Plankton who-eats-who question(s)....

[kcolagio]

Dr. Ron,

Here's a question that I've searched the web for and just can't seem to come up some answers on....I'm hoping you can help.

I plan on starting a plankton farm (basic feeder stuff) and want to go with a few phytoplanktons (Nanochloropus, either Chaetoceros or Tetraselmis, and diatoms). For zooplankton, I'm planning on non-parasitic copepods, amphipods, artemia and maybe a few other things (any suggestions?).

What I'm having a difficult time finding is what exactly the different zooplankton eat. Do they hunt other zooplankton, will they be happy with the phytoplankton, do they need a combination, etc...

Do you have any place you could send me that would explain all these in a simple form (I'm not a marine biologist) or with a drawing? Lacking that, could you let me know who eats what so I can feed these guys the right stuff at the right time?

Thanks for you help!

[MattBeaman]

Kevin

Dr Ron will of course be able to give you a much better reply than I can but FWIW as a fellow hobbyist the following might help;

Chaetoceros is actually a diatom - it has a silicate exoskeleton.
Tetraselmis is a flagellate, which means it 'swims' unlike Nannochloropsis, which cannot swim.

I would recommend all three of these for culturing, but start with Nanno. its the easiest. You might also consider Isochrysis. The main reason for culturing several species is that they all have slightly different nutritional content (EFA's) and are different sizes, therefore being accepted by different creatures. I know Ron doesn't see the benefit of Chaetoceros, but i'm not convinced either way yet.

As regards what eats this, well other than the filter feeders - sponges, tube worms etc, the zooplankton such as Rotifers, are commonly fed on this phyto. The rotifers are then fed to your tank to feed other creatures, such as many corals, and moving up the chain, they are a favourite food of the amphipods (little shrimp like creatures you can see running round) and so it goes on up the chain.

I run a refugium with DSB, totally separate from my main system, and with no skimmer or mechanical pumps (which will damage the zooplankton) just air pumps running stones for circulation. It has been fantastic to see the explosion in life in that tank!

:D

I have hundreds of bristleworms, amphipods running everywhere, squirts and tunicates, spaghetti worms, snails breeding by the hundred. It's amazing. I am planning to use it to seed my new refugium for my main system, but plan to keep it running permanently to use as a top-up system for my main tank to keep stocks high. (as there are a lot of predators in my tank which eat baby snails,amphipods etc.)

If you have a spare tank, try it. All it needs is a heater and an air pump. Then feed the tank with live phyto and rotifers that you culture and some shrimp etc. for the worms.

Hope this helps

[kcolagio]

Matt,

Thanks for the info. How big is your culturing setup?

I had actually planned on (what I consider) a large scale...5 or 10 gallon tanks. I have some friends who could also use some food stuffs for their tanks. :)

I guess what I'm not sure of is things like, "do rotifers eat Nanochloropus, Tetraselmis, or what?" so that I can make sure that I have the right producer-consumer combination.

I'd hate to make 10 gallons of Nanochloropus just to have it not be the food required by consumer of choice... :eek1:

I planned on keeping the strains pure (as pure as I can anyway....) until feeding time, but should I just mix them together? With the consumers, I'm afraid of uncontrolled predation.

Where did you get your starting cultures? I'm planning on going with Florida Aqua Farms. Is that a good/bad/or OK decision?

Thanks for the help.

[rshimek]

Originally posted by kcolagio

Hi Kevin,

I plan on starting a plankton farm ....maybe a few other things (any suggestions?).

Start easy and then work up. This is not an easy task.

What I'm having a difficult time finding is what exactly the different zooplankton eat. Do they hunt other zooplankton, will they be happy with the phytoplankton, do they need a combination, etc...

This is actually not an easy answer to get a handle on. Most of the zooplankters don't have specific diets, but rather eat general categories of food.

Here is an article on feeding on phytoplankton (http://www.dtplankton.com/new_page_3.htm) by suspension feeders. With the exception of animals such as crinoids, few phytoplankton-eating animals eat specific algae, but rather a variety of things.

Do you have any place you could send me that would explain all these in a simple form (I'm not a marine biologist) or with a drawing?

No, I don't, not in so many words.... Here is a place to start with some of the basics of suspension feeding (http://www.dtplankton.com/new_page_2.htm). Predation by zooplankton on various algae and other, smaller zooplankton, is very hard to get a handle on, so there are few applicable data on it.

Sorry, to be so imprecise, but that is the nature of this beast. :D

[MattBeaman]

Kevin

Glad to help.

Florida Aqua Farms stuff is great. That's actually what I use over here. I recommend the algal plates rather than liquid cultures. You can buy a couple and keep one in the cupboard for upto 6months in case you crash a culture. You should really be restarting about every 4-6months anyway because of conatmination form airborne diatoms etc. Try Walnes recipe for the nutrient solution, I prefer it to F2 which a lot of people use. If you can get a single part solution with the heavy metals full chelated, then even better. (much safer for the tank IMO)

Rotifers aren't fussy if its green they'll eat it!!:D Breeders need to worry about what they feed them, because that will effect their EFA content. That's why many will raise them on Nanno. then feed them Tetra, just before feeding the rotifers to the fish fry. For reefers, just cycle, sometimes feed Nanno, sometimes Tetra if you want.


The problem with culturing phyto that size is a suitable vessel, even lighting etc. I use two 2.5litre reactors, which with increased nutrients at 3:1 and Co2 injection can have the culture maxed out in 24hours. I restart with 500ml of each and so I can have 4litres/day of very dense phyto. Even on a 200 gallon system that's enough for me.

Rotifers I run in two 5gallon reactors.

My standalone refugium/breeder is 26gallon minus 4" DSB.

