yellow tang turning brown

[mojo215]

This is my 2nd and last yellow tang. He is turning brown patches. I have tried everything, nothing works. I was told they will turn brown if they don't like the water quality. All test are as they should be. Did a water change, added malachite green and copper. Still brown.

What is this and how do you get rid of it. I feed him garlic twice daily. He eats fine and acts find. He just looks awful.

Help please.:eek1:

[billsreef]

We'll need a little more info. What size tank, filtration, general set up, tank mates and such. How long have you had the fish and did you add it directly to the tank or is in a quarantine tank. Also it is generally a good idea to post the actuall water test parameters, sometimes there is a clue in there.

Are these brown areas just dark blotches or do they look like something covering the skin?

[mojo215]

Ihave a 75gl with berlin protein skimmer, 20gl sump under tank with bio balls(?) not sure if they should stay or not.
I had a Eheim cannister filter but disconnected it the other day as it was fouling the water and I assumed that this is why the tang turned brown.

I have LR no corals of any kind.
1 pecula
1 lawnmower blenny
1 scooter blenny
1 yellow tang
1 purple tang
1 emperor
1 puffer
2 small wrasse
1 fire goby
2 dottybacks

ph 82-84
salinaty 121
amonia 0
nitrites 0
nitrates 10
hardness (KH) is one of my problems it is 20
I am using ken superbuffer to maintain my ph and that may be causing my hardness to be so high.

None of the other fish have any sign of disease only the yellow tang.
He is my second, the first died of the same brown spot disease. He eats like he is starving, I feed garlic and Zoe with brine shrimp
and spirulina, they get Nori every day and lettuce (they love) I feed my Puffer freeze dried shrimp and they love that.

My live rock is not of the best quality, it was scrubbed clean and looked like a rock when I bought it. After reading the posts on the Reed, I am to understand it should have growth on it.

I feel my rock isn't filtering as it should?

Any advice would be very helpful as I am losing control of my tank.
:confused:

[naesco]

Are you talking about tiny black/brown specs smaller than a pin head?

[mojo215]

no. brownish red patches

[Reefmonster]

Mojo,

Did you buy this from a reputable LFS? This sounds like Cyanide Poisoning. If the fish is wasting away, or eating like you say he is, then cyandie is probably the culprit.

It could also be an intestinal parasite, but since you used copper, I doubt it. Most fish absorb copper, at least chelated copper through their skin.

That's the problem with cyanide...They always look great for about two weeks after collection, then they start this ravenous feeding and get skin blotchiness or discoloration, followed by rapid breathing, (gill movement), pale gills, and or difficulty maintaining attitude, (up/down). At the end they just start listing over and finally death.

IMO, it's a terrible way to die.

Does this sound like what happened to the other tang?

Can you look at the tangs gills? If so, do they appear pale? They should look like your gums, or inside of eyelids, essentially they should be red, NOT pink.

Let me know.

Matt "Reefmonster"

[naesco]

You definitely have a sick fish.
I would recommend you return him to the LFS for a credit. You paid good money and have 2 failed fish from them.
Be polite but firm in your demand for a credit.
You have a right to a healthy fish and you have a right to return it.
Do not accept another tang. See what you like and come back to the main forum and get some advice on keeping your choices of fish. Than go back and choose a plump, alert fish that you see eating aggressively. Do not believe the LFS if they tell you the fish just ate. If not all of the above pass on the fish there will always be another.

[billsreef]

Might have missed your answer to this, but I'm not seeing it...how long have you had the fish before seeing the symptoms?

It does sound like something that is common and related to water quality and stress, also is seen in freshly imported tangs when they've been through the hands of certain wholesalers...ones I'd prefer not to deal with ;) Usually excellent water quality and treatment in a quarantine tank with nitrofuran or Maracyn II will clear this up.

