Mineral or vegetable Oil in Tank???

[bmanzie]

Ok, I need your help. I bought a pump to help me transfer water to an from my tank for water changes. It says on the box, self priming...
Well I read the directions and it says to add 1 teaspoon of mineral oil or vegetable oil before pumping. This is not an issue when I use the pump to remove water from the tank. What concerns me is when I return water to the tank. Some of this will obviously enter the tank. Is this a major issue or is it harmless to my fish and coral???
Please advise.

[LobsterOfJustice]

Doesnt sound like this is a pump for aquariums... I would get one made for the hobby.

[dnjan]

I would never put any oil in a pump I was going use with my tank. Especially not vegetable oil. But even clear mineral oil seems un-necessary.

Is this pump saltwater-safe?

[bmanzie]

It is a flotech 1/12gp Utility Pump.
I bought it at home depot.

[dnjan]

I would return it to home depot.

I use maxijet 1200's for water changes, etc.

[dirtyreefer]

Most of the time you need to use "Aquarium grade" pumps for reefkeeping, since other pumps could contain copper or other contaminants that could wipe out your entire water column.

[bmanzie]

I think I am going to call the company on Monday to ask if the mineral oil is necessary. I really liked this utility pump because it is self priming and could handle the head hight for the price.

[dnjan]

Why is self-priming that important? I put the maxijet pump directly into the bucket I am using to refill the tank during a water change. And as far as removing water from the tank, I siphon.

[hopper]

If you are doing WC's out of a bucket, just get a small sump pump and connect some clear tubing to the outlet on top of the pump. Set the bucket next to the tank and turn the pump on. Been doing mine this way for two years with no problems. Thought maybe the saltwater would mess it up but it hasn't. Once a week I use it to put five gallons of top off water in the sump so that might be helping to clean it of salt residue.

[bmanzie]

Thanks for you thoughts everyone but I am not doing water changes out of a bucket and I am trying to make it allot easier then carrying the containers in and out of my house.
With the pump it took me 10 minutes to change and replace 30g of water.
I will keep investigating this one.
The question still stands. Does anyone know for a fact if mineral oil and a very small quantity (like a quarter of a teaspoon) is bad for my tank.

[dnjan]

Mineral oil, in and of itself, will not directly harm your tank.

Depending on how much mineral oil is there, it can form a film that could significantly reduce gas exchange at the water surface.

Mineral oil could also cause appearance problems if it gets on the sides of the tank.

I don't know what mineral oil would do in a skimmer.

Most of the concerns that people have expressed are related to the use of a non-marine-rated pump in a marine environment. Premature corrosion of a non-marine-rated pump could easily wipe out the cost savings of that pump versus one made for saltwater use.

[G_cuvier]

Any oil you get into your tank will coat _everything_ and will still be present months or years later.

As for the Flotec's I used them to run a stream in my back yard for years. One day one blew and cracked the housing. It dumped the oil into the pond, (2000 gallon). That was seven years ago. When I clean the pond today I still find oil in the muck at the bottom.

[HippieSmell]

Originally posted by bmanzie
Thanks for you thoughts everyone but I am not doing water changes out of a bucket and I am trying to make it allot easier then carrying the containers in and out of my house.
With the pump it took me 10 minutes to change and replace 30g of water.
I will keep investigating this one.
The question still stands. Does anyone know for a fact if mineral oil and a very small quantity (like a quarter of a teaspoon) is bad for my tank.

Who is going to know that? People don't put mineral oil in tanks. I think you're taking an unnecessary risk by using this pump, but it's your tank I guess. I also think that copper contamination is a real risk as well.

[kybreos]

quiet one pumps has a high head pressure pump, thats what i use to pump over a 100ft out my door to the sewer.

[bmanzie]

Are quiet one pumps self priming that you know of?

[LobsterOfJustice]

did someone say exxon valdez?

[Reeforbust]

By self priming do you mean Start pumping when in the water or when mounted externally out of the water??

do you have a drawing of what you want to do?

[bmanzie]

I need it to start pumping even if the pump starts off dry.

[Reeforbust]

Does it look like this basically???
http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/images/108541_lg.jpg

[Reeforbust]

If the pump is like the one above.....you can turn it on out of the water and then place it in the water and it will start pumping....not sure how good that is on it. I have a Danner waterfall pump that is similar to the disign above and I pull it out of the pond while its running to clean the pump sock off.......I just stick it back in when done and it starts pumping again.

All of the pumps designed like the above pump are self priming.

[trippyl]

This thread is sillyness. I got an azoo powerhead that does 630 GPH for my water changes - marine ready and 30 bucks. I guess some people like to gamble, or don't care if they lose.

[Reeforbust]

Not silly.........They just didn't know so they asked!?!?

I have all kinds of silly posts:lol:

[dnjan]

Self-priming is generally taken to mean that the pump can be mounted out of the water. When turned on, the pump can draw water uphill for a short distance, until the water gets to the pump (and displaces the air in the pump).
This is a very useful characteristic, but most of us have come up with ways to work aruond the fact that most small, marine-safe pumps that we use are not self-priming.

