Flounder reef compatability?

[nateair]

Check out what I just picked up from my LFS. He is sooo cool. The people at the fish store said he was fully reef compatable so I couldn't resist. You have to look closely because he a sneaky guy! What's interesting is that he seems to chase some of my fish so I'm beginning to think he is hungry. I thought he was a sandsifter. Any comments?
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/101810P9080215.gif

[ClownFreak316]

Wow! A flounder in a reef tank! That is so cool. Don't worry about your fish. He is just curious. Flounders are herbaviors. The picture is too small and I can't really see much. They also are sand sifters so I wouldn't worry about too much. Did they have any bigger ones? You should try a school of them!

[nateair]

Here is a night pic of my reef tank.http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/101810P9080204.gif

[ClownFreak316]

What is that a 75 gallon? Plenty of room. You need more flounders. You should start breeding them. I was thinking of getting a couple for my nano cube. Their really rare too. You must have paid a fortune for them. Keep up the good work.

[nateair]

Thanks! I like him a lot, can you see him in this photo!!!!!! He is the coolest for a reef tank!


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/101810P9080205.JPG

[masterswimmer]

I see him totally clearly. He's the red disk right? lol J/K

Actually I'm setting up a 16 nano and I want to put a dwarf flounder and a Fu Manchu Lionfish in it. Just a little sps on the rear vertical wall.

Good luck. I think they are so cool. What species is yours? I'll be looking to pick up a Peacock Flounder.

Russ

[NwG]

Flounders can be very hard to keep.... They will eat anything they can get there mouth around... Just look at there teeth, not for veggies..

This is from Bob Fenner at WWM...

<flounders are challenging to keep and need species specific tanks. If you are prepared to leave out most or all other fishes... proceed my friend. Many reasons not the least of which is common community fishes like angels picking sores on the poor flounders from above!>


They need very large open sand areas and can cause major problems in a sandbed....

Anyway, I think they are pretty cool... they can change colors pretty fast!!!
Nate D

[Dazed And Confused]

Flounder are NOT herbivores. They've developed their color adaptatations and sand burying techniques to help them ambush small fish, shrimps, etc. They are a predator fish and will eat anything they can catch and fit into their mouths. They're equipped with long sharp teeth to catch and hold their victims, so once a fish has been caught there's no chance of recovery even if they manage to escape. He may be reef compatible since they don't eat corals, but they're not FISH compatible. At any rate, they're a cool and interesting fish. Good luck.

[masterswimmer]

I would think it is compatible with a Fu Manchu Lionfish! Those V spines aren't good for too many digestive systems.

Russ

[sinkingbeach]

Originally posted by Dazed And Confused
Flounder are NOT herbivores.

I second that, we use minnows and squid as bait to catch these in the back bays during the summer months. They also get pretty big although I'm uncertain if the same species I catch and eat you have swimming around in your tank.:D

[Dazed And Confused]

On a different note, they are some of the best tasting fish I've ever eaten. They're tough to filet until you get the hang of it but well worth the effort. When I eat trout, redfish or flounder, I don't have to apologize to my tank inhabitants for eating their buddies since I just took out one of their natural predators.
I assume you're planning to buy feeder fish for this guy since that's what he'll want?

[MCary]

I spent some time in Alaska. Just in case you need to know how to tell a halibut from a flounder, this is the best method. When you get them to the boat, reach in their mouth and pull them aboard. If you still have your fingers its a flounder.

[ClownFreak316]

Nateair, I would strongly disagree with Dazed and Confused. Just read his username. That alone is enough to prove something. They are herbaviors. Just feed him some carrot flakes or formula 1. Carrot flakes have a lot of vitamin A which is good for seeing when they sift the sand. A good freshwater dip always encourages an appetite. You might want to increase the salinity of the fresh water as well. Let me know what happens?

[xp964]

ClownFreak, I bred and raised two species of flounder for many years. I did my thesis work on them for my masters degree. They are most definitely PREDATORS. They are lay-wait-predators. They hide under the sand or with their camouflage, and snap at any potential prey that comes by. Depending on what species it is, they may eat worms, fish, or as said above "anything they can fit their mouths around". Some have tiny mouths (like winter flounder) and some have big mouths (like summer flounder or halibut). But they are all predators.
Sorry if that sounds peevish, sometimes I lecture...;)

[sjm817]

I've caught many of them. I didn't use carrots for bait. Bloodworms and Squid hooked them.

