Our Tbs

[gregt]

This thread was automatically split due to performance issues. You can find the rest of the thread here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=5673369#post5673369

[dwculp]

Ill send a check or MO for shipping costs also!!

[greenbean36191]

Is there a particular kind of alcohol that is less damaging to the baby? (I know it is going to die, just want to preserve the body the best). Rubbing alcohol?
Ideally you want ethanol in the highest percentage you can get (a reason to hit up the liquor store :)). Rubbing alcohol should work just for short term to preserve enough detail to tell if they are veligers or crawling larvae. You could also use formalin instead if you have it.

[drk70]

Originally posted by dwculp
Ill send a check or MO for shipping costs also!!
Sent you a PM.

[bobt2]

we split again, is this some sort of r/c record ?

[patsan]

Is Dennis the new frag man? :D

Sally, I think my skimmer went nuts because when I turned the vacuum off, I squeezed the bag to get out any water before removing it from the sump, so I wouldn't spill water all over. When I squeezed it, dirty water was flowing thru it into the sump, and for whatever reason, the skimmer went crazy.
It only took about an hour for it to all clear up. I'll just remember next time to turn the skimmer off when I vacuum the sump.

[lossman]

Pat, I just keep a towel by the tank so when I am ready to take the vacuum out, I rest the bag on the towel to get it to the sink. I figured I just went to all the trouble to get that gunk out, no sense letting any of it back in!! :)

[DiverDownBrian]

Another hitchhiker from my TBS Keys rock:

http://ricker.gotdns.org/aquarium/bristleworm%201%209-8.jpg

[patsan]

Originally posted by DiverDownBrian
Another hitchhiker from my TBS Keys rock:

http://ricker.gotdns.org/aquarium/bristleworm%201%209-8.jpg

Whoa! What is that?

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by patsan
Whoa! What is that?

Either a bristleworm(good) or fireworm(bad), whatever it is, sure is pretty.

Nice picture Brian!

Brian

[greenbean36191]

It's a bristleworm AND a fireworm. Bristleworms covers all polychaetes. Fireworms are a family of polychaetes (Amphinomidae), all of which except H. carunculata are good guys. They are the ones with the calcium bristles that most people think of as typical bristleworms.

This guy looks like it may actually be the infamous but rare H. carunculata which feeds on corals. Have a close look at the head. If there is a little tuft of red hair on it then you got the bad guy and you need to pull it. It actually looks like the caruncle (the tuft of hair) is visible on the end to the left.

Here is a picture to that shows the caruncle you're looking for (the thing in the center of the head). http://members.cox.net/boonilsson/Fireworm_256-20.jpg

[lossman]

Great picture, greenbean!!! When we had a worm in our tank that I was unsure of, I searched high and low for a picture that would definitely show me if it was the bad or good one. Couldn't find one. Luckily, Harley took care of that worm for me!! What a good little fish he has turned out to be!!! :)

[greenbean36191]

That's not my picture. I just found it on google. That's why it's in a link and not embedded.

[patsan]

Well, I'd say I don't have any bristle worms or fireworms because I have never seen anything like that before!

[BrianPlankis]

Pat,

I would be VERY suprised if you don't have any bristleworms, unless you have fish/shrimp in both tanks that are predators of them. Most bristleworms move around after dark so people rarely see them.

Brian

[patsan]

Originally posted by CirolanidHunter
Pat,
I would be VERY suprised if you don't have any bristleworms, unless you have fish/shrimp in both tanks that are predators of them. Most bristleworms move around after dark so people rarely see them.
Brian
I saw a worm in the TBS tank that I thought was a bristle worm. It comes out when I fed the tank each morning. I haven't seen it on a few weeks though. But it certainly didn't look like that picture! Mine was more or less regular earth worm color, except it had bristles on the sides....almost like the worms I used to use when I went fishing.

[greenbean36191]

That would be a bristleworm. Most of the worms in your tank, including featherdusters are bristleworms.

[bobt2]

pat, i have them in my tbs tank

[patsan]

Originally posted by bobt2
pat, i have them in my tbs tank
I think everyone does. I just don't see many of them. I have NEVER seen anything like that fireworm either.:eek1:

[dwculp]

It is amazing what lives in our tanks that we never see. I have only ever seen one bristleworm and that was a fleeting glimpse, another time (only a couple of weekes ago) there was a large brittle star sitting out on the rocks, lifted his leg andf released a bunch of little white orbs into the water and then when back into the rocks. Never seen him before and never seen him since.

Yesterday I saw my "ghost shrimp" he was sitting in a cave, he was about in inch long and 100% transparent. I see him once every few months. In the almost one year of having the tank I have seen it only 3-4 times.

Amazing.

[bobt2]

6 months into the tank i've yet to see a pistol and the clicking is getting less

[dwculp]

Oh yeah, thats another thing. I have a pictol shrimp in there since day one. I hear the clicking (though a lot less now) and I have never seen him.

[bobt2]

exactly!

[lossman]

We have at least one pistol shrimp. I used to be able to see it or parts of it as it quickly went through the open cave area under the rocks. Since the pistol(s) filled that area in, we never see it....just hear it's clicking and see the new mounds of sand it makes every few days or so. :)

[dwculp]

Well, I spoke too soon, about 5 minutes after posting my last message I went over to the tank and there in a cave I saw my little "ghost" shrimp. His beady eyes looking out and swaying in the current. I call him my ghost shrimp because he is so hard to see that you almost wonder if you are really seeing a little shrimp. Then in the back of the cave, barely visable was a yelloish claw with a black stripe on it, it slowly faded into the dark.

By the way, my brown crud is back :(

[bobt2]

i'll trade you your brown crud for my hairy red algea

[dwculp]

I will make that trade!! I have been battling this for two months now. Turning the lights out really helped, so I may go with turning the lights out for a 2 weeks!!!

[dwculp]

I am seriously thinking of adding a UV sterilizer to help kill any free floating algae in the tank. This problem now has me at my wits end!!

[bobt2]

mine is a few kinds of red growing on rocks. some looks like plants, some thin strands growing from the rock, some bright red and slimey and some dark red and no slime

[dwculp]

How long has it been going on?

[bobt2]

quite a while. i prune it every other week.if you want i'll shoot you some pictures tonight

[lossman]

We currently have three kinds of algae.....red slime, brown "crud" and green. All at the same time!! We had the red slime so bad a few months ago that we used the Chemi-Clean to get rid of it. It worked really well but ..... here we go again! At least none of the three is really bad. The red is mostly in one corner of the fuge, the green seems to be on one area of the back glass and the brown is on one area of the sand and on the maxi-jet mag mounts. I'm going to pick up a phos pad today and put that down in the sump to see if that helps any. Our phosphates and silicates all measure zero now and nitrates are around 10 -15. Before anyone gives suggestions on cutting back on feeding, water changes, running carbon etc....we've done all of that. As per Randy in the chemistry forum, we are just going through one of those normal cycles for a young tank. :rolleye1:

BTW, how does a UV sterilizer work to control the algae?

[bobt2]

i guess i'm lucky than, only the red micro algea, no slime, no green or brown

[lossman]

Well, we picked up our third fish for the main tank. He's in qt right now and hiding. Once he feels a little more "at home" and comes out we will take a picture and post it. He's a (now don't laugh...this is for real!!!) slippery dick wrasse. He's just a baby and does not have his full adult coloration so he's kind of bland now...pretty much black and white. He was wild caught so we will be really babying this one. The tank will stay dark most of the time and lights only when we feed him. We will be adding some copper tomorrow and we put in a lot of hiding places for him. Fingers crossed that this little guy makes it. BTW, we have not named him as yet and would welcome suggestions. :)

[patsan]

Why are you adding copper?:confused:

[skippy2]

You could name him Peter. :lol:

[lossman]

Because the last wild caught fish we bought, the blue hamlet, went bad so quickly. On advise from a couple of books and from our lfs (who actually said "It can't hurt and I add copper to all my qt tanks"). The book actually says to add a mild copper solution to the qt tank one day after adding the fish. This helps to prevent any disease outbreaks that might happen. We did not add any copper, nor did we even have any on hand, when we had the blue hamlet in qt. He was just fine the day we put him in, not even hiding. He ate well and seemed quite curious of his surroundings. The next morning, he was hiding a bit more, which we thought was perfectly normal. By that evening, I noticed that he seemed to be breathing a bit hard. I believe that if we had added copper at that time, he would have survived. Instead, we had to go through the agonizing process of watching him slowly die. It was horrible. Anything we can do to help this little guy survive, we are going to do.

Actually, I will be going back through all our books and building a "fish first aid kit" this weekend. I don't ever want to be at the point where some basic first aid supply could save my fish and me not having it on hand.

[lossman]

Originally posted by skippy2
You could name him Peter. :lol:

LOL, we thought of that and were actually thinking of Pedro. :)

We'll be taking suggestions and will wait a week (just to make sure he survives) before settling on a permanent name. Keep em coming!!! :)

BTW, Brett suggested Wet Willy!!!!! :rollface:

[patsan]

By adding the copper, don't you then have to be really careful about what corals you'll put into the QT?