[trippyl]

Reeforbust,

It's one thing to ask a question because you didn't know. but to continue to suggest that you'd use it despite the wise words of this board is sillyness.

[Reeforbust]

True.......;)

You got me on that one!!:p

[bmanzie]

Originally posted by trippyl
Reeforbust,

It's one thing to ask a question because you didn't know, but to continue to suggest that you'd use it despite the wise words of this board is sillyness.

It is silly to think that a post that is asking questions is silly. The silly one here is YOU. I was just simply asking questions for my own knowledge. At no point did I imply that I was going to continue using the pump if indeed it is harmful to my tank. That is why I kept asking about this. If it wasn't going to be harmful then I would keep using it. There are lots of people on reef central that just like to put there two cents in without any facts behind what they say (Hmmmmmm). If I am going to learn anything, it is to learn from facts not someone else's ignorance. Please if you think this post is silly then feel free not to reply...

Thank you for your thoughts...

[reefshadow]

why do waterchanges from a bucket is what i want to know. :)

I got 2 roughtote rubbermaid trashcans on wheels for 10 bucks each. Takes me about 10 - 15 minutes to do a waterchange now. I can wheel them all around the house and I have girlie muscles.

:)

[aquamanathome]

Home Depot has a waterfall pump that is oil free.

[bmanzie]

Thank you everyone for your help. I have actually bought a quite one 3000 to help me with the water changes. Just to give everyone a quick idea of what I am planning to do. I will have the pump in my garage. I will run tubing through the wall into the tank with a screen at the end so no fish get sucked up. I can go through the wall because I already have a passway since I have my chiller and main pump already in the garage. Works great this way, so much less noise. Ok then I will run tubing out side to the house were the water will get dispossed of. Then I will switch the output house and the input house so I could now return the new water to the tank. I will probably use quick disconnect adapters for the house to make it easier. My thought for this was to minimize the amount of cleanup after a water change and to avoid draging in five 5g containers into my house. It worked great with the first pump I bought, lets hope it works just as well with the new pump (quiet one) I bought.

[trippyl]

Dirty Reefer made the excellent point that non marine pumps may have metals that can corrode or wipe out an entire tank. You posted a half hour later totally ignoring this valuable advice. Call me silly all you like, silly.

[bmanzie]

Actually no I did not ignore it. I took apart the pump to see if there are any metals exposed to the water while pumping. There wasn't so I took that comment and checked it out.
Anyway, it is silly to continue on with this. I have purchased another pump to do the job so I am not taking any chances.

[dnjan]

As an attempt to improve the efficiency of your process - rather than putting a hose with a screen over the end into your tank to suck the water out, is there any way you can divert water from your overflow to waste? Since the overflow water is probably the dirtiest water in the tank (assuming some of the organics are floating to the surface to be skimmed out), this would increase the effectiveness of a water change. Plus, since your pump would only be operating one-way, you could keep it primed.

[bmanzie]

And to replace the water?

[dnjan]

Originally posted by bmanzie
And to replace the water?
Gravity (from your overflow) for wasting, and your pump for replacement.

Or did I miss something, and your tank is below ground level (basement).

Now for a really slick system - a motorized ball valve on your drain line. Press a switch and the motorized ball valve diverts your overflow water to waste. A float valve in your sump determines when you have removed the desired amount of water from your system, and resets the motorized ball valve on the drain line. In the mean time, that same float valve turns the refill pump on. And a second float valve turns that pump off when the sump has been refilled to the proper level with fresh saltwater.

I can really come up with great solutions for other people's tanks, using their money ...

[kirei]

Another way to deal with the non self priming issue is to install the pump input line with a T valve, that way you can physically pour water into the T valve so that the pump doesn't start up dry. There are lots of people who use this for external pumps when they don't want to drill their sumps (take a look at some of the beckett skimmer threads).

dnjan's idea is still the coolest... but like he said, great plans with other people's money :-)

[bmanzie]

dnjan thanks, it always seems that we try to make things in life more difficult than they are.
I will try the plan to gravity feed the waste amd use the pump for refill.

[dnjan]

As long as you are not trying to change more water than would go over your overflow when you turn the return pump off, plus the amount of water in your sump that can be pumped back into the main tank before the return pump starts sucking air, getting your waste water from the overflow by gravity should be fine.

You will need to talk to somebody else about the wiring diagram for that motorized ball valve, plus the float valves, etc. ... :)

[afishyonados]

bmanzie, I have friends who have used the pumps you mentioned earlier, all of which lost corals/fish, but not for the reasons mentioned here. They all began to throw stray voltage!
Thank you for making a wise decision on behalf of your animals.
Ignore the few who do not choose to be helpful, pay attention to those who do. I have been in the hobby and industry more than 15 years, and I learn more every day! Thank you to all that continue to be supportive!