Top Offs.

[dmorel]

I have been looking at all the DIY top off systems out there.
The best thing for me is going to be using a float that is wired to an outlet of some sort to power a pump to fill. I found one set of plans, but as soon as I see soldering iron, I have to move on :)
That's just not my thing. The "drip" method seems to work so so for me, but I am constantly having to futz with it to keep my level more or less the same.

I tried to make that gravity feed system using a carboy and tubing, but I had no luck, I presume I couldn't get a strong enough siphon due to the restriction I had on placement of the carboy. It might not have been high enough, but there is nothing I can do about that. (Tank in bedroom + Wife == no hanging it from the ceiling).

So I guess what I am asking is does anyone have a schematic for a serious layman or even better a place where I can buy a pre-built float system?

-dm

[ToddsReef]

Dave,
I'm not familiar with float valves but you can get a refurbished IV pump for around $80 on ebay (I know that is a bad word on this board but it's cheap nonetheless). Another idea is a NURCE. I made a nurse for my nano and I think it is AWESOME! Only consideration with this is that your holding tank needs to be higher than the level of the water in your sump. I made mine for about $45 and it has about 3 gallon capacity. You would obviously want something a little bigger but the cost of the extra acrylic doesn't increase the cost much. You could also use a big glass jug or something (other than acrylic) and a two hole stopper and get away for significantly less $. Let me know if you want more details on the NURCE, I have some websites on my home computer that I could post when I get there if you are interested.
Todd

[dmorel]

Todd,
I hear you about ebay.
I am currently looking at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2005536636

Which has a float and a pump.
It looks rough, and maybe loud, but I don't know, would probably do fine.

The Nurce design is more or less what I tried to do with the carboy (That's the fancy word for a big glass jug I am told).
I got it from the local home brew supply store with an airtight top that I ran two lengths of tubing into. One goes down to almost the bottom of the jug, the other just inside the jug above the water level.
The idea is you then blow into this tube to get a siphon started and then place the end of it at the water level you want. When the water level is reached, no air can enter the tube anymore, so the siphon breaks. When the water level drops, the siphon resumes...

I was unable to get the siphon to hold at all. I assumed it was because of the layout, but maybe I was letting air into the rig where the airline tube was going in. I used some aquarium sealant (left over from the very successful sump/refugium project)
to seal, but maybe I missed something.

I would love to look at whatever sites you have bookmarked, thanks for the offer.

-david

[ToddsReef]

Dave,
Here are some links:
http://www.aqualan.to/
http://agualan.com/FileDownloads/NURCE_instructions.pdf
(second one is the helpful one)

If you like the concept of the NURCE I would be glad to try to help you figure out why it isn't working.

This is how I think it works: As the siphon fills the sump it covers the air-intake tube and once this happens the pressure in the container decreases (because it can't replace the water with air), once the pressure in the container gets low enough it will equal the siphoning force and everything will just stop. Once the water evaporates below the air-intake tube air is allowed into the container which raises the pressure in the container back to atmospheric pressure (decreases the pull on the water in the siphon tube towards the container) and the water that is still in the siphon tube falls toward the tank (i.e. the siphon force is once again greater than the force with which the low pressure in the holding container is acting on the water) and the siphon continues (note: the siphon was never really "broken"). Now the siphon will continue until the air-intake is covered with water and the whole process starts again.

Does this go along with the way that others think it works?

So some of the first things that come to mind in your situation are as follows:

1. If your system weren't air-tight it shouldn't inhibit you from starting a siphon, it should only inhibit the NURCE from automatically stopping the siphon (as the pressure in the container would stay at atmospheric pressure).

2. The most likely thing I can think of that would cause you to not be able to start or keep a siphon would be that the level of water in the carboy isn't higher than the level of water in your sump.

3. I would try to start the siphon by sucking on the water tube rather than blowing into the air-tube (it is fresh water in the container right? I wouldn't do it with kalk) as the latter requires a lot more lung capacity (unless the volume of air in the tube is equal to that of the volume above the water in the carboy).

Let me know if you want more information and forgive me if this reply either inaccurate or to damn long!

Have a good one,
Todd

[dmorel]

Thanks,
I read the setup info on their site.
The more I think about the more I believe the problem I a had must have been a lack of airtightness (is that a word?).

I will have to try again some evening this week and see how I do.

The concept of the nurce is exactly the same as the design I was using, so clearly it is sound.
The water level of the carboy is well above that of the sump, in fact the bottom of the carboy is level with the bottom of the tank, though it is off to the side, so I don't think this is the issue.


On another completely unrelated topic, how do you like that aqua-controller that you have?

I have a few things on my wish list right now including a calcium reactor and a dimmer for the vho's so I can have some better sunrise-sunset action then I do now. My wavemaker also seems to be fritzing out a bit, so I am wondering if the controller would be a logical addition, that way I could run all this stuff from one central place.
My understanding is that it can control the calcium reactor in some way, do you use the controller to do so?

Sorry to be picking your brain about so many things, I am kind of in build mode on the tank right now. I am really interested in getting it running without so much manual interventation on my end.
That was fun the first few months, but now I really would rather look at it then work on it, if you know what I mean.

You thought your post was long :)

-david

[ToddsReef]

Dave,
I'm happy with the aquacontroller. While I definitely think that it is a toy for people who like gadgets rather than a wise investment, I would definitely buy it again.

A couple of things though, I don't think (in fact I am pretty sure) that you can't use the aquacontroller to dim bulbs other than something like an incandescent bulb for a moon.