[lossman]

Originally posted by patsan
By adding the copper, don't you then have to be really careful about what corals you'll put into the QT?

This qt is for fish only. Once we start getting corals, we will get another Walmart special 10 gal qt tank for those. I am not sure that copper will absorb into the glass or the silicone sealant, but it's best not to take any chances. The Walmart specials are cheap enough to have two.

[lossman]

BTW, I have heard people say that the frozen cubes have a lot of excess nutrients and phosphates etc in the liquid and that they should be strained before adding to the main tank to help with algae problems. Since we are currently battling algaes, how do you strain the mysis frozen cubes??????

[lossman]

Originally posted by patsan
By adding the copper, don't you then have to be really careful about what corals you'll put into the QT?

Another BTW....that's an awesome question, Pat and I am going to post this in the chemistry forum. I wonder how others clean their qt tanks when they have used copper in them.

[patsan]

I just put them into a small strainer and run RO/DI thru it to more or less wash it off. It's hard to get the small pieces back though. I also tried doing it in the net, but that was even harder to get out of the net. More stayed in it than what went into the tank.:(

I always thought once you dose copper, the tank will always have copper in it because it leeches into the silicone. But I could be wrong. That's why I asked.

[drk70]

Originally posted by lossman
BTW, how does a UV sterilizer work to control the algae?
My understanding of a UV sterilizer is you have a UV bulb contained in a tube in which you pump water through and is exposed to the UV light. Whatever goes through it is killed by the UV light I believe. The problem is it is not discriminate, it will kill the good stuff too.

[lossman]

Brett had a great idea on rinsing the cubes. First we put the cube in a small plastic cup to defrost. Once defrosted we added some tank water to it. Then took Pat's idea of straining it through the net. But then, we took the net, put it back over the plastic cup (mysis side down, of course) and added some more tank water to wash the mysis off the net. It worked out great!!!

Thanks, Pat!!! :)

[lossman]

Originally posted by drk70
My understanding of a UV sterilizer is you have a UV bulb contained in a tube in which you pump water through and is exposed to the UV light. Whatever goes through it is killed by the UV light I believe. The problem is it is not discriminate, it will kill the good stuff too.

That's what we thought. Since the algae is on the sand, glass and rocks, I guess the only way the uv will kill the algae spores is if you swish it up into the water column. I was talking to our lfs today (these guys are awesome, btw!!) and John told us to just stir up the sand bed, let the filter socks gather all the crap, use a ph to spray stuff off the rocks, let the filer take it all down, then replace the socks. Do this every day for several days and it should pretty much eliminate our algae problem and bring down our nitrates (which is probably what is causing our algae problem!!) So, today I put clean filter socks on, swished up the sand bed a bit and sucked up the red slime out of the refugium. Tomorrow I will do all this again...and the next day and the next. Until our nitrates and algae are pretty much gone. :) I'll keep you all posted how this affects our water parameters. I'm a little concerned about all the crap in the sand bed getting into the water column and doing nasty things. So, on advise, I am doing just a 1/4" of the sand bed depth at a time. We'll see what happens. :)

[jnb]

research how much heat they add too

Originally posted by drk70
My understanding of a UV sterilizer is you have a UV bulb contained in a tube in which you pump water through and is exposed to the UV light. Whatever goes through it is killed by the UV light I believe. The problem is it is not discriminate, it will kill the good stuff too.

[dwculp]

A UV filter can help to control various sorts of algae that have free floating or swimming spores. The free floating portions get sucked into the UV, irradiated and killed and therby cannot attach anywhere. A friend of mine was having a green film algae problem in his fresh tank and installed a UV sterilizer and the problem disappeared almost overnight. Not sure if it would work on GHA.

[dwculp]

I went and got a small jar of Kalk at the LFS (paid an arm and a leg for it!) and Monday I am going to try and setup a Kalk drip. I just dont quite know how I am going to get the jug of Kalk water above the tank! I just need a small continer of about a gallon or so and run some airline tubing from it into the tank.

[lossman]

Pat, Randy at the Chemistry Forum suggested cleaning the qt tank that had been treated with copper with straight vinegar or a muriatic acid solution. He "thinks" this will clean it properly but suggested that the tank get tested with a snail or less desirable invert first for a couple of weeks. :) Per advise of others, we will not be treating our qt with copper unless/until the fish shows signs of disease. It seems it would mess terribly with our biological filtration system. Right now the silly fish keeps laying over on it's side and playing dead. Seems this is normal wrasse behavior. In the mean time, I am having palpitations thinking we are in the process of loosing our second fish!! If this stupid thing lives, I might have to name him something really bad. Something this forum does not allow to be posted. Something that goes well with his legal name. :smokin:

[patsan]

I've read many times that a UV sterilizer is great to kill whatever alage problems people have, but it also kills good stuff, and it seems mostly people with sps tanks use them. Most don't recommend it unless absolutely necessary.

Okay, you're having palps thinking the poor fish is going to die, then you call it a stupid fish? ;)

I just had to run up to HD to get a few things, and I stopped in the LFS to see if they had any fish that might interest me. They didn't.:( Oh well.....another time.
I'd really love to get a green clown goby, but I am not paying $25 to ship a $6.99 fish. So if I come across one locally, I'll get it, otherwise not.:fish1:

[lossman]

Yes, it's a stupid fish for stressing me out this way!!! LOL

[Fred_J]

Lossman-- I think your idea of a fish first aid kit is great. I have a few things on hand but I know I'm missing a lot. When you finish your research of what is needed please post a list. In the small town I live in the LFS carries very few chemicals so if something happened I would have to mail order it.

Fred

[lossman]

Thanks, I will def post the list once I compose it tomorrow. When we lost the last fish in qt, I felt horrible thinking that if only I had something on hand to dose the tank with, I might have been able to save it. Perhaps not, but I plan to make sure I have a complete first aide kit on hand from now on.

[bobt2]

dwculp, heres another thought. put the kalk mix in a flexable jug. run 2 lines 1 in and one out, the out line 2/3 down into the jug and seal the top.you can than pressurize the jug with an air pump or hand pump like a tire pump. it will force the calk up to the tank where you set the drip rate.

[phil519]

Originally posted by patsan
I've read many times that a UV sterilizer is great to kill whatever alage problems people have, but it also kills good stuff, and it seems mostly people with sps tanks use them. Most don't recommend it unless absolutely necessary.

Okay, you're having palps thinking the poor fish is going to die, then you call it a stupid fish? ;)

I just had to run up to HD to get a few things, and I stopped in the LFS to see if they had any fish that might interest me. They didn't.:( Oh well.....another time.
I'd really love to get a green clown goby, but I am not paying $25 to ship a $6.99 fish. So if I come across one locally, I'll get it, otherwise not.:fish1:

The other issue with a sterilizer is that there is no guarantee that you can cycle the critters thru the tube. The floating baddies could be in your tank for months before ever getting sucked into the area with the UV light. At best it may help to mitigate some of the issue but personally I think an increase in water changes would be ideal.

[dwculp]

Originally posted by bobt2
dwculp, heres another thought. put the kalk mix in a flexable jug. run 2 lines 1 in and one out, the out line 2/3 down into the jug and seal the top.you can than pressurize the jug with an air pump or hand pump like a tire pump. it will force the calk up to the tank where you set the drip rate.

That is an excellent idea and I was kicking around that very same idea earlier today. I will experiment when I go into work tomorrow. I can probably get a 1 litter water bottle with a screw cap and drill a hole in the top, insert the tubing and then hot glue the hole shut to seal it off.

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

Our local club had a tank tour today and I took the opportunity to get this zoa frag, 4 turbo snails that breed, 2 collonista snails and some cheato with featherdusters for $10. Not too bad :)

I hope these zoas like my tank, they are very pretty with a purple ring around the gold center under actinics:

Here they are next to my old favorites :) They are still adjusting to the tank(I didn't quarantine, just did a RC zoa dip). My widsom teeth pulling has made me lazy and I didn't want to setup the QT tank. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/09102005newzoas1.jpg

A closeup:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/09102005newzoas2.jpg

I'll try to get a better picture when they are open and happy.

Brian

[patsan]

Brian, what color is the skirt on those new zoas? The orange looks nice and bright! Great price too.

Bob asked me to post some pictures of the algae he's been talking about.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/108_0814.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/108_0822.jpg
and his condy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/108_0827.jpg

[bobt2]

thanks pat, hopefully someone can tell me what it is and how to fight it.the phospate at zoro doesn't seam to change it's growth. dwculp,a bigger jug with more airspace will help a lot 1 liter isn't big enough to get any pressure. 1 gal would be better.

[H2OLUVSME]

Originally posted by CirolanidHunter
Here they are next to my old favorites :) They are still adjusting to the tank(I didn't quarantine, just did a RC zoa dip). My widsom teeth pulling has made me lazy and I didn't want to setup the QT tank. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.

Brian

FWIW, i never QT corals unless there is something bothering them that i cannot remove.
nice zoas!;)


Bob, how bout a full tank shot. that hardly looks like the infestation ive been picturing in my head.

[drk70]

Bob, that looks like the same red algea I had, just not that much of it. My blue tang ate all of it and I have no sign of it what so ever.

