Lighting Questions

[ReefRacer]

I have 2 EVC 10000K DE 250 watt on my 90. I was researching Sanjay's work and found these bulbs are the most par like 179 unshielded and most full spectrum of any I saw, especially with the PFO HQI ballast I use which is the recommended ballast for DE bulbs. (I had 2 electronic evc ballasts which tripped GFI breakers constantly they use less energy with less par) I also found that the spectrum of these bulbs is less than 10000K but more like 5000K or 6000K. The questions I have are how high should I hang these off the water, they are in pendants with a glass UV shield. The other question is in order to see better colors should I switch to 14000K and lose par or add some actinic bulbs of some sort. Also how long should I leave them on for? Mike

[gflat65]

Lighting is a tricky subject. I like using 10K's and VHO supplementation (can get a VHO setup from hellolights for ~$100 w/o reflector) to get the color I want. I'm running 250W 10K AB's, which have very good par also. They really yellow out a tank and the VHO's are not really enough to balance. I'm running one 14K (phoenix) to see if that was too much blue. It kinda is. I have a tort that pulses blue, but it is the main benefited coral. I've got a nice sized cerealis colony that lost it's purpl tips under the 14K. All of the corals under the 10K AB's develop really nice color (not the flourescent type, though it does flouresce more under just VHO's). I think I will be switching back. I don't really like the look of the 14K by itself as much, so I'll suffer through it until they come out with a better par bulb in the 12K range. There is the Helios 12.5K, but I have not been able to get anyone to comment on it.

Mine are mounted about 5-6" off the surface of the water. If you are beginning the transistion to much more par, be sure to reduce photperiods and screen. I upgraded from 175W SE's to 250W DE, ran the photoperiod for 5 hours (new set up photoperiod, anyway) and slowly increased the photoperiod weekly by one hour. I am almost to full photoperiod now (got the set up back in August/September). I still bleached a few things. Lps didn;t like the change too much, but an A hyacinthus has bleached also, so higher light corals were affected even with the photoperiod adjustments.

Sorry for the novella. HTH.

[ReefRacer]

Gflat65,
Thanks for the reply. I am leaning toward VHO supplemental lighting with pure actinic bulbs. Some stuff looks better with some blue like GSP for example, and ricordia. I also have a scripps green that glows under a blacklight but will probably glow under actinic also. You really lose par when you switch to 14000k, under the lighting equipment forum there are a bunch of bulb comparison studies by Sanjay. I have a Nasuta colony that is turning blue since I got it under 10000k. If you or anyone reading this post has any DE halide bulbs that are not being used I would really like to try a 14000k in my setup just to see what my stuff look like. I will be due to change the EVC 10000k bulbs in a few months (how long should I keep em anyway)so I would be willing to let anyone try them to see how they look in their tank. Gflat it seems that your halides are pretty close to the water. My bulbs are 10" and the glass shield is 8" but i thought about lowering them an inch or two. I guess the main thing is heat, and can you work on your tank with the bulbs low. Mike

[RCS]

Bulb spectrum/strenght and placement height is kind of a loaded question. It really depends on the corals in the tank. What do you all have in the tank? And where is it placed?

[gflat65]

I don't have too many problems working in the tank. Pulling rock, etc. might be more difficult, but it can be done. There is enough room to get my arms in and reach just about any part of the tank with only a few 1st degree burns;). I'm running a chiller and fans, so I've been able to keep the heat down. Next summer will be the test.

I had decided to give up par for color, but don't really like the color as much as I thought I would. The Phoenix isn't much lower on par than the AB's, so I decided to give it a shot. I think I'm going back to AB's. When I get a replacement 10K AB, you can borrow the 14K Phoenix to see what you think.

[gflat65]

RCS-I've got a mixed reef with sps on the upper 1/4, primarily, lps along the middle section (extending above and below middle section) and zoas and softies mixed in the lower half. I've had to move some corals around to match their needs, but for the most part everyone is happy.

[ReefRacer]

I've got nothing closer than 8" to the top of the water and its sps. Some zoos and xenia halfway down gsp scattered the leather on the bottom has done poorly since i got it. My RBTA is on the bottom and hasn't moved. The only thing that grows good in my tank is SPS. Some mushrooms split but seem to hide from the lights. I think I need to use actinic and turn off the halides except for like 4 hours a day. Mike

[ReefRacer]

Oh I forgot- the Xenia is growing good. Mike

[RCS]

If your SPS are growing well, then I wouldn't mess with the lights too much. If you try to cut down too much, you may pick up some growth and color in the mushrooms, LPS, etc. but will likely lose some color in your SPS and their growth will slow as well.

I run with 10K bulbs and actinic supplements (3x 150w HQI over a 155) and have slow but steady SPS growth, while some of the other corals grow much quicker. I keep my SPS all in the top half to third of the tank (normally start lower and move them up). So far they've all held their color.

If you want growth and color, I would keep your lights where they are (a higher Kelvin bulb may help them keep their colors, or enhance them even, but I'm betting your growth will be cut back).

As to how high they should be off the tank...impossible to answer really, without knowing the history of each coral (collection points, depth, color, etc.) and what you'd like out of each of them. Even then, determining the height is guesswork at best. I would say high enough to not get splashed and to not transfer too much heat to the water, but low enough to get good output. If your corals are happy, I wouldn't mess with a good thing too much.

