A Orange-ish Rust color

[Im Lon 2]

I've had my 10 gal. salt water tank going for 3 weeks now and I'm starting to get an orange-ish Rust color that is starting to cover my Sand. What could this be, and is it bad? It is also on 1 of my live rocks.

Thanks
Lonnie

[Froil]

i believe it is just part of the cycling process, you can stir it up to get rid of it or just blow it off the rock, but i am pretty sure it is just the tank cycling.

[G-money]

Hard to say without a picture, but diatoms is a good guess. That is usually the first algae to appear in a new tank. It should go away within a couple weeks, and I wouldn't mess with anything, short of perhaps a medium-sized water change after the tank is a month old or so.

Does the stuff appear to get "heavier" as the day goes on? Does it send stringy-like growths upward (2-4") as it thickens? Is it more golden-brown than orange? If so, it's diatoms. If it's really a rusty orange, it could be dinos or cyano, but I think your tank is too new for that. As I said, if it's still there in 2-3 weeks, let us know. Till then, patience is the key.

[griss]

I agree it is most likely diatoms and will disappear after the tank is fully cycled.

Lonnie, is this your first marine tank? If so, starting with a 10 gallon tank is going to challenge...make sure to keep up on water changes and other maintenance. You will really need to watch your pH in a tank that small.

Griss

[Im Lon 2]

Yes it is more of a brown then an orange color. This Morning It was about 1/2 the tank now it is starting to cover more of the sand and even some on the side of the glass. should I wipe this off the glass, and move the sand around or just let it build to help the tank go throug it's stages.

And yes this is my 1st salt water tank. I have a 55 gal. fresh water ( that is just great) and I just bought a 75 gal with wet/dry system that I was thinking of going salt just scared of the spikes and crashes in a tank that big. What I might do is move my 55 to the 75 (fresh) and try the 55 as salt I'm not quite sure yet.

Thanks for you help.
When I get more time later today I will try and see if I can look up a picture of the DIATOMS. If you would know were I could find this please let me know.

Thanks Again
Lonnie

[griss]

Lonnie,

If you can afford to set the 75 up salt, I would do that. Changes is water chemistry are not as drastic in larger tanks. In other words, the larger the tank the more stable the water chemistry.

Also, if you make the 75 salt and intend to make it a reef (as opposed to fish only) you would be better off not using the wet/dry and just going with a deep sand bed (DSB) and live rock.

HTH,

Griss

[slimytadpole]

I'm going to have to take issue with the above. My first reef tank was a 10 gallon, and I found it just as easy, if not more so, than my current 29 gallon. While the tank may be more influeneced by a single fish dying, or a single coral sliming up, if you have proper filtration (even a simple penguin filter) then there should be no problems. Maintenance is dead simple: 10 percent water change? 1 gallon. Topping off? Add one drinking glass of water every other day. No need for an RO/DI unit for this size a tank. It's actually economical to by jugs of spring water at the local supermarket.
I think people starting out in this hobby should start out with a nano. The ten gallon easier to clean, much less expensive, and a great way to see if this hobby is for you. Why spend $1500 on a basic 75G setup, when you can set up a 10 gallon for $200.

[G-money]

I'd have to aggree with the way griss puts it. For a beginner, the dilution principle is the best thing going for them in many cases. Changes are not as sudden, pollutants and nutrients take longer to affect the system, temperature swings not as sudden. It's a more stable system, albeit perhaps less practical for the maintenance-loathing aquarist. Sure, maintenence of a 10 gallon is much easier than a 75 gallon...so what? I don't care what filtration you have on a 10 gallon, you go away for the weekend and your damsel dies, your tank is gonna be toast. Try keeping a 10 gallon tank cool in the summer without AC...

Put it this way, one of the biggest reasons we have the algae and nutrient-related problems we have is largely due to the dilution principle. If everyone could have a system approaching that of the ocean, nutrients wouldn't be as much of a factor - I realize that's not realistic, but analogous. Same thing on a smaller scale. You could offset this by more frequent water changes, but there goes your low maintenance.

Smaller is not easier - it's possibly more practical, but very limiting.
JMO...

[Nanook]

When I first read Bob Fenner's book, "The Conscientious Marine Aquarist", I paid special heed to his warning about tank size. He recommends at least a 40 gallon tank for the novice at saltwater. I think his reasons are valid as mentioned by Griss and Graham.

The smaller tanks are just not as stable as larger tanks. You have way too much leeway for instability, leading to tank crash and disillusionment with saltwater. Temps, ph, SG, etc are all difficult to keep in a tight range at this level, for the newcomer especially.

