Confused about all of these calcium supplements

[johnnstacy]

First I bought the calcium reactor. Then the Kalk reactor, then the calcium chloride. Now the B-Ionic. I'm getting confused. Do all of them have a separate function?

I was reading an article that said if your calcium is low, then using my calcium reactor and kalk reactor won't do a thing. They recommended I use Turbo calcium to get it where I want it. But then if I'm worried about chloride ions or something like that, I should use the b-ionic. Sheesh.

My understanding of supplements is limited to this:

Use the calcium reactor to raise and maintain your calcium level.

Use the kalkwasser to offset the low ph caused by the calcium reactor.

I know there is a lot more to it. Anyone have any good references explaining it all.

And I haven't even mentioned alkalinity........:eek1:

[Travis L. Stevens]

Okay. I can break this down for you. If you have the two part B-Ionic (or a like system) here is what you can do. I'm sure someone will post a link to the advanced aquarist article that Im thinking of later.

Situation 1 - High Alk/Low Ca
Add enough of the Calcium component over time (not all at once) to bring everything back up at an equal level. Then use a Calcium reactor, drip Kalkwasser (limewater), or use both parts equally of your 2 part system to keep it in line

Situation 2 - Low Alk/High Calcium
Same as above except use the alkalinity component

Situation 3 - High Alk/High Calcium
You can either wait for it to fall or do water changes for best results. There are other ways, but who wouldn't benefit from a nice water change?

Situation 4 - Low Alk/Low Calcium
Add equal amounts of both components at a higher rate until you get everything back in line.

*Note: You must find out the rate at which your tank uses Alk and Ca. When maintaining your Ca/Alk, you must replace the amount that is used. It could be 1tsp/gallon of kalk to 3tsp/gallon of kalk (superstaurated with vinegar). Or any chosen method. Recommended Alkalinity is 7 dkh - 11dkh. Recommended Calcium is 380 - 450 ppm. Also, make sure that you check your Magnesium level as it can effect how much Calcium you can hold in your tank before it precipitates out.

[DrBDC]

A ca reactor, kalk drip, kalk reactor are all used for maintaining the ca and alk levels AFTER they are correct. You then tune them to match your usage. You can use the bionic 2 part to bump either the ca or alk to the proper levels on an individual basis ie ca or alk. As your tank matures, the levels needed increase from more or larger corals consuming it. At first, just a kalk drip for evap will take care of it. As the need increases, increasing the kalk to max levels (2 tspn's per gallon). If your levels are still dropping you can increase the kalk in the water by adding vinegar and that will allow up to 3 tspns per gallon. If you still are having dropping levels THEN go to the kalk or ca reactor. They all do the same thing so multiple hammers can't all hit the same nail and are somewhat redundant. Randy has some good articles on reef chemistry I just don't have a link handy right now.

[johnnstacy]

Originally posted by DrBDC
A ca reactor, kalk drip, kalk reactor are all used for maintaining the ca and alk levels AFTER they are correct. You then tune them to match your usage. You can use the bionic 2 part to bump either the ca or alk to the proper levels on an individual basis ie ca or alk. As your tank matures, the levels needed increase from more or larger corals consuming it. At first, just a kalk drip for evap will take care of it. As the need increases, increasing the kalk to max levels (2 tspn's per gallon). If your levels are still dropping you can increase the kalk in the water by adding vinegar and that will allow up to 3 tspns per gallon. If you still are having dropping levels THEN go to the kalk or ca reactor. They all do the same thing so multiple hammers can't all hit the same nail and are somewhat redundant. Randy has some good articles on reef chemistry I just don't have a link handy right now.

Thanks for the info. So are you saying that it is not neccessary to use both the calcium reactor and kalk reactor? Which one would you use first? I started getting the idea that the calcium reactor wasn't cutting it when I was at 380 and the reactor was set at 60 drops per minute and my calcium wasn't moving. Then I increased the kalwasser and it still wasn't moving although my alk was over 16.

[bhdmc]

I agree with DrBDC. You need to adjust the Cal and Alk level first in your tank. Once that is done, then you need to fine tune whatever system you use to keep up with these level. I currently use Cal. Reactor to maintain Cal. and Alk. and use Kalkwasser during the evening to help off set low PH. Adding a second chamber to your Cal. Reactor will help offset the low PH cause by the Cal. Reactor. It took me time to fine tune my Cal. reactor to my tank. In this hobby, you need patience.

[johnnstacy]

It sounds as though my system is not ideal. I am using the calcium reactor 24/7 but then I am also using the kalk reactor connected to my ro system. In this case, most of kalkwasser is being dosed during the day when the MH are evaporating the water. Sounds like I should be doing the kalkwasser at night, not during the day.

[alten78]

Never have used a reactor but ill try to help ya out on some grey areas.

As discussed you want to get your level back to normal, to raise your calcium, this is "best" done with a calcium chloride (one part of a 2-part system.) The kalk you are dripping is calcium hydroxide which has a high ph (why it is dripped slowly at night) but will not raise your calcium, but maintain it.

ehhh just read these if nothing makes sense :)

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/april2004/chem.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/chem.htm

[jwedehase]

Interesting this comes up now, as I'm searching for a better answer.

I use kalkwasser as 100% top off via kalk reactor. I am using SeaChem's "Reef Advantage Calcium" for calcium and their buffer for alkalinity. I am barely able to maintain a level of 370ppm/8dKH. To do this, I am dosing in 2 TBSP (yes, tablespoons) of each of the two additives daily, calcium at night, buffer in the morning.