[bkelley02]

Any suggestions on how to remove an anemone? Everytime I try, it feels like it's already cemented to the rock and I can't move it. I have a flower anemone that keeps walking closer to my plate coral and the coral doesn't like it. I don't really have a good place to move the plate because of it's size, so it's pretty much stuck were it is.

[patsan]

Try aiming a powerhead on it. That might make the foot release, and you'll be able to get it easy. If you don't want it to live, than just scrape it off.

[bkelley02]

I'll try the powerhead. I'd much rather sell/trade it in at the LFS then kill it. It's grown quite a bit in the 2 1/2 months I've had it though, and don't know how much bigger I could let it get in my tank either.

[H2OLUVSME]

anenone removal

i really like Pats idea. ive used it before on anemones and soft corals succesfully.

ive also just pryed them up very carefully. if you can get the edge of the foot to lift up, its pretty easy to peel the rest away from the rock.

the easiest (but not always the most effective) way is to remove the rock the anemone is on from the water. when i have anemones attached to small rocks, i usualy lift the rock out of the water. most of the time (but not always) the anemone lets go and falls back into the water where it is easy to retrieve. the drawback to this is if the anemone doesnt let got it shrivels and retracts making it even harder to get under the edge of the foot.

[bkelley02]

unfortunately, it's attached itself to the bottom of the biggest rock in the tank. Takes up about 1/3 of my tank so that last option won't work for me. Thanks for the suggestions though.:)

[drk70]

I got lucky when I took my condy out. It decided to move onto the sand so I just grabbed it.

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by patsan
Brian, what color is the skirt on those new zoas? The orange looks nice and bright! Great price too.

Bob asked me to post some pictures of the algae he's been talking about.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/108_0814.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/108_0822.jpg
and his condy:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/108_0827.jpg

Pat,

The skirts are bright green :) They are my most colorful zoa now and are colorful under both 10K and actinics.

Bob,

I had that first algae and it flourished when I had excess nutrients, but now that my skimmer is doing a good job it died off.

The 2nd algae was the bane of my existance. I tried pulling it off manually and it kept coming back. My urchins would eat it but seemed to prefer other food. Maybe a blue tang will help you, but I eventually pulled out my three rocks that had that algae and let them air dry because I didn't want it spreading. It wasn't TBS rock so I didn't lose much life.

Brian

[lossman]

Our new fish did not make it. It died today....about 24 hours after we put it in qt. The water param were excellent. The little guy just could not handle the stress. We will wait a month or so before getting another fish.

[dwculp]

Ok, I got my Kalk drip system up and running, dripping about 1 drop every 2-3 seconds, does that sound about right?

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by dwculp
Ok, I got my Kalk drip system up and running, dripping about 1 drop every 2-3 seconds, does that sound about right?

Did you go the pressurized route? You might want to test if the rate is correct with just RO/DI water the first couple of times to make sure it isn't too fast or too slow?

Brian

[dwculp]

Originally posted by CirolanidHunter
Did you go the pressurized route? You might want to test if the rate is correct with just RO/DI water the first couple of times to make sure it isn't too fast or too slow?

Brian

No, I just set a small 1 gallon plastic rubbermaid "tea" jar on the back of the tank, drilled a hole in the top and run some airline tubing down. Works really well actually.

[bobt2]

btw the second algea has a clear slime when i pick it. removing the effected rocks is not an option

[dwculp]

I have been feeding my tank sparingly during this brown crud battle, I think I will have to up my feeding. I saw my coral banded shrimp attack a hermit crab tonight, then my serpent star came out and stole the hermit crab from the CBS!!!!

[bkelley02]

I've been feeding my tank VERY lightly lately too. On Saturday, my daughter wanted to watch me feed the starfish, so I did. The sand errupted with the Vibex coming out and two of the remaining gorilla crabs became VERY brave. I just wasn't prepared to grab them. The Peppermint shrimp were even braver then usual. I'll be waiting till this coming weekend setting some traps and see what I come up with!! :D:uzi:

[bobt2]

i was looking at an add for a product called az-no3. it it suppose to get rid of nitrates. it's it just something else to part us from our money or will it work?

[H2OLUVSME]

Originally posted by bobt2
i was looking at an add for a product called az-no3. it it suppose to get rid of nitrates. it's it just something else to part us from our money or will it work?

it wont eliminate the source of the nitrates. it may give you a temporary fix, but it wont solve any long term problems.

[bobt2]

landon, right now i'm at 15ppm, but as you know it slowly builds.since my phospate is 0,it's the only thing that could be feeding the red algea

[dwculp]

Not exactly true, you red algae could be using the PO4 fast enough that it doesnt show on a test kit.

[bobt2]

i don't know if thats true. i have the phospate reactor running too.

[bobt2]

well the weather looks good in tampa for the whole week

[BrianPlankis]

Bob,

I haven't heard of az-NO3, and I agree with Landon it is only treating the symptom. However, I do use chemicals sometimes too :)

I found this interesting page from Marc:

http://melevsreef.com/chemicals.html

Brian

[patsan]

Sorry your fish didn't make it Sally.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS1/verysad.gif

Maybe you should try and get your next one some place else. I know you said the store is great, but you haven't had much luck with the fish from there.

Bob, I think that stuff is only a temporary fix to the nitrate problem, and you should probably try to get to the root of the problem to get rid of it without dosing. Glad the weather will be good all week down in Tampa. I'd still be worried about the quality of the rock after all that red tide they have in those waters.

[H2OLUVSME]

Bob, this is one place where a sump/refugium would be a great asset. adding faster growing (or at least competitive) plant life to a refugium would reduce the amount of nutrients available in the display.

i agree with Dave, and have said it before, i think you should throw out most test results when you are having an algae problem. they may help you find the root of the problem, but most of the time they just give a false sense of confidence, IMO.

if the algae is using the PO4 and NO3 at a fast enough rate it may never show up on a test kit.

i think it may come down to manual removal or multiple massive water changes, in your case.

have you tried emerald crabs?

[bobt2]

i.m not sure there is a water problem, nitrates build up over time. there is no red slime, green or brown algea, only these red " plants" growing in a few spots that i don't like

[patsan]

Originally posted by bobt2
i.m not sure there is a water problem, nitrates build up over time. there is no red slime, green or brown algea, only these red " plants" growing in a few spots that i don't like
But didn't you say that it was slimy with the 2nd type algae you had?

[bobt2]

when i pull it off the rocks theres a clear slime with it, but its not the red slime that grows on the sand bed

[lossman]

Originally posted by patsan
Sorry your fish didn't make it Sally.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS1/verysad.gif

Maybe you should try and get your next one some place else. I know you said the store is great, but you haven't had much luck with the fish from there.


Thanks Pat, but these fish are not readily available in any stores....at least not around here. They must be wild caught and then hope they survive the trip from the Keys to the shop, then the stress of going from the shop to our place. I think our best bet is to skip the middle man and find someone that can get these fish directly to us. We can't mail order them either because no one is usually home during the day to receive them.

We'll wait a few months until temps are better in the Gulf and then try again.

[lossman]

Bob, gracilaria (which is what your red algae looks like) has a slimy feel to the leaves, is that what you mean by slimey? Brett and I have actually gone out and bought this stuff trying to keep it in our tank because we like the looks of it. :) Unfortunately, our crabs love the taste of it and eat it almost as fast as we put it in the tank. LOL Tangs and Angels are supposed to enjoy eating this stuff too.

[bobt2]

picture 1 has a slime feel to it. picture 2 actually has a clear slime that comes off with it when i pull it off the rocks. none of the clean up crew will touch it and the tank is too small for a tang. 48x12x13

[lossman]

want a mithrax crab that loves any kind of algae??? :D

[jnb]

Before - I had numerous algae problems.

I attribute:

1 my skimmer, its skimming wetter setting,
2 more snails the kind that go into the sand,
3 emeralds for the bubble - ,
4 time

for getting it under control nicely - despite the fact that I am feeding more

the two I value most highly are the skimmer setting and time

[bobt2]

i had 1 of those crabs and took him out. i'll try to find him in my f/o tank. i also have the urchins in there. wonder what they would do to it?

[Fred_J]

Sally--Sorry about your loss. I find it very puzzling. Years ago when I was younger and even "more" foolish I tried some of the same fish without spending more than ten mins. float acclimating them. Then used a fresh water dip with formalin added and a quick rinse in freshwater again before gong into the display tank. I still had relatively few or no losses after my tank was mature. The few losses I did have were attributed to the fish being captured with cyanide , a popular practice at that time.
I know your fish are being treated with less stress and proper acclimation procedures. I wonder if you could get a test vial of water from the LFS to check for something vastly different from your water.
You are doing everything right with your acclimation procedures.
I know you believe they are stress related but I know in the 1970's I put tremendous stress on my new fish with a very low failure rate and I freely admit I did not know what I was doing. I just cannot seem to come up with a reason for the deaths, except they were doomed to start with.

Fred

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by bobt2
i had 1 of those crabs and took him out. i'll try to find him in my f/o tank. i also have the urchins in there. wonder what they would do to it?