Nanook

[slimytadpole]

1) A nano does not require more work (in fact, it should require much less).
2) A nano does not require more difficult work.
3) A nano does require more consistent work.

While I agree that a larger tank is more stable than a smaller tank, I disagree that a 10 gallon tank is unstable enough to be called difficult to keep. A nano requires less work than a large tank. However, it requires more consistent work than a large tank, particularly with top-offs. I found the ease in maintainence more than offset the increase in monitoring. I do not equate the need for consistent work with being "harder to keep". I do, however equate more work with being harder to keep.
And no, having a single fish die in a 10 gallon tank should not make the tank "toast". If you have a proper clean up crew, a 10 gallon should have no difficulty handling a dead damsel.

[G-money]

Slimy,

Don't get me wrong, you are entitled to your opinion. I would be interested in how you would approach the setup of a stable 10 gallon system from a newbie perspective. For example, filtration methods, skim?, lighting, critters, fish, corals, other tips, etc. It may be helpful to offer a setup, stocking, and maintenance guideline so that other, newer reefers may have an example to follow. You have that experience, I don't.

BTW, my 90 for example, gets a daily top-off, a weekly glass cleaning, monthly water changes of 30 gallons, and routine equipment maintenence. I would wager a respectable chunk-o-change that I spend as much or less time mainaining my tank as you do (or anyone would) a smaller tank.

FWIW...

[griss]

Slimy,

Graham is taking it from the perspective I tried to give, this is the New To The Hobby forum. IMO most new reefers are not ready for Nanos.

Slimy, not all new reefers are as dilligent as you are when it comes to maintenance. Heck, most old timers here are not as diligent about maintenance:D

Griss

[slimytadpole]

Originally posted by Graham
... I would be interested in how you would approach the setup of a stable 10 gallon system from a newbie perspective. For example, filtration methods, skim?, lighting, critters, fish, corals, other tips, etc. It may be helpful to offer a setup, stocking, and maintenance guideline so that other, newer reefers may have an example to follow. You have that experience, I don't.


Gladly. I am going to make a few assumptions though:
1) All species introduced are relatively hardy. But since this is a beginner tank, that should be the case anyway, regardless of tank size.
2) We're not going to overstock the tank. Again, something that we shouldn't be doing, anyways.
3) I've always held the belief that the more natural the filtration method (the less equipment you use) the better off you will be. Unless you have a specific need for anything but the bare-bones minimum, don't add it.

I recommend going skimmerless on a 10 gallon tank. there are no mass-produced skimmers that fit nicely on a 10 gallon, IMO.
We'll go with a generic 10gallon tank, a low-power powerhead, and a penguin non-bio-wheel filter. Remove the filter pack from the filter, and drop in a bag of carbon. Since we're not using a skimmer, we need the filter to provide a method of breaking the surface tension on the water, and the penguin filter does taht just fine. Sand bed should be 3.5"-4" deep. 15 lbs live rock. Lighting will be some small PC setup. I recommend the CSL 39W setup. You can add just about any small hardy fish you want, provided they are reef-safe, and won't fight with each other. Same basic rules you would follow if you'd by a 40 gallon, just get fish that don't requre as much swimming room. No more than 2 fish, though. I recommend a clownfish, and maybe a firefish, damsel, or a goby of some sort. If you get a damsel, the otehr fish would almost have to be a clownfish, as most other small fish will get bullied.
As for corals, you'ld wait until the tank matured (just like with a larger tank). Just about any soft coral or polyp will do well here. If you up the lighting, even LPS will be fine in such a setup. As for the clean-up crew, I suggest 1 shrimp, preferably cleaner, but pepermint is fine, too. 6 astera or trochous snails, 4 nassarus snails. We don't want to go overboard here, it's better to have too few snails than too many. Sand bed worms, particularly bristle worms, since they are great scavengers.
But the real difference with a nano, and the point of this post, the maintenance. I am assuming you don't have an RO/DI unit for this small a tank:
1) topping off: Once a week buy 2 gallons of spring water from the grocery store. One for top offs, one for water changes. Shouldn't cost more than 60 cents a gallon. You should check the water level at least once every 3 days, with a larger tank, you could probably get away with 5 days. The smaller the tank's surface area, the less evaporation, so we won't have to dump in a gallon of watre each time. Your best bet would be to top off every other day, probably when you feed. Should be simple enough. I actually topped mine off every day when I fed the fish. I'd dump the fish food in a glass of spring water to thaw. Then I'd slowly pour the water in for the fish to eat.
2) Water changes: Once a week I'd mix up a batch of new water, siphon out exactly 1 gallon (using an empty 1 gallon jug) and dump in the new water. I think you'll find that after a few months, the water changes can be switched to every other week, or whenever necessary.
3) cleaning the front of the tank: same as for a larger tank. I actually only had to clean mine once every 2 weeks, as opposed to once a week with my new tank.