You may be able to get around some of this with strategic rockwork as well. If your lower light corals don't have the growth you'd like, placing them under overhangs or otherwise sheltered areas may increase their growth/happiness.

It's odd that you'd see good SPS growth and good Xenia growth at the same time, as Xenia mostly tend to grow better in higher nutrient water while SPS prefer lower nutrient water and more light. I get decent growth from my SPS and my Xenia, not poor or great with either though. Some Xenia species have been known to grow well in high light situations with low nutrients; I'm guessing this is what's happening in your setup.

From the sounds of it, your softie growth is likely going to be limited by the nutrients in the water. I get pretty good growth from my leathers and zoanthids even higher up in my tank. My lights are about 6" off the surface, and I have zoanthids as close as 8" to the top...

[RCS]

I should explain my setup a little as well, so you can understand where some of this is coming from.

It's a 155g bowfront tank with around 200 lbs of live rock, and houses (it's definitely overstocked, invert-wise) a dozen or so SPS colonies/frags, 10 clams (6 maximas, 3 derasa and a crocea), a 7-8" square area of Xenia elongata, multiple zoanthids colonies and frags (colonies there are probably 12-15, frags I'd guess around 35-40), three Acanthastrea lordhowensis colonies, a rainbow Acanthastrea echinata colony, two Dendrophyllia polyps, three Blastomussa wellsi colonies, seven different Gonipora colonies, 15 Tonga Rhodactis, a bunch of large neon green Rhodactis, 20 or so Florida ricordea, multiple other frags I can't even remember...and that's just the stationary inverts. There's also about a thousand cerith snails, a half-dozen turbo snails, a dozen or so nerite snails, a couple dozen nassarius snails, the usually brittle stars, 'pods, etc., two long-tentacle anemones, four skunk cleaner shrimp, a pair of peppermint shrimp...you get the idea.

It also has a LOT of macroalgae (which I pretty much let grow wild and harvest every once in a while...and which keeps the tang fat) and a refugium with more macro and some chaeto in there as well. Skimmer isn't currently running and I don't run any mechanical or chemical filtration. Filtration consists of a sand bed, the live rock and the macro. Nitrates are zero, phosphates are undetecable and all other parameters are in line (the macro likely accounts for the good nitrate/phosphate readings, as I feed heavily, both the fish and the corals). I also don't do water changes.

Fish are a pair of maroon clowns, a yellow tang, a dusky jawfish, a female Lamarck angel, a trio of Banggai cardinals, a half-dsozen green-banded gobies, a male mandarin (S. splendidus)...I think that's it.

The point of that novel is just so you can see where my other recommendations and thoughs are coming from and what they're based on. Different setups work for different people.

[imsqueak]

Fred, you are something... I don't know how you do it... Mel did it too and had a nice tank that way. You should have a disclaimer in your sig. line though. "don't try this at home unless you have a keen eye and good knowledge about your tank's inhabitants".

Reefracer, even though Fred doesn't fret about his tank like most of us do, his advice is right on about your lighting. I also run pendants but haven't found a good way to supplement actinics. I'd been running 240 Ham 14ks but I've recently went to 400 CV reeflux 10k. I honestly like it much more but I have an advantage most don't; the back of my tank is painted blue, as well as the wall that the tank sits on. My windows still glow blue at night and to look at the tank it's a fairly bright white yet I think the blue background tricks the mind's eye to balance it all. I'm still on the photo period break in like Gary is and I also run a chiller to address heat.

[RCS]

My tank is far from a display at the moment. Too many plastic containers with frags for that...ah well, that's what the fish room will be for. Once I can move that stuff down there, the tank will be re-done to justify it a little more...

Supplementing with pendants is difficult at best...higher Kelvin rated bulbs are really about your only option. If you're mostly going for the slightly bluer look, I would swap out one bulb at a time, with a few weeks in-between to allow the tank's inhabitants to adjust to the new lighting level.

[ReefRacer]

Fred,
Wow... I would like to check out your setup sometime. To clarify a bit- I say the zenia is growing fast but I have nothing to compare it to. So fast for me may be slow compared to the people who use it for nutrient export. I will probably just leave the lights alone like you say, why mess with a good thing. I don't really have much cash to throw at the tank nowadays anyway since my wife will be having a baby in the summer. Kind of helps prioritize my needs/wants if you know what I mean. Mike

[RCS]

Mike,

Congratulations/condolences. :D Moving right from one "baby" to the next. Sounds like an aquarist in the making...

You may want to ask Art about what kind of growth he is/was getting from his Xenia...that would be a good baseline I think. I've gone from a single small stalk to 5-6 thumb-sized stalks in about 3-4 months now...I would consider that slow-moderate growth. Some people have Xenia that doubles daily...

I think a lot of times it's simply a matter of allowing your corals to adjust to their new surrounding before making any changes. A lot of people don't give them enough credit for their ability to adapt. I think you'll be just fine.

[reefstyle]

It is very hard to have all your corals doing great at the same time because they are found in different depths and totally need different elements. I find we all try to force corals to grow with other corals(me also) keeping corals that are alike would give you one answer for softies / sps would be an other answer. Find what you like the best and do that. You can house alot of corals together but its alot more work. Different elements/light/salt levels ect... (rule on lighting the lower you drop in the tank the faster the par level drops no matter what light you run) 400 mh are for major growth on sps/ 250 can give good growth also/ 175 will house not much growth to close to the water can heat up the tank (with all of this lights) trace elements can be a bigger problem other than lights. hope this helps dennis:D