homemade salt

[LFS_worker]

When I was at one of the public aquaria I got talking to a chmist there who told me that they make their own salt.
Is this possible to do for the regular person ? Im kind of a control freak and dont really like some of the results ive seen on salt mixes.
thanks in advance
Brian

also if this is possible to do on a smaller scale I would like to know where to get the ingredients :) :) :)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I describe a recipe in this article, but it is not a simple DIY:

What is seawater
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

An Artificial Seawater Recipe



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For those who are interested, the following artificial seawater recipe is taken from "Chemical Oceanography" by Frank Millero. It makes a recipe that matches 35 ppt seawater in terms of major ions, but does not try to match all minor and trace elements, most of which will be present as impurities in the major elements.

23.98 g sodium chloride
5.029 g magnesium chloride
4.01 g sodium sulfate
1.14 g calcium chloride
0.699 g potassium chloride
0.172 g sodium bicarbonate
0.100 g potassium bromide
0.0254 g boric acid
0.0143 g strontium chloride
0.0029 g sodium fluoride
Water to 1 kg total weight.

[LFS_worker]

Is there a site where I can learn basic Chemistry ?? just simple and plain Chemistry so that I can grasp even more of this. Or maybe a book from barnes and nobles?

School is out of the question as I just had a baby. :( and :)
Thanks
Brian

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Congratulations on your baby!

I do not know of any good web sites that teach basic chemistry.

There are many basic chemistry textbooks that one can get at major bookstores, but I've not shopped for them in many years so do not have any specific recommendations.

Anyone have any specific suggestions?

[baruchbl]

Do the home made salt is better then the comerchial salt?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would not expect it to be better than commercial mixes, no.

[rayjay]

I began making my own water for my brine shrimp operation back some time ago, using sodium chloride (evap. water softener salt), calcium chloride, and magnesium sulphate (epsom salts) because it was cheap. Randy advised me on a better proportioning of the salts and I've been making it that way ever since.
In addition to the brine shrimp I have been using it mixed equal parts I.O. and the homemade water, for all my fish only tanks.
Now, I'm considering using the magnesium chloride Randy has been mentioning to replace some of the magnesium sulphate I'm presently using. (it's even a touch cheaper than the magnesium sulphate)
Any advice on how much of the epsom to replace with the Mag Chloride?

[baruchbl]

Do the coral need more than in the recipe above?
If the unswer in not than why the home made recipe is not good as the commercial salt?
(I wiil try yo buy pure Sodium chloride).

[rayjay]

I wouldn't take a chance with my corals and inverts as I have too large an investment in them and am not willing to risk it.
The fish only ones, I started with one tank and when it worked out ok then I started the 50/50 on the others as well.

[LFS_worker]

Rayjay / Randy / Bertoni - where do you locate the ingredients ?
how are you measuring them I have a gram scale but its 1gm resolution. kind-of a problem considering the recipe.

Thanks Guys!
Brian

[rayjay]

First I multiply the formula by 100 and convert to pounds and ounces to the nearest ounce.
Then I use an old balance that I've aquired.
I have a "food" scale also, which is in pounds as well as grams, but for the quantities I use, it's too small of a scale as each batch of salt water I make up starts off with 6 pounds of sodium chloride and the other salts in proportional quantities.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've never actually made such a recipe. The reason it isn't a simple DIY is that you need access to the chemicals, and they are not all readily available unless you are a business. The recipe makes 1 L, but you can mAke up 100 L by using 100 times as much, and that is easier to weigh out. :)

Now, I'm considering using the magnesium chloride Randy has been mentioning to replace some of the magnesium sulphate I'm presently using. (it's even a touch cheaper than the magnesium sulphate)
Any advice on how much of the epsom to replace with the Mag Chloride?

What exactly are you using now?

