water movement ?

[allenpantino]

I am new to the hobby.I have a 65 gallon tank with a lot of rock in their. How much water movement should I have in a tank that size??? its a reef tank with 5 fish,1 anemone 1 branching euphyllia. And is water movement that critical to the tank?? thanks for your help.

my filter is a fluval404 and i have a protien skimmer prisim pro red sea

[thedog]

[welcome]

water movement is very important, anemone will need a lot. how much movement do you have now. also, what is your lighting the anemone will need lot and lots of light.

[allenpantino]

Thanks for the reply. The lights I use are 2, 40 watt 48" Marine Glow from 7-6pm and 1, 36 watt blue moon 48" from 6 pm to midnight.

The water flow I have right now is from the skimmer and the vuval the head is pretty stong but its behind the rock blocking movement.the skimmer and the head to the vuval are next to each other on one side of the tank. The anemone is on the opposite side but does get light striaght on. its in the center of the tank. not to high to the light.any suggestions. and thanks again.

al

[Fred_J]

Normally water flow is expressed as tank turnover. Most people like to see 20 to 40 times the tank volume as turnover per gallon.
Anemone's are considered difficult to keep, and need very strong lighting. It's hard to say how many watts per gallon as the distance from the light is also important.

Fred

[boxfishpooalot]

If you have slow water flow, the gasses that surround the tank will be slow to exchange and become balanced. Think about the reef and all the crashing waves.

WATER MOVEMENT FACTS:
According to Eric Borneman's book, these are some typical flow rates:

-Low Flow = 0.5 - 2 in/sec
-Medium flow = 2.5 - 8 in/sec
-High Flow = 8 - 20 in/sec
-Very High Flow = above 20 in/sec

And these are some typical flows in different areas of the reef:

-Reef Crest, fast currents, wave surge = 3 - 13 in/sec at times up to 3 ft/sec
-Lagoon = 0.5 - 6 in/sec
-Deep Fore Reef (deeper than 82ft) >2 in/sec
-Mid to deep fore reef = 2 - 3 in/sec
-Shallow fore reef = 3.5 - 6 in/sec

[Avi]

The amount of water flow in a reef is really important. It took me a while to understand that in other than conceptual terms. I started out with about 20 times of gph of flow re the gallons of water in the tank, but I found that even higher flow made a big difference in the health of the tank...It's quite surprising. The issue that presents itself is how to have the kind of flow that's not just a constant blast of water coming from narrow powerhead outlets. For a good quality kind of flow check out the Tunzesthe, and less costly Seios.

[Randall_James]

I would aim for about 30X for now, more if you go with SPS. And AVI has a very valid point about the type of flow. A wide turbulent flow is far more desirable than a narrow jet.

On a sidebar, I would get rid of the Anemone (at least for now) to someone that can take care of it. There is a grocery list of reasons one does not belong in a new tank. Suffice it to say, they are very valid reasons and might save you a lot of heartache so early in the hobby. In that tank also, water quality is going to be a problem.

You do not say the type of fish you have but regardless, Anemone's require really good water.

This is hard to do in a new tank without fish IME. The instability of the water quality is only going to create a lot of stress on the poor guy..

[justgeorge]

Originally posted by Randall_James

On a sidebar, I would get rid of the Anemone (at least for now) to someone that can take care of it. There is a grocery list of reasons one does not belong in a new tank. Suffice it to say, they are very valid reasons and might save you a lot of heartache so early in the hobby. In that tank also, water quality is going to be a problem.

You do not say the type of fish you have but regardless, Anemone's require really good water.



They also require a lot more light than what you have. Sorry.

[moprint]

i would get a couple of seio 820 and put in there. your lights are not even close to what an anemone needs, sorry

[SeanySean]

Just been reading about the seio's, they look really good, do you think 2 x seio 1500 would be ok for a tank measuring 48 x 36 x 36?

[Avi]

I do think that would be pretty good, Sean....I have an 1100 and a 1500 on my 48 x 24 x 24 inch tank and it's just about right....for LPS and soft coral. For an SPS tank it would be all right and you could even do with a small bit more.

[SeanySean]

I do think that would be pretty good, Sean....I have an 1100 and a 1500 on my 48 x 24 x 24 inch tank and it's just about right....for LPS and soft coral. For an SPS tank it would be all right and you could even do with a small bit more.

How have you set them up in your tank, I have been trying to find ways to keep anything non reef hidden, but I guess you just have to bite the bullet when it comes to flow. how big is the 1500 Avi?

[Avi]

I don't like putting powerheads in my reef much, but it's sometimes necessary. In my setup, it more or less is. The 1500 is kinda big....maybe about 6-inches by 3.5-inches. But, I'm thinking of getting those new Icecaps when they come out this winter. They're gonna be costly but they look like a good option anyway.