As far as the reactor, you could use the aquacontroller to shut off the CO2 if the pH gets to low but I don't use it for that. You could also use it to turn of the reactor for certain times during the day/night cycle, I don't use it for that either. The one thing that I do find helpful with it in regard to the reactor is that if the CO2 went out of wack and the pH dropped the aquacontroller would page me with the tank parameters that are out of range.

It is also helpful as a multi-unit temperature controller. I have it set to run my heater, chiller, soon to be fans, and also to turn off the lights (first pc's, then halides, then vho's) at progressively higher water temperatures so that I don't fry the tank if the chiller bights the dust.

For a wavemaker I do not use it, as the relay in the X10's click and the constant clicking made me want to put a gun to my head.

Have a good one.
Todd

[Chucker]

FWIW, I got a custom topoff from Tim Marks, aka Timbo on this board. He and Justin Lawyer aka bishop have a small biz that does some custom acrylic work. You can check out their site at www.ecotechmarine.com

Price was quite reasonable, and the workmanship is top-notch. I still have to take a few pics for them to use on the site, so if I get motivated any time soon, I'll share them with the rest of you ;)

[dmorel]

Originally posted by ToddsReef
Dave,
I'm happy with the aquacontroller. While I definitely think that it is a toy for people who like gadgets rather than a wise investment, I would definitely buy it again.

Hmmm, I think I fit that description :)


A couple of things though, I don't think (in fact I am pretty sure) that you can't use the aquacontroller to dim bulbs other than something like an incandescent bulb for a moon.


Ah, that rings a bell now... Well a moon phase sure couldn't hurt. So I would still need to add the blueline dimmer for the icecap to the list.


As far as the reactor, you could use the aquacontroller to shut off the CO2 if the pH gets to low but I don't use it for that. You could also use it to turn of the reactor for certain times during the day/night cycle, I don't use it for that either. The one thing that I do find helpful with it in regard to the reactor is that if the CO2 went out of wack and the pH dropped the aquacontroller would page me with the tank parameters that are out of range.


Hmmmm, is there a reason that you don't use the controller to shut it off and/or on?
Or do you find that you have the best luck using the reactor on 24/7 (I am presuming that is what you do).

I can see the page thing being good, or bad...
Nothing worse then getting a page saying there is something wrong at a time when you can do nothing about it.


It is also helpful as a multi-unit temperature controller. I have it set to run my heater, chiller, soon to be fans, and also to turn off the lights (first pc's, then halides, then vho's) at progressively higher water temperatures so that I don't fry the tank if the chiller bights the dust.


I hear that. This does sound useful, and if memory serves you can write scripts to define all of that. Just my kind of thing :)

I am thinking ebay for a chiller soon, the MH's are raising the tank water a few degrees more then I thought they were. Today is day one of the fan cooling test.
Interesting thread about temp going on the reefkeepers mailing list right now I might add...


For a wavemaker I do not use it, as the relay in the X10's click and the constant clicking made me want to put a gun to my head.


Gotcha. This would be a problem for me as well, this tank is in my bedroom, it is already too loud for me.


Have a good one.
Todd

You too, thanks for all the thoughts today. I don't know if anyone else with get anything out of this thread but it has been good for me :)

-david

[ToddsReef]

I don't use it to turn off the CO2 because I don't think it is necessary, if the power to the tank goes out the solenoid will shut it off and it will beep me so I just didn't hook an X10 to it. I may do it when I move if I remember. Call me if you can't get that NURCE working.
Todd

[dmorel]

OK,
so I took the afternoon off from work and went over to CF on the way home (so it's like 15 minutes the other direction, but you know...).

Tom had some super old spectrapure top off system there, supposed to be used with an ro/di unit (which is definately in my future) but seems to be working as advertised with my 5 gal bucket of makeup water.

So this problem is now as put to bed as it is going to get until the tank has a water line plumbed to it.

Next Up: Calcium Reactor!
I think a fan is enough to keep the tank cool, so I can skip a chiller for now, but I may also pick up an aquacontroller.

I am close to getting this tank running with less intervention from me, which can only be a good thing :)

-david

[ToddsReef]

I don't know much about the other reactors but I love my LifeReef, I would give up my Aquacontroller in a heartbeat for the reactor.
Todd

[dmorel]

I am hoping to score some info from playfair about geo's reactors, he mentioned them in another thread.
Aren't you going to be seeing him tonight?
If you do, ask him to give me a shout (where shout=some form of electronic communication).
A reactor is definately my next choice, calc today was 350 :(

If I don't buy a no name brand, I will probably go with the Korallin, that seems to be an awfully nice unit.
First I will wait and see what dave says about geo's unit, though I presume it will be favorable, he seems to really like it.

[ACarlsson]

I have used a food grade bucket with a spigot in the bottom which came with the bucket. I bought it when I used to make homemade beer. I think they are still available. I then ran a plastic line from the spigot to a float valve. The whole system is very low tech and foolproof. The bucket holds about five gallons. Larry

[ReeferMac]

If you're looking to do it all on the cheap (as a fellow home owner, you know where I'm coming from), you'd kill both birds with a dosing pump and Kalk reactor. I use a Neilsen style system I built for under 10 bucks (not counting pump). You could try a dosing pump like I have, but for the bedroom I'm guessing it would be a little loud. The Litermeter's tho are pretty quiet. My Calcium's usually around 600ppm with an alk of 10-12 DKH.. and it didn't cost me hundreds of dollars (got the pump from Dave for next to nothing, who got it from Steve for about the same).

I agree that I think Calcium reactors provide a better supplement (more rounded, since it dissolves everything the corals use, not just the Ca and Alk components), but I've had pretty good luck with Kalkwasser, and if you do regular water changes, the other nutrients aren't a concern.

- Mac