 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DMBillies
live rock: I'm going to need a new operation if I'm going to deliver a thousand... I'd be glad to have a sponsor though :D

Thanks for the encouragement. I may still fail, but I'm having a blast anyway (and learning in the process)... and that's what it's all about.

There is a professor at the University of San Antonio that has been doing this for years, a young lady, but her name escapes me, she is considered to be the guru of raising peps!

Some searching should turn up her name!

Thanks
TBS