getting too hot with lights on

[iansnakebite]

i've got a juwel rio 180 tank which i have recently converted in to a reef tank but with the extra 2 tubes i have put on it i'm finding that its getting too hot during the day around 81F durung the day and 76F at night any sugestions please?

ps great site :)

[Teeka]

Do you have a canopy? If so do you have fans in it? You may need to get a chiller.

[peecook]

my tank was in the low 80s this summer and i didnt see any negative effects in the tank

[peecook]

btw, do you have any fans on your lights now?

[mikeatjac]

Try fans and direct some of the water flow towards the water surface to lower the temp. 81 is not bad, you might try raising you night time time. You temp swing is too much. A chiller is expensive but that is an option too.

[justgeorge]

If there is no room in the canopy for fans and if you have a sump for about $8 you can put a clip-on fan on the sump blowing across the water in the sump and cool it that way.

Keep in mind adding fans that blow across the water either in the canopy or in the sump will increase your evaporation rate (which is how it cools the water). You'll be adding more top-off water than before so plan accordingly.

George

[iansnakebite]

there are no fans in the canopy its the standard lid tith two extra tubes fitted

[Randall_James]

81 is not all that bad, adding a fan or 2 to the canopy will help

HOWEVER:
I would bump the heater up myself......

Why?

Temp swings, the 81 while not so bad, the 5 degree swing twice a day is...


EDIT: Sorry I missed mikeatjac's post about the temp swings...

[iansnakebite]

where can i get the fans from please?

[mikeatjac]

Radio shack has some small computer fans a lot of people use.

[mikeatjac]

Put your fan on the light timer.

[iansnakebite]

i like the sound of the clip on ones where are they available and is it safe to have them so close to salt water as not water proof?
Ian

[greenbean36191]

Neither the high temp nor the temp swing are problems. 81 is about the yearly worldwide average for natural reefs. Many are hotter. Stability is also much more unnatural than a 5 degree daily swing, which can happen within a few hours on a real reef.

[ILikeFish]

my suggestion is dont worry about it. Start stocking if you've cycled

[coreygoforth]

use a chiller

[milhouse74]

I would go with a clip on fan. I came home one day to a tank that was 90+ degrees, since I have used a clip on fan and never gotten above 82.

[iansnakebite]

still no idea where to get a clip on fan i live in the uk any web links please

[milhouse74]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/15CM-CLIP-FAN-DESKTOP-DRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ6016600180QQcategoryZ20612QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[iansnakebite]

thanks for that was just browsing ebay and found this what you think?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SIX-Fish-Reef-Aquarium-Marine-Fresh-DC-Cooling-FAN_W0QQitemZ7726920073QQcategoryZ20755QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[milhouse74]

Well, how would you utilize it? The one I pointed out could be positioned to blow on the waters surface easily and help with evap. Plus if it bluws at a spot between the bulb and the surface it would cool the air before it hits the water too.

I guess either could work, but how would you hook it up?

[mikeatjac]

Home depot sells clip on fans and you can make one your self with one from radio shack.

[mikeatjac]

And DO worry about it. The temp swings are very bad.

[greenbean36191]

Temp swing ARE NOT bad at all. They happen on the natural reefs all the time and many animals can't complete their lifecycles without them. Reefs are not by any means stable environments, and a stable temperature is much more unnatural than a fluctuating one, though I won't go so far as to say stability is harmful. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the temperature in your tank.

Edit: Here are a couple current temperature plots from the FL Keys that show how temp varies during the day. These are very typical graphs and sometimes the variation is even more.
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/show_plot.php?station=smkf1&meas=wtmp&uom=E
http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/show_plot.php?station=fwyf1&meas=wtmp&uom=E

[Randall_James]

Well all I could find from reputable sources (Bob Fenner) is 2 to 3 degrees swings during the day are not so bad, 4 degrees or more can stress the animals in a home aquarium. (WetWebMedia.com)
That would sort of indicate that the 5 degrees a day may in fact be an issue for some fish.....

Mine swings 3 degrees a day and no problems. I suppose a lot if it depends on "What" is in the tank also. He made reference in a couple posts about 1 or 2 degrees only for some species.

Bigger swings in the wild may be easier to cope with as oxygen levels may be more stable, fish can also find cooler layers I suppose if they really need it.
I do know some fish come and go with the tides. Maybe it is temp related at some level?