[SeanySean]

costly is always the way it seems, I think I will go for a 2600 and a 1500, wish I could get them in the states they work out at £40.00 compared to £130.00 talk about being ripped

[Avi]

Well, maybe the preferable Tunzes would be more cost effective for you over there in Europe, even if not cheaper, because with the Tunzes you could adjust the flow much more precisely.

[SeanySean]

They are even more?!?!?! Think I will stick with the seio's otherwise peoples xmass presents are going to be sacrificed :)

[allenpantino]

what is a good suggestion for lighting in my tank and why is water quality going to be an issue in my tank? and how can I improve it to be a consistant good quality level of water? Thanks guys I really apreciate your help.

al

MY FISH: 1 KOLE TANG,1 YELLOW TANG, 1 PAJAMA CARDINAL,1 Pasquali CLOWN, 1 BLENNY (HES ALL YELLOW i DONT THE TYPE OF BLENNY)

[Avi]

Well, Al....are you just going to keep fish in the tank or are you going to add coral?

And, as for the water quality, without knowing any more specifics about what water quality problems you're having, I'd suggest that you get the best protein skimmer you can for your tank. That alone should go a long way in helping.

[allenpantino]

I want to add coral but not until I feel comfortable taking care of them properly and taking care of the tank. I bought the tank from my neighbor, he actually maintained salt and fresh water tanks for a living he moved to Florida sold me the tank and I have lost contact with him. he had the tank established for about 8 years. Then I moved it to my house. Was it like starting over when I moved it? There was only the clown in the tank and thats it. the rest I have put in there since.

my water quality is as follows
PH 8.2
NITRITE 0
NITRATE 40
AMMONIA 0
WATER TEMP 84 F
SALINITY 1.022

thanks Avi for all of your help and advice

[allenpantino]

aslo to add...when I bought the tank it also had about 200 lbs of live rock

[Avi]

Everything looks pretty good, actually, though I would raise the salinity to 1.025 0r 1.026. Your nitrates also should be addressed though they aren't at a critical level. Water changes, particularly with RO/DI water would help get that down. Do you have a good skimmer on that tank?

[allenpantino]

I have a protien skimmer prisim pro. red sea model. what about my lighting I use 2 40 watt lights for the day and 1 40 blue moon light for 6 hours. after the day light.

[Avi]

Don't take offense, and I don't know this from any of my own experience, but from reading here in RC, I don't think that the Prism skimmers are as effective as many others and that could be contributing to, or at least not correcting, your nitrates. I understand, again from reading here, that the Remora skimmers are recommended as a good, effective skimmer that's hangon if you don't have a sump. But, I also understand that 65-gallons is a bit beyond the ability of hangon skimmers. That's one reason why a sump is so much of a help in having a successful reef, especially a larger one, which 65-gallons is the beginning of.

I also think that your lighting is insufficient for your needs. General rules don't help much but the general rule is something like a minimum of 4 watts per gallon of water for a good start in lighting a reef tank. You're way less than that with the 120-watts you have. And, from what your saying, you only have 80-watts going in the daytime. By any analysis, that's way too low for supporting coral in a reeftank. I would recommend that you get a fixture that has four 65-watt power compact bulbs as a minimum for getting your reef ready for some coral. My genuine recommendation is a metal halide setup but if you don't want, for any reason, to go that route then the power compacts that I mentioned is a start. There are other options like t5 lighting and there are people here in RC that can help you arrive at a good t5 fixture.

But essentially, it's the protein skimmer and lighting that you would have to upgrade and then you'd be on track for a really good reef.

[allenpantino]

Thanks for the input Avi. No offense taken. Thats why I'm on this site is to gain knowledge. I will definitley upgrade my lighting and get a better skimmer also. And Thanks again for your help.

[Avi]

well, Al...good luck and I'll be here if there is any other help you need for your reef.

[allenpantino]

Avi I got my hands on a 15-20 gal. sump system and was wondering if this insump skimmer would be a good choice?? Its called the AquaC Urchin/Urchin Pro Protein Skimmer. I have a 65 gal. tank.Let me know what you think. Thanks.

Al

[Avi]

I can tell you that I have a skimmer made by Aqua-C...Mine's for a larger tank. It's an EV-180 and I am very satisfied with its quality so I think that their products will be good. The Urchin Pro needs 20 inches of clearance in the sump so make sure you'd have enough room. I think that it would be fine, in fact very good, for you. It's definitely stong enough for your tank and you'd be in very very good shape skimmer-wise for your reef.

[allenpantino]

Thanks Avi. Your're great!

[Avi]

Lemme know how it all works once the new equipment is up and running, Al.