[Dazed And Confused]

And being a clown and a freak is better? Do a little research before you spout off about what you THINK a fish eats. No saltwater flounder is a veggie eater - they are PREDATORS that live off of live prey. Their camoflage system is used to hide from prey fish and ambush them. Don't know that you need to hide very well to ambush seaweed. All you need to do is take a look at their teeth to figure out what they eat. Can't see how a fish with a mouth that works sideways could be a good sand sifter, either. How are they supposed to get a good scoop of gravel? Spend a minute and use the "search" function at the top of the page. Not a single mention of being a herbivore other than yours. All others acknowledge them being a predator and danger to any crustacean and fish in your tank.
Nateair, I'd recommend you spend some time researching fish before you buy them. I agree, flounders are cool, but after you lose a few of your smaller tank inhabitants, you may not feel the same way about them. At any rate, I hope it works out for you.

[nateair]

Thanks for the info clown freak, I didnt have any carrots so i threw some cucumbers in the tank, he didnt go for them at first but when i jiggled the pieces in front of him for a sec he ate them up real quick. My blue tang and my flounder seem to play a lot together, they are always chasing each other around. Its like having dori and nemo, except my nemo is a way cooler fish. I'll try the carrot thing tonight. Thanks!!!

[nateair]

you keep saying to look at his teeth but he just wont open his mouth wide enough. i tried with my fingers but he kept swimming away. have i told you how cool this fish is in a reef tank???

[sinkingbeach]

HABITAT AND BIOLOGY: The southern flounder generally prefers muddy bottoms throughout most of the estuary, but it can occur in channel and bay mouths and also frequents areas around piers, pilings, and rock jetties. Migrations to offshore spawning grounds begin in late fall at the onset of cold weather, and spawning is completed during winter months. This species is the prefect predator, lying in total camouflage on the bottom until unsuspecting prey wander within reach and are capture with lightning quick movements. Foods of this species include shrimp and fishes.

http://www.outdooralabama.com/fishing/freshwater/fish/flounder/

Read it yourself!!!

[sinkingbeach]

http://www.gma.org/fogm/Paralichthys_dentatus.htm

Then read this!!!

[jgoodrich71]

With the size that he is I would say there is a possibility that it may not be a flounder at all. It could be a "hog choaker". Either way they are carnivorous.

[ClownFreak316]

You go Nateair! My flounder would eat cucumbers whole. Granted he was 3 1/2 feel long, but he loved them. I think it is sooo cool that you have taken the responsibility of taking care of matters in your own hands and not listening to knuckleheads like "Dazed and Confused". Flounders do eat carrot flakes. "It's Science". I don't mind being lectured, as long as the speaker is accurate. Hey Natair, if you have time, post some pictures of your flounder eating.

[nateair]

Im at work right now so ill show you some pics of the carrott feeding tonight. Sinkingbeach, i dont know how to read english, can you read it for me? Besides all those flounder studies are not based out of my fish tank, and in my fish tank we have only herbavores, right down to the shrimp and flounder.

[Dazed And Confused]

Freak, looks like you're the only one giving veggie advice. Since the ocean is full of carrots and cucumbers, it's easy to see why that would make sense to feed those to a flounder. I've caught and seen a lot of flounders but never anything close to 3 1/2 feet long. Sounds more like a halibut, but since you're an expert, I'll take your word for it. I went by my local LFS at lunch and he laughed when I suggested that flounder are herbivores. He's had several and always has to keep them in a species specific tank to protect his other fish. By the way, how can he be a sand sifter whenhis eyes look directly upward - he can't even look at the bottom where you claim he's sifting sand from.
Newly registered user with 4 posts, all in this topic. Why do I think you're just here to stir up trouble???

[Dazed And Confused]

By the way, Nateair, the only way a flounder is a purely herbivore is if you name all the small fish and shrimp in your tank "Herb". You're getting bad advice and chosing to follow it since you've already bought the fish and think it's cool. Good luck - I think you're going to find that fish very expensive to feed.