Bob,

My TBS urchins would eat the second kind of algae you have, they would wipe it out completely in the paths that they ate on the rocks(along with the coralline). My problem was that the urchins seemed to enjoy eating other stuff more and only ate it if they passed over it randomly. It quickly regrew from the areas they didn't eat.

Brian

[bobt2]

i may try it. i can afford to give up a little coraline

[lossman]

We just finished having some plumbing work done on our tank. We had a more powerful return pump put on, all the returns replumbed with ball valves and a spray bar added to spray water down behind the rocks against the back glass. I'm really happy with the results. This is all going to add more flow to the tank and the spray bar will eliminate any dead spots down behind the rock work.

We also changed out half of our bulbs and the new ones really make the red and orange sponges pop. Before the predominant color in the tank was purple, now the red and orange sponges really show up and add a really nice visual touch to the tank. It also really makes the tank bright. I can't wait to see what happens when we change out the other set of bulbs!!!

[H2OLUVSME]

Bob, I have two (now large) urchins that I have in my TBS tank. they don't seem to have any negative effect on the coraline and I don't have any other accessible algae for them.

the main reason I recommend emeralds is because of their diverse diet. I had one in with my mantis and it destroyed every kind of algae I tried to add (for nutrient export). it ate halmeida (sp?) multiple types of caulerpa, GHA, and everything else I tried. also, when I started getting a little die off and algae outbreak in my tank they handled it for me. I was adding to an established tank and knew it would be a while before I got my part two, so I added 5 emeralds to combat algae and dying sponges. within a few days there were no visible dying sponges and no algae. also, I think you'd be better off getting hungry ones from the LFS (as long as they aren't too expensive) then you are adding well fed ones from an established and fed tank. hungry crabs eat a lot more and are a lot less picky than well fed crabs :D

[bobt2]

landon, i like your ideas

[lossman]

When we first got our TBS rock (part one and part two), there were always those people who would say that the hitchikers on the rock would not live. Sponges would die, barnacles would never survive more than a week or so, any corals would shrivel up and die. I just wanted to share with all you believers (and non believers) in TBS rock that today I noticed that the tiny barnacle that has been on the rock that was in part one is still alive and well. Our sponges have had minor die back but are now reproducing. We currently have new star corals and tube corals showing up every day.

TBS ROCK ROCKS!!!!!!! :lol:

[dwculp]

None of my barnacles survived, but a large amount of the spongesn survived and are doing well and nearly all my clams survived also. I have had some die off recently because of this problem I have been having.

[jnb]

and you just might want to focus on getting females I was told and have not experienced a male - apparently more aggressive at eating stuff you don't want it to - its not proven to me - but I took the advice

Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
Bob, I have two (now large) urchins that I have in my TBS tank. they don't seem to have any negative effect on the coraline and I don't have any other accessible algae for them.

the main reason I recommend emeralds is because of their diverse diet. I had one in with my mantis and it destroyed every kind of algae I tried to add (for nutrient export). it ate halmeida (sp?) multiple types of caulerpa, GHA, and everything else I tried. also, when I started getting a little die off and algae outbreak in my tank they handled it for me. I was adding to an established tank and knew it would be a while before I got my part two, so I added 5 emeralds to combat algae and dying sponges. within a few days there were no visible dying sponges and no algae. also, I think you'd be better off getting hungry ones from the LFS (as long as they aren't too expensive) then you are adding well fed ones from an established and fed tank. hungry crabs eat a lot more and are a lot less picky than well fed crabs :D

[jnb]

what kind of lighting do you have?

Originally posted by lossman
We just finished having some plumbing work done on our tank. We had a more powerful return pump put on, all the returns replumbed with ball valves and a spray bar added to spray water down behind the rocks against the back glass. I'm really happy with the results. This is all going to add more flow to the tank and the spray bar will eliminate any dead spots down behind the rock work.

We also changed out half of our bulbs and the new ones really make the red and orange sponges pop. Before the predominant color in the tank was purple, now the red and orange sponges really show up and add a really nice visual touch to the tank. It also really makes the tank bright. I can't wait to see what happens when we change out the other set of bulbs!!!

[lossman]

Originally posted by jnb
what kind of lighting do you have?

Combination PC and VHO.

[H2OLUVSME]

Originally posted by jnb
what kind of lighting do you have?

they've got the ghetto rig!

:lol:

[lossman]

Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
they've got the ghetto rig!

:lol:

Bight me!!!!! :(

Hey, at least we can keep our sponges, corals, and other TBS hitchikers alive and thriving.....all on our GHETTO RIG!!! :þ

LOL

[phil519]

Originally posted by dwculp
None of my barnacles survived, but a large amount of the spongesn survived and are doing well and nearly all my clams survived also. I have had some die off recently because of this problem I have been having.

I don't believe any barnacles survived either - but I was pretty inconsistent about dosing phyto. My other issue with barnacles (while fascinating critters) they do not lend themselves to "stability" when trying to place a frag on the bumpy rock.

Most of my clams /mussels are alive as well but I dunno if that is a good thing in light of the freak accident that happened with Landon's fish.

[dwculp]

What happened to Landons fish?? I must have missed something!

[H2OLUVSME]

it was totally freak, and i am not worried that it could happen again. my fairy wrasse was chasing a brine through a tight space and one of the oyesters closed. it pinned his head between the side of the oyester shell and the rock. 10 minutes later when the oyester got comfortable and opened up, i grabbed the fish and its little head was smashed :( i dont think it could happen again i na million years. but then again i wouldnt have thought it possible if i hadnt of seen it! :eek1:

[H2OLUVSME]

Originally posted by lossman
Bight me!!!!! :(

Hey, at least we can keep our sponges, corals, and other TBS hitchikers alive and thriving.....all on our GHETTO RIG!!! :þ

LOL

i was just kidding :D

glad you can tell :smokin:

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

All my barnacles got eaten by my mantis shrimps. I had some sponge die off and most tunicates didn't make it, but most of my sea squirts, sponges, clams and all my Christmas tree worms (minus the one I killed) are all fine after 8 months in my care. I do see some sponges spreading as well.

Here are some pictures I took tonight:
This is a picture of a piece of dead rock I brought back from Hawaii that I finally put in the tank tonight(boring pic I know, but it is for a progression series as it gets covered in life):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/09132005hawaiirock.jpg

Here is the full tank shot:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/09132005fulltank.jpg

Here is the left side:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/09132005lefttank.jpg

And the right side:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/09132005rightttank.jpg

I made two agrocrete rocks for my tank and they are curing right now, once those are ready I can redo my rockwork as I'm not very happy with it at the moment.

Here is the mother colony under 10K of the latest zoas I got(not my colony, this is in the seller's tank):
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45/garagebrian/2005JournalPics/karenbtanktour10.jpg

Brian

[dwculp]

Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
it was totally freak, and i am not worried that it could happen again. my fairy wrasse was chasing a brine through a tight space and one of the oyesters closed. it pinned his head between the side of the oyester shell and the rock. 10 minutes later when the oyester got comfortable and opened up, i grabbed the fish and its little head was smashed :( i dont think it could happen again i na million years. but then again i wouldnt have thought it possible if i hadnt of seen it! :eek1:

Actually, I have heard of this happening before. There was a thread about it a long time ago. A few people have lost fish to clams clamping on them. Still, a very rare event indeed!

[lossman]

Our christmas tree worm is gone. :( Several days ago we noticed a bristleworm trying to get into the x-mas tree worm's tube. There was a lot of that spiderweb type stuff around it so we figured the x-mas worm had died and the bristleworm was eating it. Next day the x-mas worm was out in all it's glory and the spiderweb stuff was gone. Yesterday the x-mas worm's tube was again covered in spiderweb stuff and a slimy bubble thing. After the hermits and snails cleaned that stuff up, the tube looks empty. I have not seen the x-mas worm since. I'm so sad as that was a really pretty x-mas worm, deep navy blue. Such goes the way of the reef, I guess. :(

[bobt2]

with the weather in fla. being good i wonder if tbs has been in the water

[patsan]

Well, I guess I haven't been as lucky as everyone else who posts here. I had quite a bit of die-off. The barnicles, tunicates, the really pretty colored sponges, most tube corals and some of the brain corals did not make it.
The clams, the bland sponges, 1 brain and one tube coral are thriving.
I see new growth with some sponges. I do have a baby star coral that wasn't there when I got the rock. My 2 Christmas tree worms are gone too. I have no idea where or when they disappeared. I haven't seen them in a few weeks now. I still have one sea squirt alive and little patch here and there of colorful sponges, but nowhere near what it was when I got it.
The inverts continue to live on. All in all, I'd say about ½ of what I got died or don't look like they did when I got it.:(
When I got it, I don't think there was a thing that could compare to how awesome it looked. Now it just looks okay.

[bobt2]

pat, imo you underfed. other than a star coral all my stuff is still alive

[H2OLUVSME]

i underfed also. i have lost a lot of my stuff, but the TBS rock still has 10 times more life than the other rock i have.

[Stormtrker]

Well thought I would report in. We just got phone service back last evening so now have internet here at home. We also now have electricity after 2 weeks without. It is a miracle we have all these services so soon and it is due to the thousands of volunteers/workers who arrived soon after Katrina to help. They had over 9,000 arrive from all over the United States to get the electricity back up!