[iansnakebite]

Originally posted by milhouse74
Well, how would you utilize it? The one I pointed out could be positioned to blow on the waters surface easily and help with evap. Plus if it bluws at a spot between the bulb and the surface it would cool the air before it hits the water too.

I guess either could work, but how would you hook it up? exactly the same way as you just said it hinges like the fan you showed and i'd put it on my light timer so it switches on with me lights

[milhouse74]

Yeah I notices that after. Originally I only looked at the top pic, after I read the whole thing.

[iansnakebite]

cheers mate will go and buy one after christmas tank is still very new and has only been set up about 3 weeks so no live stock yet just live rock and live sand

[greenbean36191]

Well all I could find from reputable sources (Bob Fenner) is 2 to 3 degrees swings during the day are not so bad, 4 degrees or more can stress the animals in a home aquarium.
And what is this based on? Most experts agree that natural reefs are not stable environments. The animals that live there have adapted over millions of years to deal with temperature swings. Lots of them even need the swings to induce their normal breeding cycles. Why would they have more trouble with less drastic swings in captivity? Other experts like Dr. Ron also recommend allowing temp swings.

I think a lot of times people follow advice simply because of name recognition without asking why. The myth about the importance of temp stability is so widespread in the hobby that when someone who is supposed to be an expert says it's true then it really must be. If he gives some facts to back up his claim I'm willing to listen, but I have a feeling he's just repeating what he's always been told.

[reefer1187]

use a ziploc bag with some ice cubes :-D no more then 1 dollar make sure the bag is sealed though

[milhouse74]

Soda bottle full of frozen water

[Randall_James]

Well the posts were by Bob Fenner. And yes I agree that reefs do go up and down in temp. Living on the ocean for the years I did, (west coast) the temp swings are probably not near as rapid as occur in a small glass bowl full of water. This might be highlighted by the fact that we go to some trouble to normalize water changes to tank temps, new fish are acclimated to tank temps rather than just dumping them in there. I also am familiar with the stratification of the water column in the ocean, if a fish does not like a temp, it can find cooler, warmer waters pretty easily if really needed. Not sure this is so possible in a reef environment but sure is easy when bugging off the coast.

I realize that you yourself are an expert and I am not disputing your statement, I am just noting that it is possible that some of our tank inhabitants are not so keen on 5+ degree temp changes.

And perhaps Mr Fenner is full of it, but I would still heed his advice as his experience makes me look like a 1 day rookie. Besides I hate killiing stuff to find out I was wrong....

Sorry if you took it as a personal attack.

[greenbean36191]

I'm certainly not an expert by a long shot. Give me a few more years in the hobby and school and then maybe I'll work my way up there. Also, there is no need to worry about me taking it as a personal attack. I didn't. After going back and reading what I wrote, it does seem kind of angry, which wasn't what I intended.

I'm genuinely curious why he says that a 5 degree swing is detrimental. What I was trying to point out is that whenever something doesn't quite sound right it's good to ask why, even if an expert told you so. Remember that it was just a few years ago that the hobby experts were warning of the dangers of bristleworms. Mr. Fenner has been in the hobby for longer than I've been alive but I get the impression that he's saying that because that's just the way things have always been done rather than based on sound evidence.

FWIW my tank has been going strong for almost 3 years with a 5 degree daily swing. The corals are healthy and growing quickly and there haven't been any mysterious losses or illnesses.

[Randall_James]

I can understand your point. To bolster such fact, I can show you a 400G coral only tank that sees a full 10 degree swing daily. This tank has a reputation as well for bringing back corals that were doomed, fish that should have been flushed and a number of other very unlikely things. (The Coral Reef in Fort Wayne IN) and there are a number of people that will tell you some pretty off the wall stories about this 3 tier custom tank. It is pretty neat just in its unique design alone.

I have also found over time that many times, both sides are correct given a set of circumstances. That is part of the problem with advancement in this hobby, people stand to firm on a belief. If one keeps in mind that it is in fact possible many times for both stories to be correct, then often you can find the real answer to a problem. Both were looking from the wrong angle so to speak.

This place is always fun anyway so do not make it to easy to get away with errant facts :D Or I will cure Ich with my garlic soaked Gym socks. (no ich since I put them in my tank ya know)