RO/DI, What to buy?

[21Reefman]

I want the cleanest h2o poss and just started the RO/DI research. I think 25-60gpd is what size I want.
I have looked at the Kent DMAX60HIS, 4stage, and the SpectraPure, Spectraplus2000, 5 stage.

Any, advice? I would sure appreciate it! Thanks.

[21Reefman]

bump

[smleee]

You are on the right track. Some things to remember when choosing and RO/DI unit.

1. Make sure and get a genuine DOW FilmTec membrane. These are the best performing membranes available. Some sellers make other claims, but are flat out lying.

2. Full size vertical DI canisters. Hollow horizontal DI tubes are not as affective even when mounted vertically and/or packed tightly with resin.

3. Carbon block prefilters, not GAC.

4. Customer service.

eee

[stewie24]

www.airwaterice.com
The typhoon III
I just bought it. I have 327 tds tap, and 8 from the ro, 0 from ro/di. Comes with a tds meter as well. From what i hear they have good customer service.
Good unit, IMO.
Its the 75 gpd model.
Stewie

[smleee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083275#post7083275 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stewie24
www.airwaterice.com
The typhoon III
I just bought it. I have 327 tds tap, and 8 from the ro, 0 from ro/di. Comes with a tds meter as well. From what i hear they have good customer service.
Good unit, IMO.
Its the 75 gpd model.
Stewie

That is one model that fits the bill to a "T". They have excellent customer service.

eee

[drock59]

smleee, what is GAC and why is it bad. Havnt heard that term before.

[psimitry]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083428#post7083428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by drock59
smleee, what is GAC and why is it bad. Havnt heard that term before.

GAC = granulated activated carbon

[smleee]

It is not bad by any means. It is my understanding that the carbon blocks will absorb cloramine better than GAC, but that is not a "real" problem in most areas I believe, either is usually enough. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though.

eee

[AZDesertRat]

GAC or carbon blocks either one are not very effective on chloramines. Your best bet for chloramines is an arrangement of two 10" canisters in series containing granular catalytic carbon. It is a hybrid product that is not nearly as common as the previously mentioned two forms but does a great job on chloramines given the proper contact time.

You are on the right track with the Spectrapure units, they are unquestionably the best in the business, but they do come at a price. If you do not have any special or unusual water conditions that require special medias like the catalytic carbon or special DI resin mixes you might conside the Typhoon III from www.airwaterice.com .
This is a dynamite RO/DI with everything you would ever need including a TDS meter, pressure gauge, standard size refillable DI and even a float valve when you mention being a RC member. All the components are high quality brand name and their customer service is top notch. There is no reason to not get a 75 GPD unit, the removal or rejection rating is still 98% same as the 25 to 60 GPD units, the physical size is the same and it will make the same amount of water up to 3 times faster.
Just a suggestion but again Spectrapure makes great units and they are local for me which is a plus.

[drock59]

AZDesertRat, are you saying that chloramines will get through the RO/DI unit if it doesnt have Granular Catalytic Carbon?

[smleee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7083712#post7083712 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AZDesertRat
GAC or carbon blocks either one are not very effective on chloramines. Your best bet for chloramines is an arrangement of two 10" canisters in series containing granular catalytic carbon. It is a hybrid product that is not nearly as common as the previously mentioned two forms but does a great job on chloramines given the proper contact time.


So is it worth it to switch out to catalytic carbon? Or are we usually ok with the GAC or carbon blocks?

eee

[drock59]

seems like it is ok or vendors would switch them out due to complaints but who knows.

[DirtySouth056]

Bryan at www.purelyh2o.com is great to deal with. I've had great service from him and he's offering a 10% RC member discount for on-line orders.
His Optima series (75 GPD) has everything you need.
The coupon code is RCDJB8HL.
Bryan is active here and helps a lot of folks.
There are other units from other vendors, but I have not dealt with them personally.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taken from another thread^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=808443&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

My Order experience below: As of 20 min ago!

Thanks I just placed an order, I was given a call by them BEFORE I finished placing my order. Talk about customer service! I also got $19.00 off w/ discount code. I feel really good about this purchase. Thanks Bryan!

[AZDesertRat]

Yes. RO is not effective for chloramine removal at all. Normal carbon will adsorb only the chlorine portion but allow the ammonia on. DI is only marginally effective at removal. 20" of catalytic carbon is the best available technology at least for today.
If you do a quick search for catalytic carbon there are a couple of good papers available.
I know www.purelyh2o.com sells catalytic carbon and I am sure there are others too. Remember though for it to be effective you need 2 cartridges of it plumbed in series so it slowly passes through the entire bed for it to work best. Personally I would follow the carbon with either a 1 micron carbon block or a 1 micron prefilter to trap any fines or carbon dust that might be created so it does not get passed on to the membrane.

[drock59]

wow that sucks, so you are telling me i would be better off dosing Prime to my RO/DI water. Why have I not heard this before?