Some things about your set up and stock do concern me. The yellow tang and the purple tang are not likely to coexist in the same aquarium, especially one as small as a 75. This would place significant stress on the tangs, mostly the one that is the newest addition. If the LFS sold you the yellows knowing that you had the purple tang in the tank, go back and tell them to read some good books such as the ones by Scott Michael or Robert Fenner. You also might want to look up the Emperor in Scott Michael's book and start planning on that monster tank upgrade :D

You mention thinking the Ehiem was fouling the water, what made you think that? How often do you generally service it?

On the live rock, how much is in the tank? As far as the biological filtration end of it goes, any visible macro type life is fairly insignificant as it's the bacteria on the surfaces and in the core of the rock doing the work. The quantity will determine if removing the bioballs is feasable.



BTW Matt,

The symptoms you list are not directly related to cyanide poisining, but rather infections such as Amyloodinium or flukes. Of course cyanide poisoning can affect the fishes imune system allowing these infections to take place, but they can also occur in net caught fish as well.

[mojo215]

I don't know where to begin. First I'll state that the first yellow tang came from a reputable (?) lfs. It was in someone's tank before for a long time and they brought it in for credit. He was a beauty. I had him about 6 months before he started showing brown patches. The lfs said to do a major water change, which I did and he cleared up. About 2 months ago he started again showing brown patches. I gave him a fresh water dip but he ended up dying. I've had the new tang about 6 weeks and got him at the same time as the purple. (petco). He started showing patches about a month after getting him.

If my first did'nt have the problem I would blame Petco but I can't in this instance.

The Emperor and the tangs seem to be vieying for control of the tank so stress could be a definate factor, but very passivley. They are not fighting.

I know I'm overstalk, all I did was listen to my lfs that has been in business for 25yrs, but I don't go there anymore. They will say anything to get you to buy something.

I have about 40lbs of lr, however, again my lfs had me put copper in the tank which did a number on my lr. Is it possible it never came back to the way it should be? Being new at this I just listened to what they said.

I plan on adding more lr from Gulf, increased my circulation and am hoping for the best.

I do not have a quarantine tank, have no room for one and had no idea I would need a second tank until after I set this one up for big bucks. (I was taken big time)

As for the Eheim, again the lfs swore up and down I needed it.
It's a cannister. Food collects in the tubes and whenever you shut down the power and turn it back on all this detrius comes shooting out of the tubes. It's a huge cannister that they placed under the tank and is very difficult to get out. Therefore, I clean it once a month with much effort. I noticed after taking it out completley the water seems to smell different. Better.

No other fish is showing signs of disease or stress, just the yellow tang.

That is why I am so confused. If I had ick or something else showing I would have something to fight. But he acts fine, eats fine and is as active as they can be.

Someone said to leave it alone and let the fishes own immune system take care of it.

As far as secondary filtration, I do not plan on getting any. I hope my new rock will help. I also plan on putting in some more sand. They set me up with about 2" of sand bed. I will add 2" more.

After adding the rock and sand, I should be able to removed some bio balls. Right?

Oh, I also cut back on their feeding. I may have been overdoing it.

Can't think of anything else. I am getting a filter put out by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals that removes all metals etc so I won't be adding any chemicals back. Hope this helps as well. Can't afford an RO just yet.

Hope this helps.

Thanks





:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[mojo215]

Update on my tang. Looks like he is losing his scales.

[Reefmonster]

Bill,

I absolutely agree with you. I know that in the case of these fish cyanide could not play a role because of age, however I worked in a LFW (Nameless) here in LA for about two years and saw ALOT of yellow tangs come, go and die in our dealers tanks because of the cyanide. Many of them showed signs such as those described by Mojo.

Possibly the infections that killed those fish were secondary to immuno deflection caused by cyanide. Yes, it could also be stress related. I agree with your recommendations regarding water quality and control.

I was just passing on the information that I have gathered in my experience. I have since become a Marine Biologist and am currently in the Procurement and Estimation Department for the Cabrillo Marine Aquarium.

I suppose that I should pay closer attention in these forums because much of what was "LAW" when I was in R&D, has since become "Hogwash".... :D Thanks for the update.