[ClownFreak316]

Stir up trouble? I don't stir up anything, that's the job of the flounder when he cleans the sand. I have been in the hobby for 8 years and havea ton of knowledge of flounders. How much experience with breeding and maintaining flounder aquariums have you had? You have 5 years of freshwater experience. And what does your local fish store know? That's fine. I would suggest you try feeding your fish carrot flakes and let everybody know how right I was when you rudely accused me of being a liar with no knowledge.

[nateair]

dont worry ill name the carrots i put in there tonight herb. when i get home ill take some day pics when my hallides are on. you can let me know if you think any of my fish are in danger, i usually dont play by the rules, but i also usually end up right. i listened to the majority before and they said a psuedo doesnt hurt anybody, tell my shrimp that, they have a better chance with my herb eating flounder. the psuedo is now all alone in my sump.

[MCary]

So between rounds I thought I'd entertain with some trivia. Did you know that a flounder when its larval and young juvenlie has eyes on each side of its head and swims upright. As it gets older one eye migrates to the other side of the head and it becomes a flatfish? Did you know that?

DING! On with the fight.

Mike

[gtrestoration]

http://www.sheddaquarium.org/sea/fact_sheets.cfm?id=74

http://www.aqua.org/animals_summerflounder.html

Predators

Many animals, especially humans, eat lobsters. After humans, cod are probably the lobster's principal enemy, followed by other bottom dwelling fishes, such as flounder, sculpins, wolffish, eels, rock gunnels, crabs, and seals. Even raccoons have been known to raid coastal lobster pounds at low tide.
from...
http://octopus.gma.org/lobsters/society.html

I think somebody has this confused, we're trying to say what the flounder eats, not what to eat with it.
www.bassonhook.com/fishforfood/flounderrecipes.html

:D
SteveU

[nateair]

Mcary, i actually did know that about a flounder. Grestoration, isn't that why we have fish tanks? To raise them to a size we can eat them? Thats what i do it for, the corals are just decorations, i dont care if they live or die, its just there for a happier fish, which then makes a happier belly for me.

[gtrestoration]

Nothing wrong at all to raise food.










But I know better and if your'e trying to troll... good luck.

[nateair]

I've heard that sharks are good when prepared properly, I bet I can turn one of those into an herbavor too.

[gtrestoration]

http://www.google.com/images/logo_sm.gif SAYS...

Did you mean: herbivore

It's beginning to show. :)

SteveU

[jayke]

Flounders are most definitely carnivorous, no doubt. They'll take a bite out of most things you dangle in front of them due to their ambush techniques and instincts. I've always used live bait to catch them (minnows) but I know some people who have caught them on lures. I included a link for aquarium flounder from Fosters and Smith. Read the care part of it. As for reef safe, they would not likely eat your corals, but you need to be cautious with the fact that they do get large and they do burrow. This may cause problems with them undermining your rock work.

Flounder (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=354)

[nateair]

Thanks for the link! but to quote the site "The diet should consist of chopped marine meats." It says should, but in this case its been trained to be a herbivore(thanks for the spell check g).

[RobbyG]

Flounders eat other fish period!, years ago we tried one in a tank and it was like a scene from "ALIEN" one by one the fish started to go missing. Just hope he doesnt have any other valuable fish in that Tank or the Flounder will be eating $100 meals daily.

[nateair]

I have a sand sifting goby, purple fire fish, 2 percs, 2 tomatoe, 1 black and white, 1 blue tang, 1 yellow tang, 1 mandarin goby, a psuedo in the sump. and my wonderful flounder. founders dont eat fish, my fish play with the flounder. Its fun to watch. Silly robby, flounders are for pros.

[xp964]

Nateair, I don't want to get into a fight with you, I just think you should give a little consideration to what myself and others are saying. We just want you to be aware that as your flounder gets bigger (and it may not, some are very small), it may pose a threat to your other fish. Also, you probably want to supplement the veggies with some kind of meat-based protein. Flounder will eat anything that looks like prey, including wiggling cukes and carrots. It can probably survive on that, but it needs fat and protein to really thrive.
On the other hand, it may be beneficial and make some tasty meals of whatever bristle worms are in your tank. None of us can really say whether the flounder will be problematic or not without knowing what species it is. So it may be fine, or it may not, just be aware and be cautious.
They are cute, though, aren't they? I'd love to see more pics. Keep us updated on how it goes!