My tank is thriving after 2 weeks of using a generator sev times day for circulation. Remember I had just received my TBS part 2 one week prior to the hurricane. My purple condy has almost doubled in size and seeing lots of new sponge growth etc. The most surprising of all I found a small 1 inch hitchhiker fish yesterday. From searching on line I think it is a rock blenny. Is a mottled brown and white and living in a small hole on top of a rock. It darts out frequently to catch copepods. I am just so thrilled everything in the tank is doing so well as I was fully prepared to lose everything and didn't know how it could survive without electricity. So now I am back and trying to catch up on all the posts here on RC!:)
Carla

[krajacich]

Originally posted by carlab
Well thought I would report in. We just got phone service back last evening so now have internet here at home. We also now have electricity after 2 weeks without. It is a miracle we have all these services so soon and it is due to the thousands of volunteers/workers who arrived soon after Katrina to help. They had over 9,000 arrive from all over the United States to get the electricity back up!

My tank is thriving after 2 weeks of using a generator sev times day for circulation. Remember I had just received my TBS part 2 one week prior to the hurricane. My purple condy has almost doubled in size and seeing lots of new sponge growth etc. The most surprising of all I found a small 1 inch hitchhiker fish yesterday. From searching on line I think it is a rock blenny. Is a mottled brown and white and living in a small hole on top of a rock. It darts out frequently to catch copepods. I am just so thrilled everything in the tank is doing so well as I was fully prepared to lose everything and didn't know how it could survive without electricity. So now I am back and trying to catch up on all the posts here on RC!:)
Carla

That's great to hear Carla. Glad your tank is doing well!

[lossman]

Carla, I am so glad to hear things worked out so well for you!!! Keep us all posted on how the tank does and when you get a chance, post some pictures!!!

Sally

[BrianPlankis]

Carla,

That is awesome to hear most everything survived! How much did you pay for your generator?

Pat and Lossman, did you ever target feed your christmas tree worms phyto? I've been reading online that they slowly starve over 6-8 months if they aren't target fed. I've been target feeding mine once a month and so far they look OK, but I'm approaching 8 months with them, so I might still lose them. I'm going to try to target feed once or twice a week once my rockwork is completed.

Brian

[patsan]

I tried target feeding mine, but most of the time they retracted when I did it, so I'm not sure how much they actually got.

Carla, That's really good news! Glad to hear you and the tank survived!!:)

[lossman]

We target fed ours too. The worm looked great right up until yesterday when it disappeared. Right after the first time the bristle worm attacked it, when the x-mas worm came out of it's tube again, it was limp and it's "feathers" were not extended, but the next day you would not have known anything had ever bothered it.

[ratherbediving]

Carla
With all the bad news about the hurricane, it's nice to hear about someone getting back on their feet! Glad things are working out for you.

OK I don't have TBS, but the 'other' (or one of the other) Florida aquacultured rock. Can I still post anyway :)

I thought it was nice that you guys were compiling a list of invertebrate hitchhikers that we still have in our tanks. For me, I still have:

Christmas tree worm (1) doesn't look as good as it did earlier on, but is still hanging on. (6 months)
A few other different kind of worms (I have to post a couple of these blurry photos). These have really taken off recently.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mroys/aquarium/anotherwormSmall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mroys/aquarium/smallwormSmall.jpg

Yellow sponges that are popping up all over the place
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mroys/aquarium/yellowspongeSmall.jpg
Turkey wing clams
Sargassum algae
Aiptasia (just saw a new one today. After being aiptasia free for about 3 months! Unreal :( )
Featherdusters (reproducing! But strangely, declining at the same time....)
Cup corals
A few other things that I don't know what the heck they are...

Things that AREN'T doing well or that I lost....
Tunicates (lost all of these guys)
Losing red/blue/ orange encrusting sponges
????

[lossman]

From what someone once posted about sponges, they need a nutrient rich environment to thrive. If you aren't having an algae problem, you may not have enough nutrients in your water to support all the sponges. Since we have had one algae bloom after another, I am assuming that's why most of our sponges have done so well. :) The only ones that we lost were the dark blue encrusting sponges (although I do still have one spot that is still doing well but it's way under an overhang) and the two tree sponges. Since having the new return pump added, I have not seen as much algae growing on the glass or sand. I'm happy about that!! I was having to scrape the glass every day. Now I'm down to once every three days....and that's just to get the floating detritus off it.

[BrianPlankis]

RBD,

Thanks for your update and the pics :) I forgot to add my featherdusters are doing GREAT. I have at least a dozen poking out of my sand in various places and many on the rocks, I keep finding new ones.

I also have that yellow sponge (from other rock, not TBS) and it seems to go in cycles. It will develop a really big colony and then it will implode into almost nothing. Then a new colony takes off. Overall it is spreading though.

Brian

[dwculp]

Originally posted by lossman
From what someone once posted about sponges, they need a nutrient rich environment to thrive. If you aren't having an algae problem, you may not have enough nutrients in your water to support all the sponges. Since we have had one algae bloom after another, I am assuming that's why most of our sponges have done so well. :) The only ones that we lost were the dark blue encrusting sponges (although I do still have one spot that is still doing well but it's way under an overhang) and the two tree sponges. Since having the new return pump added, I have not seen as much algae growing on the glass or sand. I'm happy about that!! I was having to scrape the glass every day. Now I'm down to once every three days....and that's just to get the floating detritus off it.

I know when my algae bloom was at it fullest my tank looked like total crap, but the inhabitants never looked better!!! My sponges brain coral and other filter feeders were open HUGE and never looked better!!

[lossman]

Well, there you go!! You want your inhabitants to thrive then get working on cultivating that algae!!!! LOL

[patsan]

I guess that's why a lot of my stuff died. :( I've really tried to keep the water quality up.

Look at this slug I found on the house the other night. I couldn't believe how big it was:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/Creatures/P9128597.jpg

I haven't been getting emails letting me know anyone posted.:(

[patsan]

Landon, I keep meaning to ask you and forget all the time......do you still use that Tahitian Blend algae from brineshrimpdirect? If not, why, and if so, please explain what it does. Thanks.

[bobt2]

pat,do you have optonline.net, i havn't gotton one in two days and i usually get 30 a day

[ratherbediving]

I have to say--- I think reefkeeping in general will always be a mystery to me. The more I read, the less I feel I know sometimes. Although I must say I enjoy the challenge :)

I try to keep my levels pretty low-- PO4 was high for a little while, but using ROWAphos a couple times seemed to help. Otherwise, the Nitrates seem to be around 2, and the PO4 seems to stay pretty close to the low range of the scale.

The thing is though--- unless you were measuring Ocean water near storm water runnoff -- I think the Ocean will pretty much always have a far lower reading of nutrients than we have in our tanks. Areas where sponges, tunicates, all kinds of algae etc are thriving I would think would be very nutrient poor in comparison.

Check out this link for some examples of Ocean water values for things like Nitrates, phosphate etc... out test kits don't measure that low:
Doc Randy's H20 analysis (http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php)

Maybe it is because our skimmers are pulling out the small microorganisms (microplankton) which would normally thrive in such an environment, and certain sponges, tunicates etc. need those in greater abundance.

It seems counterproductive to overskim to keep nutrients low--- which also pulls out the phytoplankton and other microplankton (maybe?) then have to add the stuff back in using some kind of food/additive/phyto.

I have been using Liquid life Bioplankton, but I think I am going to stop.... hard to say; too many conflicting opinions
:confused:

[dwculp]

A lot of it isnt that it is nutrient poor, it is that the nutrients are being used as fast as they are being produced in the ecosystems. It isnt that PO4, nitrate etc are not being produced, it is that the system is in balance. This balance if difficult to achieve in our small, artificially controlled tanks.

[bobt2]

i always turn the skimmer off for 1 1/2 hrs when feeding liquid food

[ratherbediving]

I was trying to say that having tanks with a lot of algae don't necessarily seem like they would support the life we see coming as hitchhikers on our live rock.

If we look at nutrients in two broad categories-- 1 as plankton and other material, and the other as NO3 and PO4 our systems would be deficient in the former, and very 'rich' in the latter. (compared to a real coral reef)

Algae requires some NO3 and PO4 (and light), but doesn't really need plankton. Some of the animals (sponges, some corals like Xenia) can use these directly as well; but most need some kind of plankton or other to survive. The ones that rely the heaviest on plankton are going to be the toughest to keep alive long term.

I guess my point is, when we do tests, we are only testing for NO3 and PO4, but I don't understand how or if high values of those will translate to more "plankton" in our systems (but I do understand how they can cause algae growth to increase)

Bob-- I keep the skimmer turned off for awhile too. Usually at least a few hours, sometimes a day. Sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't see the same results by just turning off the skimmer occasionally and letting the natural populations of microplankton that is already in the tank establish themselves a bit more...