I don't feel I should have to use so much additive just to maintain levels. Thoughts?

The tank is a 38g, heavily SPS dominated. Magensium is at 1450ppm.

[DrBDC]

First just use the ca and alk parts of a commercial 2 part or Randy's homemade formula to get them at your wanted levels.

Then, I would set it up first to do all top off via kalk be it a kalk reactor or dripping. You don't need both. If you want most of it to go in the tank in the eve for pH changes then just put it on a reverse timer. If you have a fuge/sump, put some cheato in and light it reverse of the display and maybe you won't need to limit the kalk to night time. If you have a really hight ca/alk demand do the vinegar with it and it won't be as high of a pH and you won't need to limit it to night.

Then, if the 2 tspn's/gallon kalk or 3 tspn's/gallon of kalk with vinegar doesn't keep up, try increasing evaporation with a fan so you can up the drip/kalk reactor speed.

Then, if it still doesn't keep up, then fire up the ca reactor and slowly increase the drip speed until you reach the balance. I'm no help on ca reactor settings since I get about 3-4 gallons per day of evap which allows alot of kalk water to keep up with it. Any little bit that it doesn't is easy to fix with a little bit of Randy's homemade 2 part.

In short, keep it simple and only add the extra toys when you have to but maximize the benefits of the simple ways first.

jwedehase, if you are already doing 100% kalk top off, do a daily test for alk and what daily drop you have. If you find you need a bump of 1 dKh a day for example, keep following for a few days and see if it stays constant. After that, just add 20ml for example of each every day and check back in a week. If you are drifting up or down then adjust. After awhile of the weekly you'll move to 2 weeks, then more. An easy way to keep from seperating is to get a couple 20 oz soda bottles and make a drip with an airline. Then you just go in in the morn and dump the daily amount in each and let it slowly drip. A more expensive way is to get one of those 2 channel dosing pumps that you can set the daily ml's. I personally wouldn't spend all that money for the commercial buffers and adavantage stuff when snow melt and baking soda are only 10-20 bucks a year. That and water changes are all you need. After each water change or to the new water there will be an adjustment needed with baking soda or cacl and maybe epsom salts. I happen to do mine after I change the water but some will check it before. It would be better before on a smaller system like under 75 gallons total system volume.

[jwedehase]

My concern is the massive amount of consumption. Let's look at some numbers for alkalinity.

I'm dosing 2 TBSP/day into 38g to maintain 8dKh

2tbsp = 6 tsp

Seachem's "Reef Builder" claims 2.5tsp makes 1meg/L in 50 gallons.

2.5tsp (example) into 6tsp (my dose) = 2.4, so my dose should add 2.4 meg/L to 50 gallons.

My tank is 38g. Into 50, that's ~1.3. 1.3 * 2.4 = 3.12 meg/L I'm adding daily. 3.12meg/L is 8.7dKH addition daily.

Something's not right.

[NanoTX]

A cheap, yet effective, solution (ha) is Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime. Read this article. (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php)

[DrBDC]

Originally posted by jwedehase
My concern is the massive amount of consumption. Let's look at some numbers for alkalinity.

I'm dosing 2 TBSP/day into 38g to maintain 8dKh

2tbsp = 6 tsp

Seachem's "Reef Builder" claims 2.5tsp makes 1meg/L in 50 gallons.

2.5tsp (example) into 6tsp (my dose) = 2.4, so my dose should add 2.4 meg/L to 50 gallons.

My tank is 38g. Into 50, that's ~1.3. 1.3 * 2.4 = 3.12 meg/L I'm adding daily. 3.12meg/L is 8.7dKH addition daily.

Something's not right.

If you make it 12 dKh, the next day it is at 3.3?

[jwedehase]

dKh will be at 8. I'll dose 2TBSP. Next day, dKh is at 8. If I don't dose, it's more like 7, or just under. These numbers lead me toward precipitation.

<shrug>

[DrBDC]

Actually, if you use the chemistry calculator

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chem_calc3.html

And you plug in your numbers, to go from 8-11 dKh takes 2 tspns reefbuilder dry. So you are bumping it 6 dKh a day which would be 14 dKh. That can very easily cause a precipitation event. You are probably losing some to that. And if the next day you only drop 1 more, it's more likely you use 1 dKh per day or maybe 2. I'd go to basic baking powder and shoot for 10 or 11 using the calculator. Test an hour later, make sure it does read that number, then recheck the next day. Only shoot for 10 or 11 though. After you determine the daily drop with that, go back and try to use the correct amounts of your reefbuilder if you must.

You don't need to bake the baking powder unless you have pH under 8.1, maybe even as low as 8.0. But if that is the case there is probably a CO2 issue and artificially raising it with things is futile and just masking the problem. How much limewater a day do you add? Use that calculator and you can play with the numbers and find out how many dKh it is taking care of for you.

At heavy growth I can lose 2-3 dKh even after replacing 3-4 gallons of evaporated water with saturated kalk which is approx 2 dKh on 200 gallons so that makes about 4 dKh per day. I get about an approx 14 drop in ca to match that. .

[tingram]

3 tspn's/gallon of kalk with vinegar
How much vinegar should be added?

[DrBDC]

You have to go search the chemistry forum for that one. On the search use "kalk and vinegar". I believe it is 45 ml/gallon but go search.