Algae

[TaubBaer]

I am having brown algae problem taking over the tank.... How do I stop this and which animal loves to eat 'em?

[Jesus]

How long has the tank been running? Tanks are usually good for eating algae. But if it is diatom, you need snails.


jesus

[cyclebrkr]

You mean Tangs?

[TaubBaer]

It got worse when I did 10 gal water change in the 20 gal tank. I cleaned the brown stringy off the rocks but new ones are creating on the sand, glass, and rocks. I have 3 dwarf zebra hermit and 2 emerald crabs.

Do I need to get blueleg and scarlet reef hermits? What about horseshoe crab? Cerith snail?

[cyclebrkr]

You have a pretty small tank, so i wouldn't recommend any tangs. Your best bet is to try and remove it by hand.

[TaubBaer]

I need to take a picture or I can find the picture somewhere.... unless you knew what I'm talking about.

[lanxang]

Welcome to RC.

How long has your tank been setup? What kind of lighting are you using?

[TaubBaer]

I had this 20 gal for many months, I noticed that after water changes, I keep getting those brown algaes first several days then they went away. I changed the waters last Saturday.

I have an Coralife Linar 130 watts, 24" width on the stand pegs. The skimmer is Red Sea hang over and the filter is H.O.T.

[lanxang]

what kind of water are you using? Like tap, filter, etc... If you're using tap, are you letting it sit for a while before putting it in your tank?

[TaubBaer]

I bought the RO water and RO salt water from Carter's store on March Lane.

[lanxang]

Have you thought about mixing your own? I did the same thing because I was lazy and bought one from one of the local store (not saying which). I told my cousin to use the same water. About a week later, we both got a visit from cyano. In fact I'm still fighting it.

Another thing you might not be aware of is that the salinity level is way to low to make it cost effective. I tested Carter's salt water about a year ago and it was around 1.022 or 1.023. A tank salinity should be near 1.025. I'm not sure if it has change since then.

[TaubBaer]

Carter's salt water was abit high so I added ro water to pull the salt down.

[lanxang]

when you go there the next time, ask them to test the water (test for ph, nitrate, nitrite, etc). at least this will rule it out.

[Bdimas]

Could be high phosphates or nitrates? What are your parameters?

[TaubBaer]

I haven't tested the water for parameters.

[MrMonkeyFingers]

I think a lot has to do with the weather too, I'm noticing a little brown in mine too but not the long hair algea but I noticed a little at my tank at work and a friend of mine... seems like when the weather takes a turn like it has with the warmer weather I see a change in my tanks

[Bdimas]

I would test it.

[TaubBaer]

I need to take some pictures of those so we're on the same track...

[TaubBaer]

My 20g tank -
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00370.jpg

LS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00362.jpg

LR:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00360.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00361.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00367.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00374.jpg

H.O.T. 220:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00376.jpg

Red Sea Skimmer:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00375.jpg

Showing the water temp.:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/TaubBaer/Saltwater%20Tank/DSC00377.jpg

[TaubBaer]

Correction:
It is NOT brown , the color is maroon or red wine.

[bigeyetuna]

I have the same stuff on my tank. It is my understanding this is normal for new tanks and will eventually go away. I hope so anyway. I was told to increase water flow and keep performing water changes.

I didn't know about the salinity issue though. Mine averages just over 1.023. All other key parameters are close to 0.

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0 (last time I checked)
Ca 350 - 420
Phos < .03
Temp runs a little high 81 - 83 (need to get some fans on the water)

If you find a quick fix, I would like to know.

[lanxang]

that looks like cyano.

[spoon25]

thats red algae like he said it goes away in new tanks or tanks with too many nutrients....get rid of all your nutrients...i see you have iron or something on your stand...chuck it all...beleieve me i learned the hard way addin all sorts of crap to it, i was just feeding it...

[TaubBaer]

spoon25, this bottle is an liquid calcium for my two newly soft corals.

[spoon25]

well ok what kind of salt do you use....u shouldnt use that stuff unless your tank is exploding with corals and your havin cal probloms...here is a link on the various salts check it out...look for phosphates and other chemicals that contribute to algae growth...now if your havin cal problems check for alk problems too cuz they work in conjuction with one another....and far as water changes go i think 5 gallons a week is plenty dont do it too much, cuz your tank looks like it needs to be cycled still...and dont buy cycle crap for it either...the stuff causes more problems....

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1
Salt by shimek

[MrMonkeyFingers]

for the time being you can pull it off the sand with your hand or use a turkey baster to suck it up.. kind of a pain with the baster but at least use your hand and pull it off the sand! I still say weather change has a lot to do with it...