Please excuse my rambling! :)

[bobt2]

interesting thought, but i don't think i want to stress the tank if it doesn't work. i have too much invested in time and money and things are going really well. just tonight i looked behind a rock and it is covered in tiny feather dusters. i have no idea where they came from,after 6 months, it's just the tbs magic

[bobt2]

lossman, i tried to pm you but your box is full

[lossman]

Thanks Bob, I had pm's in there from back in May!!! Cleaned it out and you can pm now. :)

[lossman]

I had no idea that we had any gorilla crabs left in the tank. Today, I decided to set a trap to get the mithraxs out. I caught one munching out on one of my pretty discosomas. That was the last straw!!! I pulled out our bottle traps and wondered what to bait it with. Seeing as how they like algae so much, I baited the trap with a piece of lettuce and one of nori. Put it in the tank and waited. Nothing happened for a long while, then, after white lights went out, I glanced over at the tank. The trap was full of hermits and then, up at the top of the trap, I saw a crab sneak over then slide in. I ran over to look and saw a white crab with black tipped claws. It was not hairy like the other gorillas we had, but black tipped claws mean death to crab!!! LOL

The trap will stay in tonight in hopes of capturing one of the two mithraxs. Bonus is the gorilla. :)

Oh....almost forgot.....after all lights out, I turned on the moon lights and saw this tiny fish swimming around. It had to be only 1/4 to 1/2 inch long and just glowed in the moon lights!!! No idea what it was but hope Harley does not see it!! It was cool!!!

Always something new and wonderful in this tank!! :)

[ratherbediving]

Cool!!! Hope you can take a picture of it someday.


Pat-- that picture of the slug was pretty amazing. I grew up near seattle, and I remember having slugs all over the place... I thought they were huge. Now that I saw your picture, I realize they weren't all that big :)

How is your chilli coral doing? Mine was NOT looking good for awhile. I never saw it open up, and was worried that it wasn't going to make it. Then a couple days ago, inexplicably, it opened up--- and has been opened up about half the time I have seen it! Very strange, don't know what could have been different after all this time. Here is a picture:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/mroys/aquarium/fishtaleseptember58Medium.jpg

This is with the lights on; even when I first got it, and it opened up-- it never opened up when the lights were on.

[patsan]

The chili coral is doing okay. It doesn't look half as nice as yours does though! :( Bob said every morning it's all open, and when he turns the lights on, all the polyps close up.
I honestly haven't seen it open yet because I don't see the tank when the lights come on.

[lossman]

Bob, (and anyone one else interested in TBS rock) if you have not already placed your order, do so asap. Rita is heading for the gulf and by the looks of the radar, there are a number of other potential storms. This hurricane season has been extremely active and is not over yet.!!!!

[liverock]

Originally posted by lossman
Bob, (and anyone one else interested in TBS rock) if you have not already placed your order, do so asap. Rita is heading for the gulf and by the looks of the radar, there are a number of other potential storms. This hurricane season has been extremely active and is not over yet.!!!!

Yup, we were going to the Keys today, but now it is already blowing 21 knots at Molasses Reef near our site down there, so we are blown out again. We are getting real tired of all theses hurricanes.....

TBS

[bobt2]

lossman, i'm getting my keys rock tomorrow. soon i'l have a gulf tank and a keys tank, does it get any better!

[dwculp]

Wow, I am sorry to hear that!

Hopefully by the time I am able to get my 110 gallon long for my classroom you will have plenty of rock!!!

Well, the lights have been out for a week now. I went ahead with the Chemi-Clean treatment yesterday and will change out water tomorrow or wednesday after school. Hopefully this will kill it all!!

[lossman]

Bob, I'm so glad to hear that you will be getting new rock!!!!!! Be sure to post lots of pictures. :)

[bobt2]

i never have figured how. every time i try it says the files are to big, guess thats because i'm a free member

[bobt2]

lossman, did you get your sea fans?

[lossman]

No, we never did get over to TBS on Saturday. We spent most of the day on tank chores and college football.

I have been stirring up the sand bed and changing out filter socks on a daily basis in an attempt to get our nitrates down as low as possible. It's working because last week we were at 15 and yesterday we were around 5. :) Under 5 to zero.

Now, if I could only figure out some way to keep the red slime from growing in that corner of the fuge!!! Sheesh!!!!

[bobt2]

more flow to that corner?

[lossman]

The thing is, we have a small power head in the fuge and it's blowing right into that corner. The strands of red slime are blowing all around in the flow. Plus, we have really good flow in the sump to begin with. I just took our small battery powered vacuum and sucked out what I could. It's odd because the rest of the refugium is pretty much red slime free. It's just the one front corner.

[ratherbediving]

Originally posted by bobt2
i never have figured how. every time i try it says the files are to big, guess thats because i'm a free member

You can always use photobucket... here is an RC link explaining how:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=531326

[phil519]

Originally posted by lossman
The thing is, we have a small power head in the fuge and it's blowing right into that corner. The strands of red slime are blowing all around in the flow. Plus, we have really good flow in the sump to begin with. I just took our small battery powered vacuum and sucked out what I could. It's odd because the rest of the refugium is pretty much red slime free. It's just the one front corner.

How long are the lights on on the fug? Myabe need to trim the amount of macro in there to increase the flow?

[lossman]

Originally posted by phil519
How long are the lights on on the fug? Myabe need to trim the amount of macro in there to increase the flow?

Lights are on opposite schedule of main tank. The macro is on the other side of the fuge....the side that the water flows into the skimmer area. The pump and red slime are on the other side....where the water flows into the fuge from the returns. Since the ph was at the back of the fuge in the past and the slime was growing at the front part, I figured I'd switch sides on the ph.....put it at the front, let the water hit the back side and flow back to the front, creating a bit more turbulence in that front corner. I vacuumed out all the red slime yesterday. This morning that front corner is covered again!! The back corner and rest of the tank is slime free. I guess as long as it stays down in the sump area, I will only clean it out when it gets too annoying. According to Greanbean, the red slime is eating excess nutrients. I guess that's a good thing. :)

[bobt2]

pat, are you still there? youv'e been quiet, hope all is well !

[patsan]

Yes, I'm here. Just it's been crazy around here lately. Everything in the house seems to be breaking all at once. Replacing many things. Doctors appointments for me, etc. Broken computers away at college.....maybe a broken ankle for my son (to the doctor tomorrow to find out for sure) and all kinds of junk like that. It's just been a hectic few weeks.
Friday I am taking the day off and going to the city for the day, and then go to the garden for an Elton John concert. Can't wait. I need the escape.

The tanks are doing good. Nothing really new going on with them. I need to get some more corals, but haven't seen anything I've just had to have lately that is affordable....which is good because all these extra expenses lately are a killer! :rolleyes: :eek1:

[bobt2]

pat, richard will not be shipping gulf rock for the forseeable future. i get pt 1 keys today.

[lossman]

Rita is heading over the Keys today. Here in the Tampa area, we have a really breezy day. Not sure if this is related to Rita or not, but it's a welcome change from the hot, humid, airless days we had been having.

[Jocko]

Originally posted by bobt2
pat, richard will not be shipping gulf rock for the forseeable future. i get pt 1 keys today. Did he give any more details? I suppose how long "the forseeable future" is depends upon why. Is it because Rita will stir up the gulf for a couple more weeks? Is it because the red tide hasn't cleared up enough for more diving? Is it because the gulf site needs 6 months to recover from the red tide?

I got my gulf rock part 1 like 4-5 months ago. If "the forseeable future" is another few weeks then I can deal with that. It will be worth it for those nifty gulf corals. But if it's 6 months then I should probably bite the bullet and get the keys rock for part 2.

[lossman]

Originally posted by Jocko
Did he give any more details? I suppose how long "the forseeable future" is depends upon why. Is it because Rita will stir up the gulf for a couple more weeks? Is it because the red tide hasn't cleared up enough for more diving? Is it because the gulf site needs 6 months to recover from the red tide?



Probably all of the above. Not to mention the fact that hurricane season still has a couple more months to go with only a few letters left in the alphabet!!

[bobt2]

i would guess from talking to richard next year on the gulf rock. altho it survived it lost its color and it may help to see the gulf when the red tide finally goes away

[bobt2]

need a fish id, its too small to get a picture, its a keys hitchhicker. elongated body, 1 black strip down the middle, another black strip along the top and a black spot on the base of the dorsal fin. any guesses?. cant wait for the tank to clear but the keys rock is looking good!

[lossman]

sounds like a juvenile wrasse of some kind. Hard to tell without a picture but I will browse through Reef Fish book this evening to see if anything rings a bell. I'm glad you like the keys rock so far!!!

[bobt2]

so far so good, hard to tell till it clears. new hitchhicker, a snail with a black&white stripped shell. seams like the keys hitchhickers are going to be different than gulf. could be fun.

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

In Houston we were lucky to escape Katrina, but it looks like it might be our turn with Rita. My work (on Galveston Island) sent us home and said don't come back until we tell you (Monday earliest).

Several of my friends are bolting tomorrow, but I'm the farthest north(60 miles from ocean) and my neighbors aren't even bothering to board up. I'm not really sure what to do yet.

I went to the store tonight to get batteries for my air powered pumps for the tank and everyone was sold out. So I have 5 D batteries for 3 pumps that require 5. I'm thinking I'll probably just run one of them. I also snagged 3 computer UPS battery backups from work and that should let me run my fans for a day or two.

