converting to 220v

[Kenfuzed]

Anyone currently running their pumps or lights on 220 rather than 110? If so, is there any significant advantage?

In the planning stages for a multi tank prop system. I was wondering if converting my uno pump and one of the 400w MH's to 220v would reduce my current draw or even make the pump run any different.

[gcarroll]

Moving up to 220v will reduce amprage draw. It will cut it in half. It will still end up costing you the same because you are billed in kilowatts. The electrical devices may be a little more efficient at the higher voltage but the difference would probably not be noticable.

[Kenfuzed]

Figured usage would be the same but I would sure like to do anything to reduce the load on my circuits without rewiring the house.

[NicoleC]

How do you think it will reduce the load on your circuits? It draws the same amount of power from your main breaker. If you are concerned about the power draw on the particular circuit you are on, you COULD on add a 220, but the draw on the main breaker would be the same. If that's the case, you could add a couple of 110's instead and not replace any of your equipment.

[JenDub]

Were you thinking about having them put a 220 line to the tank?

You should get a 220 line and a sub-panel just for the tank, then you'll be pimpin'. The extra expense involved with getting 220 pumps/ballast usually scares people off. If you do it, let us know how it goes

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6366429#post6366429 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gcarroll
Moving up to 220v will reduce amprage draw. It will cut it in half. It will still end up costing you the same because you are billed in kilowatts. The electrical devices may be a little more efficient at the higher voltage but the difference would probably not be noticable.

Sorry, this part I don't understand. I thought when we double the voltage, the current will be double as well. I notice that the circuit breaker uses for air conditioner is 30Amp at 220V. I could be wrong.

[Pepbill]

If I remember correctly: If switching to 220v the first question that needs to be asked about equipment is: single phase or dial phase. Europe in on single phase and US on dual phase. Basically what this means is a 220v line in the US is just 2 110v. You can get circuit breakers that will combine the two different phases.

[Kenfuzed]

My Uno pump and many magnetic ballasts have the option of switching to 220 very easily. The Uno and Sequence pumps only requires a wire change inside the panel.

I tried to search around and found that increasing the voltage decreases the amperage, but not quite by half.

In regards to usage, while it is true that the amount of electricity used will remain the same (as will the bill :( ), the overall amperage draw on a single circuit will decrease. I was trying to see if using a 220 converter would relieve amperage draw off the current line being used, and therefore allow for the addition of another light on that circuit. Right now that circuit is used for 2 ceiling lights in the kitchen and my Uno pump (1.6 amps). My idea involved converting the pump to 220 and using a converter. Then using the same line (w/o the converter) for a MH light over my prop tank.

Major alteration to the house electrical is limited for me since I'm a renter.

NicoleC, good point about the single/double phase. I'll have to investigate that. I think I need to find an electrician who has done this stuff before.

[gtrestoration]

Icecap 400w 220v MH ballast are said to run cooler than the 110 volt version.

There's a reason things like electric dryers, AC units and pool pumps run on 220v.

SteveU

[lastin1]

P=IE

Power = Current X Voltage

If you double the voltage, you would have to halve the current to equal the same power. Your suggestion of using a transformer to up the voltage wouldn't work, because it's the wire from the breaker box to the fish tank that is limited. You would have to put the converter at the breaker box, but that wouldn't make sense because just about every home is wired for both 120 and 240. The reason why things like electric dryers run on 240 is because it draws a tremendous amount of power. If it runs on 120 volts, the power wire would have to double in size. Even with 240 volts, the wires are rated for 20 amps or more. I believe it's 30 amps if I can remember correctly. If it runs on 120 volts, it would have to be capable of double that. Doesn't make sense to run 6 gauge wires.

[lastin1]

If you hook up the outlet to 240 volts, you can essentially double the power capability. It's probably against code though because if you plug any 120 volt device that is not capable of 240 volts into that outlet, you will fry it and probably start a fire. 240 volts outlet uses a different type of plug here.

[Kenfuzed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6367600#post6367600 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by lastin1
P=IE

Power = Current X Voltage

If you double the voltage, you would have to halve the current to equal the same power. Your suggestion of using a transformer to up the voltage wouldn't work, because it's the wire from the breaker box to the fish tank that is limited. You would have to put the converter at the breaker box, but that wouldn't make sense because just about every home is wired for both 120 and 240. The reason why things like electric dryers run on 240 is because it draws a tremendous amount of power. If it runs on 120 volts, the power wire would have to double in size. Even with 240 volts, the wires are rated for 20 amps or more. I believe it's 30 amps if I can remember correctly. If it runs on 120 volts, it would have to be capable of double that. Doesn't make sense to run 6 gauge wires. Here is some more detail into what I had in mind. My pump will easily convert to 220. I would then attach the pump to the converter (see link below) and still have the other outlet on this circuit for a MH light. It was just an idea to reduce any strain on this one circuit. The rest of my tank is already on another circuit.
http://www.110220volts.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TC-1000&Category_Code=Up-DownTransformer

[lastin1]

I replied to your other post regarding the converter/transformer.

[lastin1]

Don't worry too much about strain. That's what the fuse or circuit breaker is for. If it blows or trips, then you need another circuit.

[NicoleC]

A 220 circuit is 30 amps. At least mine is.

