Basement sump?

[Ocicat]

Does anybody here run a basement sump?

I'm weighing the benefits (there seem to be a ton of them, esp. since I don't have a good location near the tank to mix & store water) against the difficulty of installing it.... :eek:

[Shooter7]

Tom (Goalie66) has one feeding two tanks.

[brians_224]

I have one. I moved everything to the basement after experiencing two skimmer over flows and 20 gallons of h2o all over living room floor.

Its great - wish I would've done it sooner. No more space limitations, water on basement floor no big deal. The only draw back is now I run a dehumidifier 24 x 7 = $$$$. I ran one before, emptied it once or twice a week. Now I empty it 3 or 4 times a week.

[Ocicat]

Why does the basement sump make a dehumidifer more necessary? Just b/c the basement doesn't really get ventilated?

[brians_224]

I believe so.
I'm also overly cautious - I'm concerned about long term moisture damage. The sump is located in my workshop. I have a very old table saw. The saw is developing alot of rust - much more than before the sump. So I know there's been an increase in moisture. Also, I have a poured foundation. In the walls are reminents of metal straps used in forming the walls - those located nearest to the sump are rusted others are not.

I spoke to another local reefer, who runs his sump in the basement as well. He runs a dehumidifier 24x7 too. When I asked him if he has any long term concerns, his arguement was upstairs or down, the sump is going to be adding additional moisture to the air. I think you hit the nail on the head - the basement isn't as well ventilated - causing a build up.

[capncapo]

You might want to read this thread for humidity issues in your basement.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=640757

[Lost His Marbles Name]

I have a sump and a refuse in the basement

[Shooter7]

I'm wondering just how big a sump you're planning. I know I've seen you post that you were looking at tanks in the 125 - 180 gal range, but are you planning a really big sump or just something in the 50 gal range. I would think that if you had something that size that it wouldn't be all that big a deal unless you had it really enclosed in a small room or something. Now, if you're going to drop a 500 gal tub down there, I would imagine that would be different. :)

[Ocicat]

Dave, I am pretty well settled on the 180-gal display at this point. For sump I was thinking like a 55, but in the basement with unlimited space, maybe a bit bigger like 75 or 100? I'd think that might give me enough room to make part of it a refugium if I want, eventually.

[Shooter7]

Since you're still in the planning stages, I think you should go ahead and plan on putting the refugium in right from the get-go. I would think it would be a bit of a pain to try and section off a refugium area in your sump after it's up and running.

[brians_224]

capncapo - thanks for the post and information!

[Bushong87]

i have a 150 g rubbermaid sump and and 30 gallon fuge down in my basement, one big up is that since the basement is always a cooler temp i dont need a chiller, and to battle the additional moisture i run a dehumidifier as well but i dont know if its on 24/7 anymore and instead of emptying the tank manually i have a hose run to the sink that way i dont have to worry about it

[brians_224]

I totally forgot to mention the temperature benefits Bushong87
described. Its definetly another big plus.

[Im Lon 2]

Originally posted by capncapo
You might want to read this thread for humidity issues in your basement.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=640757

My whole system is in the basement and now that it cooled off I don't have to run the air as much, and my basement is very humid now. don't have time now, but I'm going to have to read this thread.

[Im Lon 2]

Originally posted by capncapo
A simple suggestion for those of you with humidity issues in the basement:

Cut a hole in your cold air return that is the size of a register. Place the register in the hole and put two screws in to hold the register. Open the register and let it suck your warm humid air into the return.

The air will become part of your heating / cooling air and will therefore be dehumidified as it passes through your system.

I have done this on two systems with excellent results. They have gone from condensate dripping off of supply runs to having a small amount of sweat. The good thing is that it costs practically nothing, takes very little time to do, and, you can do it yourself.

That figures :rolleyes: I just dry walled around my cold air return. I still might be able to do this but I Have studs up and I would need to box out the area so it does not pull from the furnace room but from the outer side of the drywall.. Does that make any since?

Would this work? With the cold air return in the basement, I might also be able to run a 2, 3, or even a 4� PVC pipe to the Cold air return so it pulls straight from the Fish so it always pulls the humidity out of the Fish room and not pull it through the whole finished side of the basement? Aren’t some furnaces setups so they add humidity to the air to keep the static electricity down, Or would this type of humidity just hurt the furnace?

[Ocicat]

Even though my basement is currently unfinished, there is actually already a vent installed in the heating & cooling duct on one side of the basement. How do do I know whether that duct is the "cold air return"?

[Im Lon 2]

It is probably not a cold air return, but could be.. Cold air returns is where the air returns back to the furnace. So it will only be sucking in the air, not blowing it out.