[rulesmith]

I would look at flow and feeding. Cut back your feeding if your fish are all ok and see if that helps. It is very easy to overfeed. Also if you added some macro algae that might help too. Snails are a good idea too, I think you should have about 10% as many crabs as you do snails. I used to go 50/50, but the snails do a better job, and they don't attack the crabs. Nasarius are fun and do a great job, they will at least knock that stuff around and then the filter might clear it up for you. I really think adding my refugium turned the corner for my 55 gal. tank.

[TaubBaer]

Spoon25, I don't know what kind of salt was in the ro salt water tank at Carter's store.

[TaubBaer]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6761521#post6761521 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rulesmith
I would look at flow and feeding. Cut back your feeding if your fish are all ok and see if that helps. It is very easy to overfeed. Also if you added some macro algae that might help too. Snails are a good idea too, I think you should have about 10% as many crabs as you do snails. I used to go 50/50, but the snails do a better job, and they don't attack the crabs. Nasarius are fun and do a great job, they will at least knock that stuff around and then the filter might clear it up for you. I really think adding my refugium turned the corner for my 55 gal. tank.
What's macro algae?
How many hermit per gallon?
How many snail per gallon?

[spoon25]

ok, macro algae is good algae i have a site on it ill show the different kinds...u need to grow it in a seperate tank with a light on it 24 hrs a day...what it does is is eats all the nutrients out of the water so u wont get that nusuiance algae grown in your show tank, after like 10 days you notice big differences in the tank with this stuff..i have a ton of the stuff if you ever wanna set up a small tank...in my big tank all i had was that red slime stuffwithin a month i can see it all died and now is dark green and fallin of the rocks...u need to fibnd the brand salt you use, and get back to me...and as far as snails go i wouldnt worry about that right now while your tank is still cycling...my tank has been cycling for about 12 weeks now...thats because i kept adding things to it...180lbs of live rock-50 lbs of live sand-another 50 lbs refugium snails, and another 20 lbs crushed corals...now its takin me a while considering my tank is only a 75 gallon...u can see my tank in my pic....its comin along....and as far as turky basters and stuff...dont worry about it, let it naturally fall off...it will get worse then finally it will start gettin better...sounds to me you have too many nutrients in the water...your feeding the mmicro algea...macro algae feeds on the micro algea basically

[TaubBaer]

I have 20 gallons, how big do I need for refugium?

[Bdimas]

Its Cyano. Try increasing your water flow and manually removing it with a turkey baster. I would probably add another power head. Maybe a better skimmer also. But atleast get more water flow going, cyano dosent like strong current.

[spoon25]

http://www.com.univ-mrs.fr/IRD/atollpol/ecorecat/ukalgesp.htm
algae

[spoon25]

an extra 20 gallon on that 20 gal would be perfectall you need is water flow from your big tank to the little tank, if you can drill holes its makes it so much easier but if not use an overflow box, i have 2 of them sittin around also if you need

[Bdimas]

Cyanobacteria is a bacteria not an algae. I beat it last year by adding more flow and opening up my rock work. Your rock work looks fine though. BTW your tank looks good besides the cyano.

[mothra]

TaubBaer,

Nice tank... bad cyanobacteria outbreak. It's not uncommon in new tanks, and the main causes are high nutrients and low flow (as stated above by a few folks). The solutions are to decrease nutrients and increase flow (also stated above).

If you have a place to add macro algae that can help with nutrient problems, but if it is too much trouble for you to setup a refugium to grow macro in, you can look at feeding less often (how often do you feed?) and/or skimming more. The latter may require you to tweak your skimmer or get a more powerful skimmer.

There is no evidence that any brand of salt causes algae problems. For every person who says brand "X" causes a problem there is someone else using the same brand and not having any problems. HOWEVER I don't know if I trust the fish store's water source, as you have heard it is usually best to mix your own salt water. I believe we have a member or two who use bottled drinking water rather than buying a filter, I don't know if it necessarily saves money in the long run but it is much better than using tap water.

[Bdimas]

I also agree that it's not the salt causing the problem. Also i buy water from a place on march lane for $1 for 5 gallons then mix my salt at home. Usually i get 20 gallons every couple of weeks. With that being said im going to get a ro/di unit because im tired of going out to get water and im going to convert my 135 into a planted seahorse/ pipefish tank.