[rayjay]

Up to now, I mix up 6 lbs of sodium chloride (evap. water softener salt), 1 lb 10 oz of magnesium sulphate, and 4 oz of calcium chloride. I add water to bring the s.g. to 1.025.
I thought maybe if the magnesium chloride improved your formula then that may improve my mix as well.
HOWEVER, since my last post, I looked at the recipe you posted above and thought I would like to go with the top 4 chems listed and make my mix like this: 5 lb 4.4 oz of sodium chloride, 1 lb 1.7 oz of magnesium chloride, 14.1 oz of sodium sulphate, and 4 oz of calcium chloride.
With this mix, I would then be wondering if it would be an improvement to replace some of the 1 lb 1.7 oz of magnesium chloride with some magnesium sulphate.
I would be using this water as 100% of the water for my brine shrimp operation as well as my mysid growing, but would mix it 50/50 with Instant Ocean for use in my fish only tanks as I presently have been doing with my original mix. I use about 95 g of home made mix each week so it has been a big savings over using all I.O. over the last few years.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

if you can get the top 4 ingredients, that is a pretty good mix, and I'd forgo the Epsom salts altogether. Note that the recipe above is for anhydrous salts, so if you have hydrates (like Dowflake or mag chloride hexahydrate, you need more of those).

[rayjay]

I have all four but the calcium chloride is 77-80 so I'll change the amount to 5.1 oz.
The magnesium chloride is hexahydrate so I'll change that amount to 2 lbs 5.7 oz.
The other two are anhydrous.
I'll skip using the epsom.
I really appreciate the help as I could never pass chemistry way way back when.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds good.

You're welcome and let us know how it works out. :)

[rayjay]

I tried to edit my first post about the 4 part formula, but couldn't so just to clarify what I am using, all in one post:
5 lbs 4.4 oz of sodium chloride (Crystal Plus water softener salt)
2 lbs 5.7 oz magnesium chloride hexahydrate
14 oz sodium sulphate anhydrous
5.1 oz calcium chloride 77-80
These were based on the ratios in the original formula you posted, with the changes made to accommodate using the hexahydrate and 77-80.

[rayjay]

OK, I mixed up a batch and diluted to 1.025 it makes about 30 US gallons.
After mixing for over 18 hours with an 802 power head and with heavy aeration, the pH is 7.8 and alkalinity is 5 dkh
Calcium as tested with Seachem test kit, 445

Is the baked baking soda the best way to get the alk and pH up?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In this situation, yes that sounds good, but more aeration may take the pH back down again. :)

[dleggett]

What is a good source for sodium sulphate used in the artificial seawater recipe?

[rayjay]

I buy mine from Univar.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

[B]What is a good source for sodium sulphate used in the artificial seawater recipe?[?B]

The lack of simple availability for most people is why I haven't made DIY recipes with it.

[dleggett]

What is the minimum quantity that Univar distributors typically handle?

If sodium sulfate is not used, what is the recommended alternative? Magnesium Sulfate? (and then adjust the amount of magnesium chloride?)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If sodium sulfate is not used, what is the recommended alternative? Magnesium Sulfate? (and then adjust the amount of magnesium chloride?)

For a salt mix, you can do that, yes. :)

[rayjay]

I think that depends on the individual Univar Outlet, as I've seen posts about buying Calcium Chloride 77-80 where the hobbyist was told "pallet loads only"
However, I routinely buy individual bags of 20K and 25K (depending on which chemical) from the London Ontario outlet and have been for quite a few years now.
The sodium sulphate I buy costs $14.00 CDN plus taxes of 15%.
If you're in the US where I.O. and other salts are relatively cheap, you won't have a big savings I wouldn't think, but for here in Canada where I am, a pail of I.O. costs $59.99 plus tax for a total of $68.99 and only produces about 140g US mixed to 1.025, for a unit cost of just over 49 cents a US gallon.
My home made mix I just made, works out to just under 9 cents a US gallon mixed to 1.025.
Please remember though, I'm not using this mix in a reef as it is not a complete salt mix, but I use it 50/50 with I.O. in my fish only tanks.
It's great for my brine shrimp and mysid growing operations. (the brine shrimp operation is large, not just for an individual hobbyist)

[rayjay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6610119#post6610119 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
In this situation, yes that sounds good, but more aeration may take the pH back down again. :)
Again you were right.
The water basically goes back to the same readings within about 18 hours.
As I need aeration for the brine shrimp grow operation, and, with my fish only tanks I use the mix in, I have very large airstone skimmers, I guess I need to find another solution.
Is it possible that one or more of the chemicals I haven't used from that formula you posted, would keep the pH and alkalinity in line?
Thanks again.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Higher alkalinity contributes to more pH stability. Most of the others play a pretty minor role in pH.