Opportunity to buy used system, first tank.

[reverendmaynard]

Hey everyone,

My first post about, possibly, my first SW tank. I do have a couple of FW tanks, however. I've been lurking for a few weeks, so I feel pretty knowledgable, but I need some advice. I'm sure some kind soul out there will help steer me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

I know a guy who will sell me his 125 gal system. He's asking $400. It consists of a standard 72X18X22 125 USG tank, cast iron stand, 3 AQ 110s, heaters, LR (I don't know how much, but it looked almost too crowded to me), crushed coral substrate, glass tops, a 6X20W regular flourescent light, and one royal gramma. He also say's he's got the parts for a VHO lighting system that needs to be assembled that he's throwing in. It's currently running, with one fish still living, but it's in a sad state of disrepair. There's barely enough water to cover the filter intakes, leaving about 10% of the LR exposed. All lit surfaces are covered in a dark green algae. When seperated, the parts of the LR not exposed to light are a light tan color with no apparant algae, corraline, or other life.

The tank is not drilled and it's current filtration/circulation consists entirely of the 3 HOBs. It's filthy, but I've cleaned up some filthy tanks before, enough to make them presentable, and it's going in my basement so it doesn't exactly have to be a showpiece (and I may build a custom stand/canopy that would hide the tank trim.) I didn't see any scratches on the glass, but with it being so dirty and algae encrusted, I couldn't examine every inch. If there are scratches, is there any way to get them out? He's got a couple of skimmers, but they're not running, and he advised me they probably won't work.

The current light would be sufficient for FO, I think. I didn't get any details on the VHO equipment, but that's pretty expensive stuff, no? I'd like to be able to keep soft corals/mushrooms.

So, does this sound like a good deal? I'm pretty handy, and intend to do some DIY projects: modified pretzel overflow (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=503664&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) , sump (w/ UGJs on the return), downdraft skimmer, etc. I'm just concerned that the LR and substrate may not be as "live" as it should be. I didn't see any tiny critters crawing on it, but then I didn't observe it for long and the water was not too clear. Even though it's not really a complete system as most of you folks would think of it (no sump, skimmer, powerheads, etc.) it seems to me there's pretty good value in the tank, stand, covers, lights, filters, heaters, etc. But what really tips the balance is all that live rock, that could be worth $400-500 right there. That's of course, if it's really alive. I'm sure it's still doing it's job on the bacterial level, any porous surface would do, but what about all the little inverts and such? What are the chances that they're in there? If they're not there, is it just a matter of reseeding with a small quantity of fresh LR to kick start it again? Of course, I could always convert the whole thing to an african lake setup!

Any and all opinions/advice would be appreciated.

[sage1970]

I started out with a "pre existing" set up....like you said, a lot of the time the rock is worth the cost of everything else!!!

We just bought a tank that was over run with hair algae and bubble algae....but after we got done cleaning it up...there was beautiful rock work underneath.

I personally think its a good way to get started with the initial set up costs....but I am sure that others will have additional comments.

But, SW can be an expesive hobby and very addicting! LOL

[Randall_James]

Hey first off
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>
reverendmaynard

I think you can find a better "Reef" setup used myself. If you want a FO or FOWLR then maybe it is not so bad. But the tank is not drilled. crushed coral is pretty useless, the glass tops are not needed and you have a ton of work to do to it to make it good again. (without seeing the rock it is hard to say what it is worth but say $2 a lb?). You still also need circulation for the thing.

I also have a distinct preference for 24" wide tanks. The 18 is ok mind you but when you get a 24, it opens a lot of space for aquascaping.

I would continue to shop some more myself. There are some pretty nice deals that come thru for $500 to $800.

[roader247]

If I were you I would buy it it sound like a good project, and your on the right site just read read read good luck

[reverendmaynard]

Thanks all for your replies! Keep 'em coming!:D

[Randall_James]

I guess I could clarify a bit better. I am not saying it is a bad deal but for a reef tank, I think you could use a better head start if you are buying used.

