anyone have southdown bags to sell me?

[nemo g]

im starting to load up on supplies for my new tank. southdown is up on my list.

so whether you have some, can get some, or know someone who has it, let me know.

il make it worth your while ;)

nemo G

[mr pink floyd]

i got some from tsquad, he gave me a 50 lb bag, but hes settign up a new tank, so hes gonan need it, he said you can get it in the summer, because its the sand people use for playgrounds nad sandboxes, try asking around home depot

[nemo g]

ive been doing just that, and they either:

a.dont have what i need (maybe summer)
b.dont know what the heck im talking about (mostly this one)
c.only carry silica play sand.

this is what im looking for, right? :

<img src="http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/116775tps.jpg"/>

[tsquad]

Silica sand is chemically fine. Try to find one that has the same grain size/shape as Southdown/commercial stuff would have, and a color that appeases you.

[nemo g]

i would prefer aragonite. for myself, the extra buffering capacity alone is worth the trouble to either find or buy the "commercial" stuff.

[tsquad]

It would only buffer your water if the pH was low enough to dissolve it. By that time, everything in your tank would be dead or dying. Lots of myths about sand.

[nemo g]

not from what ive read. ill see if i can find it, but an article i came across said

"when the ph of the water dips below 8.2 the aragonite begins to brak down and consequently raises ph till it rises about 8.2, then it stops.

do you have any info that verifies the "aragonite as a buffer" is a myth?

ill look for the other stuff in the meanwhile

[nemo g]

heres an excerpt from a garf.org article.

giving another excellent reason, other than just buffering, to use aragonite:

"Aragonite sand should be used in the "live sand " filter. It is a fairly rare form of calcium carbonate mixed with other elements The most common places it is found is in ancient sea beds where it has been deposited by animals and plants. The skeletal remains of coral, tube worms, and calcifying algae are all sources of aragonite. Some of the best aragonite I have seen is found in Florida and is mined by a company called Carib Sea. Their Sea Floor Special Grade Reef Sand (product number 00050 or 00020) is made entirely of an aragonite which is stable at a pH of 8.2-8.4, the range in which we wish to maintain in our aquariums. It is graded to approximately 3 mm, the perfect size for the sand bed. The acids produced by biological activity are primarily formed in the sand bed, where they are neutralized by the buffer capacity of the aragonite. One result is the formation of CO2 in the sand. Because this type of aragonite begins to dissolve when the pH drops below 8-8.2 the lowering of the pH by the Carbon Dioxide in the sand releases the minerals trapped in the aragonite; calcium, carbonates, borates, magnesium, strontium and others that where laid down by animals in the seas long ago. These are then diffused into our aquarium to be used by the animals that we keep. This is similar to the principle of a calcium reactor, but it is carried out in a more natural way"

heres the link for the article. its about half way down the page:

http://www.garf.org/news1p4.html

[Rockym]

Aragonite has always worked for me.

[Shoestring Reefer]

My tank's run with a pH of 7.9 for weeks at a time, with a 100% aragonite DSB. What pH do CA reactors run at?

Silica is fine, but IMO it looks like crap and it's really coarse so you can't see all the critters. I have some silica, covered by some southdown.

[nemo g]

after some time the southdown should settle to the bottom and be covered by the silica.

the smaller praticles will make their way to the bottom of the pile. just like in a creal box, when your getting that last bowl in and all those damn dust particles start fillin in the bowl. i hate that :D

[dc1718]

Wait a few more weeks and go to a Agway, they had tons of it last year. HD no longer carries it. Go to Agway in Late March or April and ask for oldcastle sand. It is Southdown same bag/same sand. They will have it trust me...

[tsquad]

Well, what I meant was, for the CaCO3 to have a significant buffering effect, the pH would be dangerously low. A little bit of CaCO3 dissolved will hardly provide any noticeable buffering.