As for adressing the stability issues:
A) Temperature. Don't use a glass top. This will hold the heat in and can raise the temperature of the tank. If you need a top, use eggcrate. If the room your tank is in gets above 75, consider using a fan in the tank's canopy. I'd recommend the same even for a larger tank, but it's ore critical here.
B) Dead things. Get them out as soon as possible. You should really do this regardless of the tank's size. If you have the above clean-up crew, it should be able to handle the dead things anyway, so don't sweat going away for a weekend. But when you discover the dead thing, remove whatever is left.
C) Top offs. With a large tank, I would say you should check every 3 days, 7 days at most. With a nano, I'd say check every other day, 3 days at most.
D) Water changes. I don't see why a nano would require any more frequent water changes than a large tank, once it is established. Until then, as long as you are doing at leas bi-weekly changes, you should be fine.
E) Salinity. The only things that should effect salinity are evaporation, which I've already discussed in (C), and water changes (D), so if you're doing those as I have described, salinity be a non-issue.

[slimytadpole]

Originally posted by Graham
BTW, my 90 for example, gets a daily top-off, a weekly glass cleaning, monthly water changes of 30 gallons, and routine equipment maintenence. I would wager a respectable chunk-o-change that I spend as much or less time mainaining my tank as you do (or anyone would) a smaller tank.



Doubtful. My 10 gallon got a top off every other day, at most. Glass cleaning every other week. Bi-monthly water changes of only 1 gallon. I had a simple powerhead and penguin bio-wheel filter (sans bio-wheel) that required cleaning once every 3 months.
Note that the water changes were much easier for me when I had the nano, because they required no fiddling with an RO/DI unit, or lugging filtered water from an LFS. I used gallon jugs of spring water from the supermarket. I can't do that now, because even with a 29 gallon, purchasing that much water is uneconomical.

I guess I should point out, If you hadn't guessed from my previous posts, is that I find working with water (top offs and water changes) to be the biggest PITA, and the most work involved in this hobby. I don't find a linear correlation between volume of water moved and difficulty involved. More like an exponential correlation. That's why I find nano's so damn simple. Hell, with the 10 gallon, I could do a water change faster than I could brush my teeth.

[gregt]

Here's what I consider the criteria for keeping a small tank:


Do you know the biological filtration needs of the critters going into the tank, and whether the tank can handle them?
Do you know the territorial needs of the critters going into the tank, and whether the tank can handle them?
Do you know the chemical balances required for any tank, and are you aware of how to maintain those balances in a small tank? (IE: Do you know how much the salinity will change in the tank if a gallon of water evaporates, or is added to the tank? Are you aware of the effects of this type of change on the critters in your tank?)


If you can answer all those questions without hesitation, then go for it. If not, then I suggest going with a larger tank, or doing more research before you attempt the smaller tank.

Also, when doing a smaller tank, it's best if you have excellent attention to details.

If you are prone to procrastination, or take frequent extended trips aware from the tank then stick with a larger tank.

[Im Lon 2]

Okay.. Sorry to ruffle anyone feathers. I understand the thoughts on 10gal being harder or not. Kinda of good to get everyone's opinion.

But I needed help with the brown algae in my tank. What do I need to do?


Thanks again,
Lonnie

[gregt]

Sorry about missing your question.

My answer is.... Nothing. Just wait it out. It is perfectly normal. Just be sure you have adequate circulation in all areas of the tank, use RO/DI water for makeup and water changes, and it will burn itself out.

[G-money]

Imlon2,

Yes, what gregt said. Wait it out. You can siphon like mad and it is still going to come back until it runs its course. As I said, if it's still around in 2-3 weeks, you may have a larger issue to deal with.

Slimy,

Good dissertation on keeping a small tank. I have issues with some of your points, but I will let it be - it's not for this post. I'm sure your methods work plenty well for you.

[slimytadpole]

I second Greg's wait-it-out advice. After the brown stuff leaves, then comes the cyno and the hair algea. Things may get worse before they get better. Don't get discouraged if your tank looks nasty for 6 months or so. People who have tanks that look great right off the bat are the exception, not the rule.