If the thing is as bad off as you state, then you can probably count on most of the hardware being pretty much in need of replacement. I sort of compare this to buying any used toy. If it looks bad, odds are good it is bad..

The last used setup I got was $600, was a 90G tank, with 2 X 250W MH, Closed loop, Little giant 4x pump, stand oak canopy, 2X96w 50/50 actinics, canopy fans, sump, skimmer, mag9.5, 75lbs live rock, dozen corals, worlds ugliest fish (PJ Cardinal), several hundred dollars worth of chemicals, test kits, cleaning accessories, misc parts. This tank was up and running when I saw it, it had some algae issues but outside that, it was taken care of.

[reverendmaynard]

Originally posted by Randall_James
I guess I could clarify a bit better. I am not saying it is a bad deal but for a reef tank, I think you could use a better head start if you are buying used.

If the thing is as bad off as you state, then you can probably count on most of the hardware being pretty much in need of replacement. I sort of compare this to buying any used toy. If it looks bad, odds are good it is bad..

The last used setup I got was $600, was a 90G tank, with 2 X 250W MH, Closed loop, Little giant 4x pump, stand oak canopy, 2X96w 50/50 actinics, canopy fans, sump, skimmer, mag9.5, 75lbs live rock, dozen corals, worlds ugliest fish (PJ Cardinal), several hundred dollars worth of chemicals, test kits, cleaning accessories, misc parts. This tank was up and running when I saw it, it had some algae issues but outside that, it was taken care of.

It's not the deal you got, obviously, but does that make it a bad deal? Where should I look to find other used systems to compare? Perhaps I should try to talk him down?

I'm expecting to do a lot of work here, but with only the cleaning that I would be doing while moving it, it can apparently support itself in the short run with what's there. After all, it's doing it now. That'll give me time to add the sump and reseed the LR if necessary. After that the Aqua Clears will be kinda redundant. Heaters are cheap and if the VHO stuff works, I should be set for lights.

[reverendmaynard]

Originally posted by Randall_James
Hey first off
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>
reverendmaynard

I think you can find a better "Reef" setup used myself. If you want a FO or FOWLR then maybe it is not so bad. But the tank is not drilled. crushed coral is pretty useless, the glass tops are not needed and you have a ton of work to do to it to make it good again. (without seeing the rock it is hard to say what it is worth but say $2 a lb?). You still also need circulation for the thing.

I also have a distinct preference for 24" wide tanks. The 18 is ok mind you but when you get a 24, it opens a lot of space for aquascaping.

I would continue to shop some more myself. There are some pretty nice deals that come thru for $500 to $800.

Glass tops not needed?

Even if the rock is only worth $2/lb, it looks like a lot of rock. How much rock does it take to make a 125 look crowded?

Where can I shop? This is a guy I know who happens to be selling his tank, not from the web/a club/lfs or anything. I don't have any contacts, except for you fine people.

[areze]

glass tops are a pain in the butt. they get caked with salt in minutes literally and obstruct light. they also limit gas exchange maybe. but really its the light thing that kills them.

depending how the rock is stacked and its density, a 125 could look crowded with 100-200lbs or rock.

which sounds good, but if its full of harful critters and nasty algea it can be more work than its worth.

all in all; alot of it will not get used IMO, the filters I mean, chances are your going to want a sump; which it doesnt offer. it has no skimmer that I saw you mention, not drilled, no sump tank then, the lighting is worth diddly for a reef, maybe mushrooms but you will want more when you start looking at everything out there. its basicly a tank and rock. question is if thats worth it, it would depend how much rock there is, and just how it looks IMO.

[areze]

let me clarify, personally it sounds like a good deal. but I think Id go into it understanding everything but the rock and tank will be replaced. so Id have to plan accordingly.

Id want to drill it, buy a sump, skimmer, maybe a stream or just powerheads, new substrate, and personally I dont think I can ever go to a tank that doesnt have MH :p. so all in all the 400 is a nice deal, but id drop another 2k into it easy.

[Randall_James]

I am not saying it is a bad deal at all, no.

But the tank technically can be purchased new for about $250 last time I looked at 125's. (check glasscages.com)

That would leave 150 for a stand (almost enough). If the tank was drilled, I would look at it a lot closer...