[AZDesertRat]

Chloramines, their removal and their effects are a fairly new subject for reefkeepers. For daily drinking water and other uses chloramines are not an issue.
Here is a very short article or catalytic carbon use.

http://www.aquadirectinfo.com/ro/chloramine.pdf

Here is a paper GE Water did on using normal GAC carbon but note the amount of carbon and the contact times needed to be only partially effective. Catalytic carbon seems to be the way to go if you want it 100% removed or anywhere close to that. Its the ammonia that is the problem.

http://www.aquadirectinfo.com/ro/chloramine.pdf

[drock59]

AZDesertRat, would a simple way to get rid of the chloramine after RO/DI be to use seachem Prime? THis was a big reason why I got my RO/DI so that i wouldnt have to use chemicals. :(

[purelyh2o]

The RO DI will take care of the Chloramine you will just need to remove the block and replace it with a catalyic carbon. The process of chloramine removal is reactive and there needs to be a bit more contact time in order for it to be removed correctly. A carbon block filter works by the canister filling up and then the water is forced through the wall of the filter to the center where it is then channeled upwards and continues on to the next filter. The catalytic carbon in GAC form allows for the use of an upflow filter which in order for the water to continue to the next stage it must travel up through the bottom of the filter and through the entire bed of carbon to move on. Running 2 in series is the best way due to more contact time. Slow process through the filter is also effective as this causes more contact time and less channeling. If you would like to figure out what the best way is for your situation feel free to give me a call and we can get into more detail :)

[21Reefman]

Thanks, for all the info. I have been looking into it more.
Is there somewhere that I can see a setup using the 20" of catalytic?

What is the issue with coral life, or something from Home Depot? Are they that inferior? Is it the unit or the water quality that is inferior?

I think I have a high silica source. Does silica show up on a TDS meter?

[purelyh2o]

The most common issue I have seen with the Coralife unit is that the DI does not bring the TDS down to zero for some reason. Regarding the Home Depot system, Im pretty sure they do not sell RO DI systems, just RO systems. Also they are drinking water systems and are not designed for Aquarium use and may have components in them that are OK for us but not OK for the fish :)

[21Reefman]

Whoa,.....Um, What' with the RC logo? The Sohal is upsidedown.?

[purelyh2o]

THAT is classic!!!!

[21Reefman]

I ask about the lesser brands incase I have to defend my reasons for this purchase to others, and of course cheaper looks better to most people.

Is the 20" of catalytic overkill, how many reefers do this? What effect do chloramines have in the system? Is the chlorine still gone?

Is any of this really necessary?

What would you say to someone only using RO, from filters that are expired?

[AZDesertRat]

20" of catalytic carbon may not be necessary. You have to ask yourself, "How much ammonia can I live with ?" If you want a complete absence then yes you probably need 20". If your system can process a small amount of ammonia as most do if you have fish then you should be fine with 10". If you are doing an SPS only bare bottom low nutrient system then I would use the 20".
As to using RO only and with little or no maintenance, if it is being used 100% for the aquariums and there is absolutely positively no possibility of human consumption then they are just an idiot. If they are consuming this water themselves they are asking for proobably health problems and even more so for visitors who consume the water. You know what water from Mexico does to you, bad RO water is worse. I have personally witness people being hospitalized twice from drinking water from RO systems they didn't even know they had in rental homes. No one had ever shown them the units or how to service them. I performed bacteria and viruse tests on them and you really don't want to know what we found. Suffice to say change your elements every six months regardless of how much water has passed through them and disinfect the filter housings during filter changes. Better safe than sorry.

[purelyh2o]

There is nothing wrong with doing your homework before you buy, I know I do :)

Regarding the 20 inch cat carbon, That would be fine as the more contact time the better. Doubling the amount of carbon the water has to pass through will double the contact time and this can only be a good thing.

Is it necessary to take steps towards removing ammonia from the water if you know its there? Absolutely, anything otherwise would be considered irresponsible. Those guys depend on you to survive :)

Regarding the expired RO system, Thats sort of like having a car with no motor. In fact the RO system can develope a little eco system inside itself if not used correctly and this can actually put more into your water than you originaly had to deal with. An RO DI system is a good tool for allowing for a clean slate to start with and gives you more control of your water parameters prior to the tank. It is a good addition to a solid maintenance routine and is certainly not the only answer. Some water problems are inside the tank and not from the feed water at all. Some problems may be allowed to exist by being fed from the feedwater and this can be slowed or stopped by removing the elements in the water that enable these things to survive. Lets consider an RO DI system more of a preventative addition to your routine. Always keep an eye on the levels in your tank and by all means keep the filters and membrane working correctly or the system can do more harm than good. The addition of an RO DI system to a tank that has been running on tap water for a while can benefit you in a few ways. First it will begin to leach the contaminents from your sand bed and rock where when continuing to add the same tap water that has been adding these contaminants from the start will only add to the accumulation and in time like a sponge reach a point where it can not be absorbed any longer and begin returning it to the tank in an evolved form. An example is that in time ammonia will break down to nitrites and nitrates. Water by nature is aggressive and minus the TDS has an acidic value and a below neutral Ph value. It will naturally seek out elements to regain its nuetral value. This goes for your aquarium as well and when RO DI water is used with your water changes and top offs it is very effective in slowly removing toxins from the water. As the toxins are removed from the water the sand bed and rock will begin to let go of the toxins as well so they can be removed in the next water change :)

Hope this helps :)

[purelyh2o]

Excellent answer!

[21Reefman]

Thanks, I'm lovin' the knowledge!! Here were a few Q's I still have.

(When using a low end RO unit)What effect do chloramines have in the system? Is the chlorine still gone?

Does silica show up on a TDS meter?

Is there somewhere that I can see (photo) a setup using the 20" of catalytic?

[ernordstrom]

I just got this one as well and Brian gave me a float valve for free just for being an RC member. They have great customer service, a top notch product and the prices can't be beat... I know 200 is alot but you are gettting everything you will need for great water. I live in Florida and I got my Typhoon in 2 days after ordering. AIRWATERICE ROCKS! You will want the 75gpd model because the 200 gpd lets more stuff go past..90% rejection vs 98% thus keeping your DI alive longer...

www.airwaterice.com
The typhoon III