[nemo g]

ts_squad

even though it may have to be dangerously low, doesnt that make a case for it? if it reacts at "dangerously low levels", it could help stablelize a crash before it happens, no?

and if nothing else, the calcium and other trace elements that are leaked into the water offer yet another benefit of the aragonite.

now if someone already has silica sand in there tank, i could see why they wouldnt want to change it, as it would be a major pain.

but why not start with something that is going to be far more beneficial? especially when its just as inexpensive.

the silica may not have any negatives, but it doesnt have any benefits either. which then means that relatively speaking, it is the inferior choice, no?

[Rockym]

All Home Depot seems to carry in NE CT is Quikcrete brand silica sand.

[tsquad]

It wouldn't buffer the pH, it would buffer the alkalinity. pH is a measure of H+ ions, and there are no H+ ions in aragonite (CaCO3). However, when alk rises, so does pH, exponentially. To raise the pH to a safe level, the alkalinity would have to rise a significant amount. A LOT of your sand bed, an unrealistic amount, would have to dissolve to provide enough carbonates to reach that level. So, even though your alk and pH would be buffered, the pH would still be low, and your animals would still be affected.

You can try to find Southdown now, but it'll be tough. Silica sand, in my opinion, is fine, and is abundant. I'm running 200lbs of Quikrete Extra Fine Play Sand in my tank, topped by 70 or so pounds of Southdown LS from a fellow reefer's refugium. I haven't noticed any adverse affects.

Here is the article with the graphs..http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php

[nemo g]

ok hows this

silica is good

aragonite is better, if you can find it :D

[tsquad]

For looks, yes. But for composition, they are both inert in my book. I'm using Southdown in my new tank, since I love how it looks. But I'd rather not go through the hassle of finding it again. Good luck with whatever you choose :)

[REEF-DADDY]

kolor scape is aragonite and bright white, just a little larger grain size than southdown.

[Shoestring Reefer]

where can we find kolor scape?

[jrodscout]

Southdown lost its supplier for carib. sand last year & partnered up with old castle.They no longer make it.So buy it now if you can.

[REEF-DADDY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6817224#post6817224 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Shoestring Reefer
where can we find kolor scape?

HD in danbury has pallets of it

[paulpp187]

i just bought 30 bags of that kolor scape.i'm putting it in as we speek my tank is so dam cloudy right now.

[REEF-DADDY]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6818653#post6818653 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by paulpp187
i just bought 30 bags of that kolor scape.i'm putting it in as we speek my tank is so dam cloudy right now.


30 :eek2:

How big is your tank?

[paulpp187]

well i bought some extra.my tank is 96x24x25=249 gal

[dc1718]

I WILL REPEAT ONCE AGAIN!!!!

Wait a few more weeks and go to a Agway, they had tons of it last year. HD no longer carries it. Go to Agway in Late March or April and ask for oldcastle sand. It is Southdown same bag/same sand. They will have it trust me...I FILLED MY TANK WITH IT, if it is Southdown you want then wait for Agway.

[SaltwaterDaddy]

I know about the legal issue involving Carib-Sea. Let's just say, I highly doubt you will find 100% silica free Caribbean play sand this year ... anywhere ... including Agway. If you want 100% silica free Caribbean sand, you'll have to go to your LFS. If you know what Agway was shipped at the end of last year's season (I do) ... it's not the same stuff they got prior to July. I'm not here to debate the issue, and I won't comment anymore about this, but I won't hold out waiting for it.

[Rockym]

paulpp187, Did you find it any closer to us NE CT, than Danbury?

[paulpp187]

got it in the lisbon hd.i live 10 min north of you in putnam. they only had like 10 bags left after i got done. saltwaterdaddy is correct you probally will not see anymore true southdown.unless somebody has stock piled it in there basement.it says not for aquarium use and it says it may contain silica but the amount is very small in alot of sand.i've been researching this sand and the silica free stuff. people who use the stuff with small amounts of silica have not really had any problems.