[nateair]

It is the peacock flounder, you can find it on liveaquaria. I know for sure know that he is a herbivore, I went home at lunch and cut a cucumber in the shape of a fish and he wouldn't touch it. As soon as i put some chunks of cucumber in there he went right for it. Ill try feeding him an apple, i know i feel fat and full after eating one of those, so that can be his fat intake.

[JxMetal]

You cut it into the shape of a fish? That's amazing, I'd cut my finger off! Can I see a picture of it?

[nateair]

wasnt anything too special, after it didnt work i threw it away but im sure if you want to see it that bad i could go home and do it again tonight.

[xp964]

Okay, so you don't believe me. If a CSU told you that peacock flounders were carnivores would you believe them?
http://www.csulb.edu/depts/biology/marine/species/Peacock_Flounder.html_f/Peacock_Flounder.html

How about the Shedd Aquarium?
http://www.sheddaquarium.org/sea/fact_sheets.cfm?id=74

It's just used to eating cukes, but that doesn't make it an herbivore. If it's not eating some kind of meat (snails, shrimp, fish, etc...), it's not going to do well, the same as if you fed your cat nothing but veggies. But it's probably eating your bristle worms and other such stuff, so I can see you're never going to be convinced.
Good luck! (and I really do mean that, I'm not trying to be sarcastic):)

[ClownFreak316]

Woooooahh. Do not use apples! They can be deadly. I feed one to one of my flounders and he went into spasms fast. He seemed fine. The next morning I woke up and he was dead. I decided I would cut him open when I got home from work and you wont believe what was inside him. An earth worm. Seriously. They are poisonous for humans and more deadly for fish. Be carefull.

[nateair]

If it really was a carnivore it would have gone after the fish shaped cucumber. or maybe he should eat the clam on the bottom in the sand that is quite happy. he likes his veggies.

[nateair]

An apple will be fine. XP says he needs his fats! I'm sure he can use the apple. He will love it.

[gtrestoration]

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/3285/beatingdeadhorse6gu.gif

[ClownFreak316]

Dude, I'm telling you, don't be ignorant. You have be one of the most unintelligent individuals to feed a flounder an apple. Seriously. Whatever, kill your fish. Flounder Police. XP? He doesn't fats. There is so much in the sand. Uhhh. You people!

[Dazed And Confused]

Guys, I'm sorry. I guess I was wrong. I went by my LFS at noon and he dropped a watermelon in a tank full of triggers. I had no idea that triggers would eat watermelon, but he even had them trained to spit the seeds out of the tank so he didn't have to clean it up. He told me to come by tomorrow when he'll be feeding chili dogs and cheeseburgers to the puffers. He said they sulk around the tank after the chili dogs until he pours a Coke in the tank for 'em to wash it down with. He only gives them chili dogs once in a while because they make such a mess with the Rolaids and Tums. I heard that tangs like to chew tobacco and smoke cigarettes, but I won't believe that until I see it for myself.
If I can get my camera working right, I'll send a pic of my percs wearing their big shoes and red ball noses. What a couple of clowns!

[nateair]

Dazed and Confused that is a great idea! My flounder could get its fat and proteins from a hot dog! I'll just cut it in the shape of a cucumber so that he will eat it. I'll let you know how it goes tonight.

[ClownFreak316]

Ok. That was funny. However I don't really think Coke is good for the pufferfish. Pufferfish have spines and the coke could cause them to open due to the temperature fluctuation. Like I said earlier, your LFS are not very intelligent. These people are starting to get a little weird on me. One more thing, Nateair do not be a murder with that apple. Please. I'm begging you.

[scottfarcuz]

Anyone else get the feeling that 2 users in this thread are actually the same person?

[Detritivore]

i do :)

[ClownFreak316]

Who?