I put 6 2-liters of water into the freezer tonight. Not sure what else to do...this is kind of a weird feeling, never had to deal with anything but a weak tropical storm.

Brian

[ratherbediving]

Brian--

Hope everything works out okay for you! Hopefully you won't experience anything much worse than a power outage for a bit.... Sounds like you are doing everything you can to prepare.

Best of luck

[lossman]

We wish you the best, Brian. Our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone that has to deal with Rita. Stay safe.

[Stormtrker]

Brian Rita's winds are already 120mph sustained. Even if it doesn't strengthen the winds will be about 100mph still at 60 miles inland. I think you should at least board windows. Even small objects become projectiles that will easily break windows. I have now been through at least 2 major hurricanes and will never go through one without boarding windows. I have known people who didn't board and they did receive broken windows with lot of water damage. Remember to set your fridge and freezer at highest settings several hrs prior to storm arrival. Buy enough bottled water and nonperishable food to last at least 3 days. Also buy 1-2 large tarps and have several 5gal buckets on hand if you are staying home. Katrina knocked down a large tree on our house causing a 3x3 ft hole and we were able to prevent major flooding of floor using those buckets. Just had to spend a couple of hrs constantly emptying them into tub. Don't want to scare you but always take one of these storms seriously! Best of luck and will be praying this thing will not come ashore at a populated area!
Carla

[patsan]

Brian and everyone down in Rita's path....be safe!

I took some pictures this morning from the TBS tank.
I couldn't decide which of these 3 I liked better.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218630.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218629.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218641.jpg

Condy
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218638.jpg

The lone tube coral remaining alive, and even this one isn't looking so great anymore. :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218642.jpg

Tank shots:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218643.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218644.jpg

[lossman]

Pat, can you post a picture of your TBS tank when you first put part two in? I'd like to see a before and after.

[krajacich]

Looks good Pat...I notice your rabbitfish still has his big black splotch but he looks to be a much brighter yellow since he's settled into the tank. How big is he right now? He looks so small next to the big TBS rocks :)

Brian- Good luck, hope you make it through Rita without any problems!

[patsan]

February
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/P2162894.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/P3013383.jpg

September
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218644.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/TBS%20part%202/P9218643.jpg

Yep Danielle...the foxface never got rid of the black blotch. I think it's about the same size when I got it. I don't really know...it probably did grow a little. Maybe it's 3"?

[bobt2]

still don't have a positive id of my fish hitchhicker but the closest i can find is a yellow line goby

[Stormtrker]

Pat your sandbed on TBS tank appears to be about same depth as mine. I am also starting to get that rainbow of colors against the glass. I assume this is normal? Your condy appears to have grown quite a bit. Mine has a small purple/white crab that lives on rock against the condy's tentacles. He has been there about a week now. Guess he feels safe there. Also the white flower anemone stays next to the condy and you can barely see it behind the tentacles. It has been there several weeks and at first I worried the condy would kill it but it appears to be doing just fine.:)
Wish I had a camera that I could get better pics with. Yours always look so great.
Carla

[Stormtrker]

Originally posted by bobt2
still don't have a positive id of my fish hitchhicker but the closest i can find is a yellow line goby

I have several hitchhikers on my Keys rock that I have never seen posted on TBS thread or on the TBS site. I think the small fish I found is also a goby. He has little tufts above eyes that looks like eyebrows and spends all day darting out of small holes in top rocks catching what I assume must be copepods. He is very fast! I also have an urchin with long very thin black and white spines and one with dark pink short thick spines. These have been moved to a 24G tank I have set up for "bad boys" that I have found on the Keys rock. I also have a small lime green mantis in this tank. I have a couple of Keys rocks in this tank and so far all are thriving. Now if I could just catch some of those crabs from the 75G to add to smaller tank!
Carla

[patsan]

Carla, I think all tanks with sand beds get that gross color on the front. At least it's there and not all over the sand bed. There is also pink coralline along the front underneath the sand bed which you can't see in those pictures.
The condy that I took a picture of today is not the same one I got from TBS. Sadly, that one didn't make it and was gone a week or so after we got it.:(
The one in today's picture we got in June when I placed an order for some snails from reeftopia. It has grown since we got it, and has moved all around, but seems to go back to where it is in today's picture.

[BrianPlankis]

Originally posted by carlab
Brian Rita's winds are already 120mph sustained. Even if it doesn't strengthen the winds will be about 100mph still at 60 miles inland. I think you should at least board windows. Even small objects become projectiles that will easily break windows. I have now been through at least 2 major hurricanes and will never go through one without boarding windows. I have known people who didn't board and they did receive broken windows with lot of water damage. Remember to set your fridge and freezer at highest settings several hrs prior to storm arrival. Buy enough bottled water and nonperishable food to last at least 3 days. Also buy 1-2 large tarps and have several 5gal buckets on hand if you are staying home. Katrina knocked down a large tree on our house causing a 3x3 ft hole and we were able to prevent major flooding of floor using those buckets. Just had to spend a couple of hrs constantly emptying them into tub. Don't want to scare you but always take one of these storms seriously! Best of luck and will be praying this thing will not come ashore at a populated area!
Carla

Thanks everyone for the comments! I'm getting more prepared here. I started running carbon on the tank and I'm doing a 10gal WC after I type this. I'm going to make up another 15 gal of SW immediately. I managed to get 8 more D cell batteries and my wife is going to look for more today at lunch.

I do have one large tarp and plenty of 5-15 gal containers for leaks. My problem is plywood. I went out at 6:30am this morning and there was already a line of 150-200 people in front of me. I talked to Lowes employee and they said they had one truck coming in with approximately 1000 sheets and they would allow each person 10 sheets. Hum...150 x 10 = 1500....I was out of luck. Same thing at HD, even worse actually. I guess I'll have to pray for more plywood tomorrow. My wife is going to check HD by her work, but I've called over 20 Lowes, Ace and HD and all sold out with most not getting more in. You would THINK they would plan a little better for people who need plywood. :mad:

So I have some plywood flooring in my attic and I'll probably pull some of that up tomorrow and try to figure out which few windows I have enough to cover.

I'm praying the hurricane goes farther south...but too early to tell. Of course it would be nice if it just dissappated over the gulf :D Stay safe everyone.

Anyone know how many watts a typical dial timer uses? If I leave I was thinking of putting air pumps on separate timers to run 12 HR shifts.

Brian

[patsan]

Brian, don't know what you mean about how many watts a typical timer uses.
I just got the box for mine and it has this written on the box:

Rated Capacity:
10 Amps (1200 Watts) "R" Resistive

10 Amps (1200 Watts) Tungsten

120 Volts AC, 60Hz

MAX 23 hr 30 min

MIN 30 min

This was off the box of an Intermatic Outdoor Timer

[lossman]

Pat, I was looking at older pictures of our tank from back when we put part one and two in. That's why I wanted to compare yours. It looks like you have lost the same kinds of sponges that we did....the tree and wood sponges as well as some tunicates and sea squirts. Our tank still looks so colorful probably because we had so much encrusting sponge covering the rock and this has survived and even spread. I'm also wondering about your tube corals not doing so well. I can't recall if you had any hard and/or consistent algae problems like we have. I'm wondering if ours are doing so well because we have so much nutrients in the water fueling the algae that it's also fueling the sponges and corals? Just a thought. Anyway, I still think your tank looks awesome. You may have lost some of the yellow and oranges but you have really gained a lot of wonderful coralline algae! :)

Carla, I think everyone gets those colors down in the sand against the glass. Ours looks like a color combination similar to all the algae problems we have had......red slime, brown and green. Guess it adds interest to the front of the tank. :)

BTW, the little crab you have next to the condy is most likely an anemone crab. They form symbiotic relationships similar to the clownfish and anemone.

Bob, by your description of the little fish (without a picture) I was thinking more like a spotfin goby. The yellow line does not have a spot on it's dorsal fin according to my picture book.

[bobt2]

lossman, your right, it doesn't have a spot but the stripes and colors are close. it's not a spotfin, no stripes

[BrianPlankis]

Totally forgot, nice pics Pat! I love seeing pics of those brains. Your TBS tank is looking great. I just wish I could come over and flip over that beautiful arch ;)

Brian.

[patsan]

Originally posted by CirolanidHunter
Totally forgot, nice pics Pat! I love seeing pics of those brains. Your TBS tank is looking great. I just wish I could come over and flip over that beautiful arch ;)

Brian.

I'll let ya! We're not having any hurricanes here! It's safe.
I really still wish I could re-scape that tank. I do think I could make it look a LOT nicer than it does now.
Unfortunately, Bob said no, and I can't physically lift those pieces. They're just to heavy for me to do.:(

*Edit* Sally, no we haven't had all the algae problems like you've had. Maybe there is something to the extra nutrients and the corals living or dying.

[H2OLUVSME]

i think you have to have the right balance of nutrients and its hard to have "enough" and not get algae problems. you would have to provide the exact amount (of each) that is being consumed.


Carla, your fish sounds more like a blenny if it has eyelash looking things. im sure Sally could come up with some names from her FL fish books for you to search on. from what i hear barnacle blennies are plentiful in the gulf, and the actions you describe could be a barnacle blenny (i guess they really could describe a lot of blennies though :D).

the stuff in the SB is just bacteria or algae. neither are harmful IMO.