[kcolagio]

Ron and Matt, thanks for the info...

What I planned (this plan is constantly changing...) was something along the lines of...

One container for each of 2 or 3 algae strains. These would be either 2 liter soda bottles or (my original plan) like a 5 gallon tank (it sounds like something airtight would be better though).

About a week after the algae cultures are going, I thought I would start the rotifers and artemia. These would have a slow feed from each of the phyto containers.

As the level goes up in the rotifer and artemia containers, I'd have those start feeding into a tank where I could would have various pods (mostly copepods and amphipods). The theory being that the rotifers/artemia would feed the copepods and the excess of everything would be handled by the amphipods.

For lighting, I have (now) a standard 4' long shop light with 2x 40 watt NO bulbs. I am thinking that a 65 watt PC with 6500K lighting would be better. I can get this in a enclosure that I can then target one end of my shelving unit, leaving the rotifer and pods in the darker end.

What type of CO2 injection process are you using? I hadn't thought of that at all.....

Matt, you mention Walnes recipe...can you tell me where I can find that? I know it probably won't work, but what about something as simple as a "over the coutner" fertilizer (MiracleGro or something similar)? What other nutrients/elements would be needed? Is this covered in the book from FAF?

I'm also trying to come up with a bottom drain (on the reaction containers) so that anything that collects in the bottom (would there be anything?) can be drained easily.

Thanks again for the info!

[MattBeaman]

Kevin

Just my honest reaction, so take it in the helpful spirit it is intended,

Start with the pop bottles (though ideally two of each strain in case one crashes).

Forget the auto feeding system - too many complications at this point; examples;

1- Phyto will never reach growth plateau, so there will be unused nutrients(nitrates,phoshates etc.) which you are then transferring into the second tank.
2-pH shock constantly effecting rotifers (grow best at different pH to Phyto.
3- Risk of cross contamination
4- Rotifer water will contain ammonia and nitrite so this then is poured into other tank in turn.

Use a proper nutrient solution. I am sure FAF sell them, though I think its based on F2 recipe. Still fine though. Miracle grow etc. will work, but not designed at optimum levels for saltwater phyto. Therefore more crashes etc.

Keep rotifers totally away from Phyto, ideally not even in the same room. 1 cyst goes 'airborne' and good bye phyto cultures!:D

Light - more the better, but the 40w would be fine. (I only use 18w on each reactor)

Co2 will make a huge difference. Without it a culture will take 7 days to reach density. With it the culture will reach a greater density in just 24hours!! (need to increase nutrient dose though)

Yes there will be some residue, but you should always transfer to a clean bottle each time you start a reculture, then leave the old to soak, so not a problem. If you are going to use CO2 its worth buying the proper reactors, cos trying to connect to pop bottles is a bit awkward.

Cheers
:)

PS - Keep it simple mate (at least at first) Get some cultures and run some pop bottles and take it from there. Despite what many will have you believe, phyto is a doddle, if you follow a few very simple rules. (always work up the food chain being one of them!!)
So give it a go. I often think the only people to try and complicate it are those who sell it, but perhaps i'm just cynical:rolleyes:

[kcolagio]

I actually built (a few months ago) a PVC rack for holding 2 liter soda bottles. It mostly will just hold them upright while you work on any of the bottles, and it will hold 10 bottles. So I'm planning on using that.

For the auto feeding, I can skip that, but what I planned was an air hose from one bottle to the next...each one dripping into the other (no hose->liquid contact going up the food chain). When a drip (of fertilized SW) goes in, a drip (of algae full SW) comes out and into next link (rotifers) where the overflow would then go into a small tank with a DSB. But I can see your point on the pH issues and needing to "flush" the system on occasion.

FAF does have a fertilizer....I'll start with that and see how it goes. You mentioned another one earlier...what's that one?

Hmmm...I didn't realize that rotifer cysts could go air born....hmmm....

What do you use for the CO2 feed?

I actually had hoped to be able to make enough to share with friends in the area....we had about 20+ show up at a local meeting, and figured it would be nice to have something to trade...something non-typical. ;) Selling to the LFSs for their own use (and getting some equipment in return) would be a plus if I can get it going well...but that's a big IF. :)

Thanks for the information.

[MattBeaman]

If you're looking for that kind of production, and better densities, then you need CO2 without question. After enough to restart your cultures,two 2.5litre reactors will provide the equivalent of 12litres per day of 'non co2 pop-bottled phyto' and that's being conservative.

Compare this to the fact that with no CO2 it'll take 7days to get to its growth plateau, and the benefits become clear.

Method is simple enough, just CO2 bottle, needle valve, feeds through bubble counter, into airline (with air pump flow) to feed reactor. (make sure you've got a good non return valve.)

Set so that ideally its running a 7 -7.5pH. (varies slightly for each species) Increase nutrient solution upto 9x the normal dose, dependant upon co2 dosage and growth rate. Start at 3x and experiment from there. Without increased nutrients the CO2 will be wasted. (Common mistake)

The solution I use isn't available in USA i'm afraid, but F2 will do o.k.

If you're going to run with rotifers in the same room, its worth installling a .43 micron airfilter into the airline, but not essential.

[kcolagio]

Matt,

Thanks for all the extra info. I'll print it out, put it in a more compact form, and try and keep it as a reference...if any other questions come up, I'll either post them here or e-mail directly (if that's OK).

Thanks again!

p.s. If anyone has more to add, I'll be keeping my eyes open for it.

[MattBeaman]

Welcome mate.

I've got a series of three articles on this exact subject due to be published in a UK marine mag. so i'll mail you them if you like. (might be of some interest)

Cheers

[kcolagio]

That'd be great!

Just send them to the e-mail in the profile...I'll get them shortly thereafter.

Thanks again!