If the fuse box is inside the unit, running a new circuit will be pretty simple and cheap for a pro or decent handyman. The hardest part will be matching the landlord's paint

[Kenfuzed]

Okay, let me look at this another way before I run wire or change breakers.

Rather than use trial and error to see if a circuit can handle my proposed load, is there a way to accurately calculate how much load I can have on a 15 amp circuit? All of my breakers are 15a other than the window 220 window A/C. I want to have the pump(1.6 amp), 400w MH, 250w heater, and 50w worth of powerheads. I estimate load to be just over 7.5 amps not taking into account the starting amperage required by the MH ballast. I already have an estimated 12amps on the other circuit for my main tank. This is a very rough guess-timate using Watts divided by Voltage.

[F35-Joint Strike Fighter]

One more thing, always check for the peak current (or max current) which is when the electrical devices just turn on. Here what I know, the circuit breakers we are having now are Thermal Circuit Breaker which meams that at the certain point of holding electron flow, it will pop. Ideally, it can load max to 200% for appr. 10-15 seconds. so if you have 15Amp rating CB, it can load max to 200% or 30Amp about 10-15 seconds before it pop. Good luck!

[gtrestoration]

I'd be concerned with the 80% usage of the 15amp circuit. In the event of a power failure when power is restored everything will come back on at once and may trip the breaker. Of course if your 12amp number took that into account you'll be ok. :)

You might be able to change out the breaker to a 20amp version but the safety of that depends on your wire size and the outlets you use.

SteveU

[NicoleC]

I dunno... I wouldn't swap the breaker. Usually if there is a 15amp breaker, the wiring is #14 gauge. You need #12 gauge for a 20 amp circuit, and it's BAD news if you don't have it and try to pull that much power. Newer homes usually have 12 gauge, but my 1960's place doesn't (except for the kitchen, which was rewired for appliance circuits.)

If you have aluminum wiring (usually for places/circuits wired/added/extended in the late 60's and early 70's), aluminum wire must be one gauge larger than copper. So, for a 15amp circuit with aluminum wire, you need #12 gauge. #12 gauge aluminum cannot handle a 20 amp circuit, you need #10 aluminum for that.

It's not even safe to pull the wires and check, because the wiring may not be the same all the way along the circuit if someone added an outlet or ceiling fan or something after the fact. So upgrading a circuit breaker is like playing russian roulette.

To answer your other question, Ken, I think you have a handle on the math (Amps * Volts = Watts) But:
A 15 amp circuit can handle 1800 watts, but you only want to run at a max of 80%, which is 1440 watts
15 x 120 x 80%= 1440

[gtrestoration]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6370326#post6370326 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gtrestoration

You might be able to change out the breaker to a 20amp version but the safety of that depends on your wire size and the outlets you use.

SteveU

I'm not suggesting that someone look down the barrel to see if it's loaded. ;)

SteveU

[NicoleC]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6370650#post6370650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gtrestoration
I'm not suggesting that someone look down the barrel to see if it's loaded. ;)

SteveU

LOL!

[Kenfuzed]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6370603#post6370603 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by NicoleC
I dunno... I wouldn't swap the breaker. Usually if there is a 15amp breaker, the wiring is #14 gauge. You need #12 gauge for a 20 amp circuit, and it's BAD news if you don't have it and try to pull that much power. Newer homes usually have 12 gauge, but my 1960's place doesn't (except for the kitchen, which was rewired for appliance circuits.)

If you have aluminum wiring (usually for places/circuits wired/added/extended in the late 60's and early 70's), aluminum wire must be one gauge larger than copper. So, for a 15amp circuit with aluminum wire, you need #12 gauge. #12 gauge aluminum cannot handle a 20 amp circuit, you need #10 aluminum for that.

It's not even safe to pull the wires and check, because the wiring may not be the same all the way along the circuit if someone added an outlet or ceiling fan or something after the fact. So upgrading a circuit breaker is like playing russian roulette.

To answer your other question, Ken, I think you have a handle on the math (Amps * Volts = Watts) But:
A 15 amp circuit can handle 1800 watts, but you only want to run at a max of 80%, which is 1440 watts
15 x 120 x 80%= 1440 I've crawled around in the attic and it appears all the wiring is copper 12 gauge with some 14ga used for the ceiling fixtures. The house was built in the late 50's with a remodel in the 80's, so there doesn't appear to be any aluminum wire.

I think I'm pushing one of my circuits which currently has a load of approx 1480-1500 watts. Up until a week ago it was more (1660) since I had my Uno pump on that same circuit as well. I drilled a small hole through the wall into the garage (shhh, don't tell my girlfriend or landlord) and attached to that circuit to isolate the pump. This relieved 180 watts and now I'm thinking of shifting one more item to that circuit just to balance things, but I still have the other items to add with the upcoming prop tank. This shouldn't be any more than 450 watts, or 630 total with the current uno pump.

To think that before I upgraded pumps I was running 1780 watts off of a single circuit. It's a wonder how the whole thing ran without incident for 3 years like that, yikes! :eek2: The breaker would only trip if I plugged in our vacuum cleaner along the same wall.

I feel like I'm talking to myself on this, but at least if I burn down my house it was well documented. :p