[spoon25]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1
Salt by shimek

[mothra]

Spoon,

First of all, that article is not by Ron Shimek. He did a salt study some years ago that mainly focused on one salt and many hobbyists now consider it obsolete - which was the point of the article you posted.

Secondly, the article above is nothing more than a comparison of levels of various heavy metals present in today's commercial salt mixes. It has nothing to do with PO4 or NO3 levels, and Iron was not tested for - so none of the primary elements needed to fuel algae growth was even made mention of.

On top of other respected names in the hobby (such as Borneman) have already expressed concerns with the methods of testing used in the article and have indicated that other studies are in progress. AND a bunch of numbers does still not constitute a relationship between a known problem and a brand of salt, as I said above for everyone who blames an issue they are having on their salt there is someone who is using the same salt very happily. You can read through any of the many salt debates here on RC and you'll see what I mean :)

IMO, too often are people led down the road of switching salts like a magic bullet fix-all, when in fact the results can be a detrimental shock to the system. One incident from last year is still fresh in my mind where a reefer in our club was convinced to switch salts - and did. It resulted in stressing out a tank that couldn't handle it because of the real problem, which was faulty heaters/thermometers. The chemistry switch caused further loss of life and by the time we really knew what the problem was most of his coral (and some fish) were gone.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing, but please be cautious when giving such advice.

[TaubBaer]

I'm back with news.... :wavehand:

I took the water sample to Pet Discount on Hammer Lane and the person told me that the nitrite was .07 which should be 0.0, so I got the cycle "beneficial bacteria" to reduce the nitrite. Also, I got the chemi-clean to remove the cyano from tank. The other levels in the sample turned out fine. Only nitrite was too high.

The reason was that I used the tap water to reduce the salinity. :rolleyes: I don't have RO water after I scooped out about 1 or so gallon out of tank and put in tap water. I had made BIG mistake adding the salt water to the tank each time the water level got low. :eek2: NOW I have a 5 gallon jug of RO water. I know I'm dumbhead hobbist! :lmao: At least, I did not kill anything in the tank YET! :fish1:

[spoon25]

hey killin hings is how we learn...too bad we dont know everything before we buy saltwater tanks...that cycle you used helps bring down the nitrate not nitrite i belelive...it should help by adding more bacteria to your system, but you have to remove all filters and skimmers for 2 days if you use that stuff...

[mothra]

hey killin hings is how we learn...too bad we dont know everything before we buy saltwater tanks.

Well, that is the point of clubs such as NVR, and sites like Reef Central. We aim to better educate hobbyists so they DON'T kill any animals. None of us will ever know it all, but a little eduction goes a long way in this hobby.

[Reefugee]

The cycling process goes from ammonia -> nitrite -> nitrate. Without knowing exactly what "cycle beneficial bacteria" he got, but my guess is it is bacterial to help the cycling process (ending up in Nitrate). IMO - I think he would have just as well off waiting for bacteria population to develop on its own. Nitrate is removed with regular water changes. Macro algae will help some, but you will still need to do water changes. If you don't have a skimmer or refugium, I would do 10-20% water changes per week. Even on my 120 which has a sump, refugium, and nice skimmer - I still do about 15% water change a week (with an occassional week skipped due to laziness).

I haven't used chemclean, so I can't comment too much. However, it is only a temporary fix. But it will come back if you don't fix the source of the problem. As mentioned numerous times - decrease feeding and increase flow may solve your problem. BTW - you will also want to check your source water for phosphate as well.

BTW - ditto with with what Jacob (Mothra) said about the salt.

----------------

Spoon - WOW! I can't say I agree with that comment at all. Sure - we will all accidently kill things here and there, but to go into this hobby (or to keep an pets) with that type of attitude is just plain scary. I guess I will learn how to drive by driving over a cliff... :lol:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6783270#post6783270 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by spoon25
hey killin hings is how we learn...

[plankton]

TaubBaer - Looks like your tank is still adjusting to your bioload if you are still measuring Nitrite. As mentioned before, you can help your tank out by:

- increasing water flow
- decrease or simply stop feeding your tank for a week
- syphon out the cyano and increase water changes to 50% twice weekly. [hint use aged saltwater that is the same salinity and temperature as your main tank to reduce shock to your tank mates]
- chemiclean will certainly kill off your cyano but be prepared to syphon out all the dead cyano or you _will_ have an algae bloom problem. But, you don't really need to do this unless the cyano is starting to smother your corals (which it will do if it keeps growing)
- Cyano will eventually go away by all by itself but it might take several months to happen.

Welcome to the area.

Scott