[DrBDC]

Alot of times cold air returns utilize the space between the joists and you'll just see sheet metal covering the gap in between to make a duct. Ours had the single vent for cold air to come out but no return. When I finished the basement I added 7 outlets and a return. Only problem with that was I need a higher cfm blower on the main unit now to blow enough air to all the upstairs and downstairs vents.

The humidifiers are for when the heat is on that way you don't dry the air too much and get nosebleeds etc. Also it's better on the wood not to get too dry. Obviously you don't want it too wet either but air conditioners are dehumidifiers by design and that's what the drain tube coming off the unit is for. Check your humidifier on the side of the furnace and if it has a control knob, turn it down to less humidity in the summer or even off so your electric bills aren't as high and you aren't fighting it. You may get by in the winter without any humidifier added on if you do a return vent in the fish room and have enough water exposed in there. You can get a little humidy/temp gauge to keep track of it for real cheap.

[capncapo]

Lonnie,

Needless to say, the more air you can pull from the fish room, the better. One thing to consider is that IF your fish room is closed off from the rest of the basement yoou will need to add a vent to the room so that fresh, dry air can enter the room while te humid air is being drawn out.

Furnaces only humidify IF they have a humidiifier installed. That was what was installed in your last house. That was the duct that you said was "recirculating" your cold air.

Actually, what it was doing was adding moisture to the "recirculated" air. Those types of humidifiers have a lever that opens and closes the duct. In summer, the duct should have been closed otherwise you were doing what was known as "short cycleing" the air and were deriviing no benefiit frm the cold air that was sent back into the return. If the humidistat was not turned to its lowest setting in summer you could also have been humdifying the cool air. Not good as humid air feels warmer than dry air so you would have to set the thermostat lower to compensate.

[Im Lon 2]

Originally posted by capncapo
Lonnie,

Needless to say, the more air you can pull from the fish room, the better. One thing to consider is that IF your fish room is closed off from the rest of the basement yoou will need to add a vent to the room so that fresh, dry air can enter the room while te humid air is being drawn out.

Already planned on the vent to pull the air out..

So you don't think it will hurt putting in a pipe pulling only from the Fish room?

Originally posted by capncapo
Furnaces only humidify IF they have a humidiifier installed. That was what was installed in your last house. That was the duct that you said was "recirculating" your cold air.

Wow you remember me telling you that was how my old house was setup! That was month ago... Good memory!! I don't have that on this house.

Originally posted by capncapo
Actually, what it was doing was adding moisture to the "recirculated" air. Those types of humidifiers have a lever that opens and closes the duct. In summer, the duct should have been closed otherwise you were doing what was known as "short cycleing" the air and were deriviing no benefiit frm the cold air that was sent back into the return. If the humidistat was not turned to its lowest setting in summer you could also have been humdifying the cool air. Not good as humid air feels warmer than dry air so you would have to set the thermostat lower to compensate.

I think it had a setting on it saying for winter and another for summer but I really don't remember.. But I do know that I only turned it on during the Winter when the Heater was on.

[capncapo]

Won't hurt a thing. Just make sure you're not sucking raw salt spray into the system.

[capncapo]

Lonnie,

Did this mod to Nanooks and Georges (Griss) and told Chadscamaro how to do it. Made a world of difference to Daves and Chads place. Tey went from water dripping off of supply ruuns to just a small biit of sweat. We're still working on Georges because he's got SO much water in his system but if you ask any of them, no one will say that it has harmed a thing.

[Im Lon 2]

:thumbsup: That works for me.. I like that Idea better than an exchange vent for pushing the air out side and fresh air back in..

Will it pull the humidity out of the air when the heater is on?

[capncapo]

It depends on the type of furnace that you have. If it's a standard 80% efficient unit then yes some of the humidity will go up the flue as steam but better yet it will also help to humiidify your house without having to buy a humidifier.

An added benefit to that is that humid air "feels" warmer than dry air and should allow you to set your thermostat a little lower and still achieve the same "comfort" level. With the projected fuel costs for this winter, that alone could possibly save you some serious money. Another plus is that a reduced thermostat setting will also effect the evaporation rate of your tank water. By placing the vent for incoming air as low to the floor as possiible, you will be drawing the coolest, least humid air into the fish room which could also help with potential water temperature problems.

If you have a 90% efficient unit, it may or may not help depending on what your furnace requiirements are. That would be a case by case type of thing.

[MayoBoy]

Depending on the lights you'll be using, you might think about a cover for the sump. That would cut the evaporation by magnitudes.