What would cause snails to keep falling off the glass & rocks?

[aquaman_68]

My snails have been falling & laying on their back side. All corals & other fish & critters seem fine. When I position the snails near the glass they start to climb back but by the next day they are laying back on the sandbed upside down. TDS on product ro/di is 0 & all parameters seem fine except for the ph in my tank has been pegging out at 8.5 with all the lights on & it drops down to 8.2 when they are off.

Any Ideas?

Would traces of copper be undetectable to a tds meter?

[crzy4reefs]

are they near any heavy flow of water when this happens? mine do that if they in the path of one of my power heads

[Steel_Phoenix]

How long have you had them? What species?

[greenbean36191]

What is your salinity and temp? What kind of snails are you having trouble with? How long have you had them? How were they acclimated?

[Dazed And Confused]

Are you dosing vodka?

[justletmein]

I had snail problems when my DI was spent and leaching phosphates (or something) back into the water.

[Mikkel]

Originally posted by Dazed And Confused
Are you dosing vodka?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Dazed And Confused]

My Nassarius snails spend most of their time on and in the sand but will occasionally stray onto the glass. They seem to enjoy climbing all the way to the top of the glass and freefalling back down. This happens quite a bit and irks my red spotted sand perch - every time something falls to the sand, he checks it out, hoping it's food. He'll give 'em a nip from time to time but hasn't hurt any yet that I'm aware of. Nassarius have as effective (and funny) self-righting technique as any snails I've ever seen. I stick with Trochus and Turbos along with my Nassarius. I've seen all of these right themselves after falling (or jumping in the case of Nassarius). HTH

[rshimek]

Hi,

Aquaman_68...

See here (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rs/index.htm) for information about many of the common grazers.

Two major things cause the snails to detatch and lie upside down. The first is inappropriate conditions in the tank, primarily salinity that is too low (they need normal reef salinity of 36 psu). The second is that they are animals that are inappropriate for reef tanks. The linked article discusses this.

D and C...

Nassarius don't "enjoy" climbing on glass. To them it simply is another substrate. Their foot is not adapted to hold on to smooth surfaces well, and they will be easily detached. This mode of locomotion, ciliary locomotion, is discussed in my column in this month's issue of [rk].

[Dazed And Confused]

Dr. Ron, are you sure they don't enjoy it? I'm sure I can hear 'em giggling on the way up and screaming, "Geronimiooooooo" on the way down!
Seriously, though, thanks for introducing them to the hobby - I think they're largely responsible for keeping the top layer of my tank and fuge turned over and all the dead crud and excess food cleaned up.

[aquaman_68]

To answer all questions above. I should have first been more detailed on what type of snails. I know nasarius spend most if not all their time either on the sandbed or under.

The problem I'm having is with astrea snails. Last I checked...SPG was 1.026. I'll check it again after I recalibrate my refractometer. My Di cart is about a year old but the color has only shifted on half the media. Nevertheless....I changed it the day I started this thread. Any other cause?

[rshimek]

Hi,

More than likely the animals are ones that should never have been collected and sold for reef tanks. A number of these species come from environments that have no smooth vertical surfaces or flat sandy areas. In other words these animals are from rocky intertidal areas with a lot of topographical relief and a LOT of current and surge. If an individual gets dislodged, it would fall into a crevice or depression, etc. In these areas, all the animals have to do to get moving again is to slightly extend its foot. The foot would likely either contact the adjacent rock substrate immediately or soon as it was "flipped" or moved. It would then get purchase and move away. Animals from these areas have no "righting" respeonse. Such a response is unnecessary, and no natural selection would have worked upon them to cause it to evolve.

Consequently, these are just about the worst possible of snails to put into a reef tank. Reef tank walls are very smooth, and the snails remain "attached" to them only due to the adhesive properties of the mucus secreted by their feet. However, on a smooth surface, that just isn't enough. So... they fall off. Once off, they can't right themselves in, what is to them, this vastly abnormal habitat.

[aquaman_68]

Checked all paremeters & they seem to be fine. Salinity is 1.026 & the refractometer is fine. I've had astrea snails in my reef for over 6 years & I have never seen this problem. The only thing that has changed somewhat is during peak lighting the PH is getting a little higher than I would like. I beleive it is due to the water coming in from the tap. The tap water had a ph of 8.2 & now it has gotten slightly higher in the last couple months. The snails I speak of falling are both larger longer established ones (over four years) & some newly acquired ones that are a little smaller. (couple months)
Got anything to add?

[rshimek]

Hi,

Changes of pH in the normal sea water range (7.9 thru about 8.4) won't affect the snails at all.

[justletmein]

Originally posted by aquaman_68
My Di cart is about a year old but the color has only shifted on half the media. Nevertheless....I changed it the day I started this thread.

A year is way to long for a DI cart IME. I never trust the color changing media either. Have you done any water changes since changing it? If not that'd be a good thing to try with water made from the fresh DI cart.

[aquaman_68]

I'm stumped. But this hobby seems to do it to me all too often & I'm a seasoned reefer.

Done about 200 gals since. No real change. Though there is less snails left to compare how many are falling!! :) I get lazy turning them over & moving them near the glass or rocks & they become lunch eventually.

[jgreen1025]

Originally posted by aquaman_68
I'm stumped. But this hobby seems to do it to me all too often & I'm a seasoned reefer.

Hi aquaman, maybe you missed Dr. Ron's comment above that your snails are likely inappropriate for reef tanks. You mentioned that your snails are Astraea. In the link he provided he specifically says that most Astraea sold in the "hobby come from the cooler waters of Baja California" and "if they fall from the aquarium walls onto the sand, they will not be able to turn over, and will die there unless somebody or something turns them over." It sounds like even Astraea from the Carribbean would be better. If you read through his articles it will give you some much better snails for reef tanks. I'm partial to Trochus and Cerith snails myself.

John G.

[aquaman_68]

You may have not read that my astrea snails have been doing fine in my tank for years. They have grown quite a bit & have never layed upside trying to get a tan. When they have fallen in the past they pretty much have hung their body out & flipped back over. (most have but a few become dinner as this is normal)

I'm looking at over 8 of them upsidown a night. I never had that, ever!!! They also seem very lazy as well...or weak.

[jgreen1025]

Sorry, I missed that bit. I'm afraid I'm of no help, then!

[rshimek]

Hi,

They are neither lazy (a human attribute) nor weak. They are simply in an unsuitable habitat. If they have been fine previously, then something has changed for the worse.

[aquaman_68]

That's what I was thinking, but I can't put my finger on it. I was hoping to get some insight as to what would cause them to do this. I was hoping someone else may have dealt with a similar situation.