But that leaves all the "Good deal" tied up in the rock, accessories and little stuff that adds up to a lot of money to start a tank.

Well the AquaClears are pretty much useless IMO. They do not really provide much flow and the filtration should be taken care of with the live rock. So you do not get much value out of them.

I might be nit picking just a bit but when buying used stuff, I figure $.10 to .30 on the dollar depending on what it is.

Keep in mind that this is really one of those "In My Opinion" things and what I think or feel about it is only My opinion :D

I am just saying "I" would hold out for a more complete, suitable used setup if it was me.

Take a look at the "for sale" stuff here at RC..
http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=2

[reverendmaynard]

Can I drill the tank myself? What kinda tools would I need?

[1SickReefer]

sure you can drill it (maybe not the bottom), get some diamond hole saws from ebay for the size bulkheads you would like to install.

I drilled my 120 with 5 holes in the rear four 1" and one 2" holes. I felt like a pro after the 2nd or 3rd hole. I had never drilled glass before but I honestly like drilling glass more than wood. it was very easy to do.

GL with whatever you decide to go with, and welcome to RC.

[1SickReefer]

Here some pics of the drilling.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/jbirdjjones10/DSC00873.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a259/jbirdjjones10/DSC00869.jpg

[reverendmaynard]

Looks good jbird, thanks.

Can you post more pics of the finished plumbing?

Do you have an opinion on this purchase?

[SeanySean]

$400 I wish things were that good over here, that is a brilliant deal by UK standards, LR alone is worth about £4/lb.

[WaterKeeper]

I think it is a good deal by U.S. standards too. It may be a fixer upper but with a little work it could be a gold mine.

You might clean the tank up while you store the LR in aerated buckets. Then have it professionally drilled at a glass shop. The fish could be maintained in the future sump.

While doing that I'd ditch the CC and get some base and real LS to set-up a DSB. In many cases one can exchange pumps on non-working skimmer and make them work. If they are HOB skimmers I wouldn't worry about them and get a new one.

Overall, I think it is a good deal and good luck doing the makeover. :thumbsup:

[reverendmaynard]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'm leaning towards taking the deal. If I can get him down to $300, I'll take it for sure.

I could get a 29g for the future sump and run one of the ACs on that to try to keep the fish alive while I take my time setting up the rest.

The LR needs to be kept heated as well as aerated, right? I'd essentially be "cooking" the rocks while getting the main tank setup. Once ready to setup, I could seed with some fresh LR to get the hitchhikers.

How much do you think it would cost to set up the DSB/

[reverendmaynard]

I'm also wondering how important it is to get it drilled at all. I don't have a vehicle capable of moving the tank, so need to beg/borrow/steal as needed. Unless I arrange to have it drilled the same day I pick it up, that'll mean getting a vehicle a second and/or third time.

People seem to be having good results with HOB overflows (see the pretzel overflow link), and surely the return being HOB wouldn't present any problems. These PVC projects actually seem pretty fun, and using black PVC and a canopy should be able to keep it as unobtrusive as a drilled system, no?

[MCary]

That would be my advice. Offer $300. sounds like he want to get rid of it. Like Tom said, skimmers probably just need pumps unless there air driven or crap like prisms or sea clowns. A new 125 tank could cost $300. If the VHO setup has ballasts then you have the start of some decent lights. Lots of LR. That stuff is worth the money right there. Even base rock can cost $1.50 a pound and twice more to ship.

For $300 you have little to lose. Clean it up and resell it for $600.

Mike

[reverendmaynard]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm going to offer $300, but I'll probably pay the $400 if he won't go lower. If worse came to worse, it's pretty much a complete African Rift Lake setup as is, with a lot of clean-up, obviously.

[reverendmaynard]

Yes, I've been told the VHO stuff includes ballasts and bulbs.

[WaterKeeper]

I'd go for it Reverend and may God bless your choice. :D

[theatrus]

Let us know how the rehabilitation goes! :) We like pictures.

[Randall_James]

300 makes it look much better :D