[Dazed And Confused]

Had my chain yanked pretty good before I figured out what was up. If not the same person, gotta be a couple of guys having a good time. Man, I gotta learn to lighten up.

[nateair]

i think they are referring to the only two people on this thread that have experience in raising flounders. I still disagree on the apple thing (ill just check for worms). It sounds to me like dazed and confused is starting to get an idea, although i too disagree with the soda thing, too much acid.

[ClownFreak316]

This forum has come to an end. Come back next time, you hear?

[nateair]

The truth:
Yes I do have a reef tank and yes I am keeping a peacock flounder in it. No the flounder is not an herbivore. I feed it ghost shrimp. The flounder only being about 3 inches, it does not bother my cleaner shrimp or my clam or anything else in the tank. I would not recommend anybody to put a flounder in a reef tank, you are lucky if it doesn’t attack everything. The only thing it has attacked is my hermit crabs, but that’s just funny. Yes my friend Joe and I were playing with you guys, I’m glad some of you were able to take it so well. Dazed and Confused good job on figuring it out. The things we said before we were very sarcastic and would not do them(for the most part), we just thought it would be funny to tell people I have a flounder in a thriving reef tank. I am a little out there and do some strange things so again, I don’t recommend someone doing this in their tank. Thanks for playing!

[Dazed And Confused]

You really had me going there for awhile. I think the post about cutting the cucumber into the shape of a fish was what really got me to thinking. Sorry I took such a harsh note with both of you. I'm a helluva long way from being any kind of expert on flounder or reef aquaria, but I kinda felt like somebody was pushing some bad advice off on a gullible newbie. After I read back thru what I just participated in, I can see where you guys must have been laughing your tails off. I gotta hand it to you, you really got me on that one.
Paybacks are a b**** ;D

[scottfarcuz]

Nothing wrong with some humor but I think an ongoing list of posts filled with misinformation in a newbie section is bad form. What happens if a newbie actually decides to do some research before adding one of these to a tank and doesn't read to page 3 of this thread?

There is a section of RC for off topic discussion ,sarcasm .etc. called The Lounge (http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=6)

Honestly I don't think the mods will find this thread all that funny....

[nateair]

they will get over it, read the disclaimer. And yes there was a point where tears were streaming down our face because we were laughing so hard. If someone decides to add cucumbers or carrots to their tank it wont hurt anything, but if they actually believe it they don't belong in the hobby.

[nateair]

I mean really...cutting a cucumber in the shape of a fish to see if the fish is an herbivore or a carnivore...I can't believe I had any credibilty past that point.

[xp964]

No, Dazed and I are not the same person!:p
I'm new to reefing, but not to raising flounder. Commercial aquaculture is a whole different ball of wax, and I come here for tips on stuff I've never encountered before, like bristle worms and mushroom corals.
The fish-shaped cuke WAS pretty funny, looking back, but Scott's right, this isn't the place...have a heart guys, for people coming here for helpful information.
And here I was, thinking I could finally help someone here...:(

[nateair]

bristle worms are good for your tank, if you want to get rid of them a psuedo or a flounder will take care of that, warning both of those also like shrimp, the psuedo will kill no matter what size though. Mushroom corals will come out in full bloom as long as you keep a close watch on your PH levels. if you want them to muliple, rip an established one off and place it somewhere else. the remnants from where it was will form a new mushroom and the old mushroom will attatch itself to the new spot. How's that for help....

[mmd]

dazed and confused....very funny....and correct
clown freak i do not doubt your flounder eats veggies, does not make it right however...if i lock you in a box and only feed you roaches after a few days you will eat roaches.,..doesnt mean you like them or that they are good for you (actually the are probably nutritionally sound)

[nateair]

bristle worms are also fun to hold, they feel so cool on your skin. you should give it a try sometime.

[Dazed And Confused]

Careful - don't push it, nateair.

[Ochi]

I found that one of the most hilarious things ever.

Sadly, the members here are so used to uneducated newbies that we couldn't originally see the humor. Hmm

[sjm817]

DAMN! Now I have to see if the LFS will take back this Flounder :furious:

[mhurley]

nateair,

Do you enjoy talking to yourself?

You have email.

[mhurley]

Thread closed