EMERGENCY- New tank set-up- Fish might die

[tgeppes]

New tank. 29 gal. filter hang on 500 gph. heater. have been for the past 4 days trying to get the tank cycled with 3 damsels. Today just a few hours ago two of the bright blue damsels turned dark grey. Tested Ph and Nitrie both came up in the green. Just to be safe i did a 25% water change. Still the two blue fish look really bad. The other damsel seems to be doing fine? Any suggestions?
~tyler

[Q-ball]

Any suggestions?

Yes, get the damsels out & return them to the LFS. You may even get credit for them. Please tell us more about your tank. Is there any liverock? Substrate ie: sand, crushed coral, etc? By putting a good amount of liverock (.5 to 1 lb per gallon) in the tank first, you will cycle the tank simply with the liverock. There's no need to torture fish (even damsels) with the poisonous levels of ammonia, nitrite & nitrate that we see in these tanks during the cycle. Please don't take this as a flame, as it appears that you weren't aware of this information. But, for the fishes' sake, I recommend returning them. With a good amount of liverock in the tank you should see the tank completely cycle in as little as 2 weeks, or maybe as long as 4-6 weeks. There is no set rule to how long it takes. HTH & good luck!

Q!!!

[slimytadpole]

First of all, how long has the tank been up before you added the damsels?
Secondly, cycling with fish is generally frowned upon here. You should cycle the tank before adding the fish. Even damsels.
Third, one damsel per tank. They fight. That's their nature. If you have any live rocks, you will find that they are nigh impossible to catch unless they are sick or dying.
Lastly, what were the numbers, exactly, for the Nitrates and Ph. green doesn't mean anything because different tests use different colors. Ph should be in the 8.2-8.4 range, and nitrates should be undetectable (though Nitrates <= 40ppm shouldn't kill damsels).

Edit: Also, What is your SG and temperature? SG shoudl be around 1.021-1.026, and temp should be about 80-85 degrees. Roughly.

[tgeppes]

fish are on the way back to the fishstore... sorry about the insult about cycling with the damsels. i was told the wrong thing by a girl at the fish store and they will hear it from me! ok. so now i have a fish tank with no fish. please advise what i should now? what is the next step?

[slimytadpole]

Well to give you advice, we'll need to know exactly what shape the tank is in. Specifically:
1) equipment: exact brands and models.
2) Do you have live rock? How much?
3) What kind of subtrate are you using? Sand? Crushed coral? How deep is it?
4) What kind of lights do you have
5) What is your SG? Ph? Nitrates? Ammonia? Temperature?
6) How long has the tank been set up?

In all likelyhood, the tank is still cycling, in which case we would expect the numbers to be a bit screwy, and the tank to be uninhabitable. A couple weeks should remedy that. But we'll need to know the above to really advise further.

[OscarBeast]

It is a matter of ethics.

The only ethical to cycle a tank is with a constant ammonia drip.

A lot of these bozos that hate people for cycling with fish have no problems with killing the millions of wonderful organisms found in live rock. They don't realize that they are killing far more creatures by cycling with LR.

This is no different IMHO.

[tgeppes]

ok i will try to answer some of your questions.
I was trying (am) to set up a fish only tank but i am liking the idea more and more of having live rock
29 gal tank
(2) whisper 30-60 filters, red (fake) sank 2 inches, instant ocean salt, no live rock, no live sand, SG 1.024, Ph 8.24, Temp 82, Nitrites ZERO, standard lights, tank been running for about a week. forgive me if i have done something wrong but all my actions previously have been at the direction of my local pet store. i have just found your site and loving the info.

ALSO. i know i do not have any live rock and now that hte fish are back at the store i am really thinking about it. I LOVE the idea of tonga rock. I think it looks really good but i do not want more than 25-30lbs (finally i want to have a single lionfish setup with maybe liverock). I live in clemson SC so to get me some uncured live rock it too expensive for the amount i need and want. Does anyone know of a good place in ATLANTA that sells Tonga ROCK and knows what they are talking about. Thanks so much for your time thus far.
~tyler

[rhodes]

It's ok, there is a learning curve associated with this hobby. But in saying that there are ways of limiting the loss of life! Start reading all the info you can. "HERE"you can learn about the hobby it's a good start. Spend some time learning what the "cycle" is, not just the term and the science behind "cycling' Perhaps you already know, but there is time. No need to rush, because if you do rush the natural progression you will spend more time fighting the hobby than enjoying the hobby.

[Skipper]

A lot of these bozos that hate people for cycling with fish OscarBeast: please choose your words wisely in the future. I understand your point, but statements such as above tend to provoke bickering and derision. Thanks in advance for being cool. :D

[ic_spotz]

We put a pair of small <1" yellowtail damsels in our 29G FOWLR. The tank had cycled and was stable. On lasted about a week and the other looked really sick...just as you described. He never lost appetite or acted sluggish. In the past couple of weeks we added a few more rocks and he staked his territory behind a big rock. His color has slowly returned and he is looking much better. I checked all the forums I read for some type of disease but whatever it is/was he's getting over it. It may have been stress... He seems much better now. :D

[chipmunk]

The only ethical to cycle a tank is with a constant ammonia drip.

What about tossing in a pinch of fish food everyday, would you consider that ethical?

[OscarBeast]

Skipper
Sorry if it sounded harsh or like a personal attack; I didn't intend the comment to be directed at anyone.

What about tossing in a pinch of fish food everyday, would you consider that ethical?

Yea.... Any way to cycle your tank without living creatures would be better. Though fish food would probably be a lot slower and a much more messy. Anyway it doesn't really matter what I think.

[tgeppes]

. i know i do not have any live rock and now that hte fish are back at the store i am really thinking about it. I LOVE the idea of tonga rock. I think it looks really good but i do not want more than 25-30lbs (finally i want to have a single lionfish setup with maybe liverock). I live in clemson SC so to get me some uncured live rock it too expensive for the amount i need and want. Does anyone know of a good place in ATLANTA that sells Tonga ROCK and knows what they are talking about. Thanks so much for your time thus far.
~tyler

[chipmunk]

Anyway it doesn't really matter what I think.
Sure it does.

[slimytadpole]

I'm not familiar with the whisper filters, and I notice a lack of powerheads. Does the Whisper filter allow for oxygen exchange? I'm thinking there might be an issue with lack of oxygen.