Matt "Reefmonster"

[slojmn]

Just wondering about the filtration on your tank in general. You have a large bio load in the tank and it sounds like you have live rock that is dead:( due to copper, plus you took the canister filter off the system. Adding more live rock may be a waste. Once copper is in the tank the live micro fauna in the rock will die from the copper still in your system. However bacteria will build up in teh new rock which would be good for your system. What else are you using for filtration? How are your other fish looking at this time. I would consider getting rid of a few fish and seeing if the stress and load reduction helps out. I am unsure about the tang but a quarantine tank can be relatively easy to set up and cheap. Just get a 30g rubbermaid container, a small AquaClear filter, a heater, and a powerhead and you are set. Just watch the ammonia/nitrite. I would stick a piece of your rock from the main tank in the q-tank and use water from the main tank to start the q-tank. and then follow the advice above. Good Luck

[mojo215]

Slojmn

Thank you for your reply. My other fish are all fine. Should I get rid of all my old live rock and add all new? I would be willing to do that if it would solve my problem. Since disconnecting my cannister filter the water quality seems better.

I let my lfs tell me what to do. I can't believe he told me to add copper to live rock tank. What an idiot to listen to him.

I've done enough water changes in the months since adding the copper do you think it's out of the tank? Also, added more live sand.

Please respond
Thank you

[naesco]

If you were advised to put copper in a reef tank by the LFS, meet with the manager of the LFS and demand that he replace at his cost the live rock you have lost.

[mojo215]

It's not a reef, just fish and live rock. But still they where very wrong. Guess what. It was the manager who told me how to ruin my own tank.

They are not very nice people. Unfortunately they have absolutely no competition. They are the only tropical fish store in greater Mass,

We have to go out of state for any others.

[Reefmonster]

Mojo,

You don't have to get new Live Rock. I have used copper in tanks that I turned around and put inverts into, without changing the liverocks. If your other fish are doing fine then you should just stay away from tangs. If you are contemplating a reef, then you should add some fauna or flora, IE... Add a live sand starter kit from Premier Aquatics or GARF. There are probably more things alive your tank than you can imagine. Go to the LFS that is in your area....Even if they don't care about their customers, and buy some reef rock rubble. The key is to be patient.

It sounds like you have a nasty parasite in your tank that likes tangs. You can also use a semi-reef-safe med in the tank, like Maracyn II. Dose as it reads on the package and then run Pelletized Carbon for a week. Do lots of water changes with RO water and Quality salt MIX. Don't use TAP water for topoffs, no matter how GOOD the water tastes or smells. Do NOT use ready made saltwater from the stores....They can contain pollutants and PARASITES.

Just be patient. I have a thriving reef tank with GROWING corals, but I cannot keep angel Fish. Two coral beauties dead and thats enough for me. There are just some fish, even the easy ones that some people can't keep.

m.reefmonster@verizon.net

Matt "Reefmonster"

[mojo215]

Thanks Reefmonster, I am going to take your advice. But I am to understand that once you add copper to your tank its there forever.

I will try anything at this point. But not Marycyn II. Did it and it killed ALL my bacteria but it did get the bugs which was good.

I am almost ready to just turn my tank into fish only. The rock is such a pain.

I am also half done in setting up a 30 gallon quarantine tank. In this tank I will use Maracyn ll.

So I will take your advice and be PATIENT before I become one. lol

Thanks a lot.
Mojo;)

[medik13]

I know this thread has been dead for a long time but I am having the same EXACT problem with my Powder blue Tang. Did the fish make it??? Please help!

[mojo215]

You need to inspect your skimmer. Get a good on. You'll see a big change in your tang.

You can have bad water even if your tests are normal. Make the investment in a skimmer. That is your problem.

[medik13]

My skimmer??? How did you come to that conclusion? I have a southbay 6-1. It is like a Euroreef knockoff. Please elaborate more!!! What is the skimmer doing to the water causing him to turn brown?

[mojo215]

If your skimmer isn't working properly it will cause your tang some stress. If you need to elaborate more do a new post and see the replys you get. The consensus will be your water quality. Hope this helps.