Pat nice pics! i love the progression pics.


just for Ss and Gs heres a before after of mine. this is after about a week with part 2.....after i got it organized and settled.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/freekfornature/TBS%20REEF/2005-02-17010_PB.jpg

and here is a shot from the other night.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/freekfornature/TBS%20REEF%20II/2005-9-19031_PB.jpg

here is a shot of the only thing ive added to my tank recently.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v618/freekfornature/TBS%20REEF%20II/LPS/2005-9-19074_PB.jpg


ive been really slack with my tank lately and ive payed for it. ive been working 10-12 hours for 7 days a week for the last month and a half and it shows. ive lost the star corals and brains from my TBS. the last few tube corals that were hanging on, passed. i lost my angel and clown. both were found stuck to a SEIO, but i really doubt that it could catch either of those fish if they were healthy. i think all of my deaths could be chalked up to lack of feeding. i just havent had the time. by the time i get home i practically fall in the floor until my wife drags me into bed, then i just get up the next morning and rush to work to wear myself out again.

[patsan]

Landon, just send me all your corals and I'll take care of them for you. problem solved! ;)
I'm still loving your red mushrooms, your pink hammer and your neon green candy canes. Probably most of your zoanthids too! :)

[jnb]

whew - i just read your thread to dr ron - you were mis treated - one guy (i assume it was a guy) needs a serious adjustment

anyway - I'll assume your water movement is good, you use a filter sock? if so clean it every day for a while. and feed dt every three days turning off heavy water movement when dt'ing for a while and maybe not so much (for a couple of weeks or so at least) maybe take your lights off line for a one hour less - and be patient - this is just my instinct based on what I read - let just a tad more food fall down near your vicious brittles perhaps

I have seen my algae drop down numerous new tank syndrome times - what a relief when it starts to happen - get a Kole Tang - they bite algae all day long and get along with everyone if your tank is less than 100 gallon try to get a smaller one (i don't want the tang police after me which I have noticed is almost impossible) - but they want/accept food from you once they eat your troubles away -.....


Originally posted by lossman
Pat, I was looking at older pictures of our tank from back when we put part one and two in. That's why I wanted to compare yours. It looks like you have lost the same kinds of sponges that we did....the tree and wood sponges as well as some tunicates and sea squirts. Our tank still looks so colorful probably because we had so much encrusting sponge covering the rock and this has survived and even spread. I'm also wondering about your tube corals not doing so well. I can't recall if you had any hard and/or consistent algae problems like we have. I'm wondering if ours are doing so well because we have so much nutrients in the water fueling the algae that it's also fueling the sponges and corals? Just a thought. Anyway, I still think your tank looks awesome. You may have lost some of the yellow and oranges but you have really gained a lot of wonderful coralline algae! :)

Carla, I think everyone gets those colors down in the sand against the glass. Ours looks like a color combination similar to all the algae problems we have had......red slime, brown and green. Guess it adds interest to the front of the tank. :)

BTW, the little crab you have next to the condy is most likely an anemone crab. They form symbiotic relationships similar to the clownfish and anemone.

Bob, by your description of the little fish (without a picture) I was thinking more like a spotfin goby. The yellow line does not have a spot on it's dorsal fin according to my picture book.

[lossman]

Originally posted by jnb
whew - i just read your thread to dr ron - you were mis treated - one guy (i assume it was a guy) needs a serious adjustment

anyway - I'll assume your water movement is good, you use a filter sock? if so clean it every day for a while. and feed dt every three days turning off heavy water movement when dt'ing for a while and maybe not so much (for a couple of weeks or so at least) maybe take your lights off line for a one hour less - and be patient - this is just my instinct based on what I read - let just a tad more food fall down near your vicious brittles perhaps

I have seen my algae drop down numerous new tank syndrome times - what a relief when it starts to happen - get a Kole Tang - they bite algae all day long and get along with everyone if your tank is less than 100 gallon try to get a smaller one (i don't want the tang police after me which I have noticed is almost impossible) - but they want/accept food from you once they eat your troubles away -.....

LOL, thanks for the backing. :) I admit, I get very defensive when people start questioning things I am doing when that was not even a part of what I was asking. Brett says I can be a b*&^%. LOL

Great water movement. Just added a larger return pump and a spraybar to eliminate dead spots behind the rocks. We also have 3 maxijets 1200's in the tank running on a wavemaker. We have a small ph down in the sump blowing directly on the area that is growing the red slime. It just makes the red slime wave nicely in the current.

We have filter socks which I have always changed out at least every other day. And we use RO/DI water exclusively.

The algae really is not a big deal. We understand it's all part of the new tank cycle. We're just trying to minimize it's affect on our tank.

Feeding is just enough for the two fish to eat in about a min or so and dt's about every three days. Once per week we target feed the corals, the stars and anemones.

My original question there was how do you know if you are feeding enough. No one deigned to answer that question, just addressed other issues that we did not consider a problem. Since everything in our tank is doing well and the algae has not completely taken over, We will assume that we are doing ok in that department. It's just nice to get confirmation.......when you can get it!!!!

The only tang in our biotope is the Atlantic Blue and even though we have a 150g tank, with 300 lbs lr, we are not sure there is enough room in the tank for the guy to get behind the rocks to hide once it grows.

Thanks again for confirming I did not overly overreact. :)

[patsan]

BOB'S KEYS ROCK PICTURES:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/Bob/108_0862.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/Bob/108_0857.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/Bob/108_0858.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/patsan/Bob/108_0856.jpg

[H2OLUVSME]

Bob is that some sort of gorgonian in the first and second pic?

looks like a lot of plant life on that rock shot :eek: what do you think now that the smoke has cleared a bit?

[lossman]

Bob!!! You got sea rods!!! You lucky dog!!! I had to go out and buy mine separately and now that TBS will no longer have the Tampa store, I will have to order almost all my stuff sight unseen. :(

Looks like you also got some halemida and some gracillaria. I can't recall if you have a tang or not, but if so, it will love the gracillaria. :) If not, if you have a mithrax or two, put them in with the Keys rock and they will clean it up nicely in no time. :)

It really looks nice so far.

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

We are stuck in Houston! All the roads are jammed, everyone is running out of gas and traffic isn't moving. Sigh. We are waiting for the 4pm hurricane update and hopefully it will continue to turn to the east.

It still seems more logical to stay in a house built to withstand 125mph winds than to be stuck in a vehicle on a roadway. This is really freaky and scary! I did get some lumber and all the east and south side windows are boarded as are some of the west side. About 1/3 of windows covered, there just wasn't any lumber to be found.

Brian

[lossman]

Brian, you will all be in our thoughts and prayers. We wish you the best and hope this hurricane ends up making landfall at one of the least populated areas. Take care of yourself.

Sally

[Jocko]

Wow thats some fine keys rock! I should stop being so prejudiced against it.

What's this about TBS getting rid of the Tampa store? Is it because the keys is going to be the only rock source for a long time and it is so far form Tampa?

[lossman]

Originally posted by Jocko
Wow thats some fine keys rock! I should stop being so prejudiced against it.

What's this about TBS getting rid of the Tampa store? Is it because the keys is going to be the only rock source for a long time and it is so far form Tampa?

Not really, they have had a horrendous year due to red tide and all the storms and it seems they can't get the stock to keep at the store nor do the have the personnel to man the store since they have to spend hours driving down to the Keys and back for rock for their shipments. I will sorely miss them and hope they will be able to perhaps open again next season.

On another note, our ac crapped out today. It's WARM here!!!! :(

[bobt2]

my impressions on keys rock. when i first opened the boxes it looked bland, of course i was trying to compare it to gulf. big mistake! the sand is a finer grade{ some turbo snails and 2 4" serpent star hitchhickers] the rock has some cup and tube corals, but not a lot. less coraline and only a few sponges and bivalves.only the 2 big pieces have plant life, and yes i have a beautifull sea rod. also have a fish hitchhicker. no crabs yet and some light clicking. all in all i'm VERY HAPPY. one of the problems with gulf is no place to put corals, and after all this is supose to be a base for that purpose. i wonder what pt 2 will look like. richard always saves the best for for than

[H2OLUVSME]

Bob, im glad you like what you got. im looking forward to more pics ;) and of course part 2 :D

Sally, is a "sea rod" in the gorgonian family?

Brian, i will be praying for you and your neighbors. good luck!!

[lossman]

Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
Sally, is a "sea rod" in the gorgonian family?

Yes, if I am not mistaken (and I certainly can be!!) his sea rod is like mine, a warty sea rod. This is an Octocoral, a eunicea calyculata. I have mine up at the top of the tank where it gets good flow. Mine has a small brain and some sponges as well as a couple of feather dusters on it. When it feeds, it's tentacles stick out making it really fuzzy looking. The calyces (the round parts where the tentacles come out of) have a green center on mine. My sea rod bleached a bit at first but has since regained it's tan color, although it does have a couple of dead branches on it. I'll try to get a decent picture of it later.

[bobt2]

sally i could be wrong too but my id is plexaurella,corky sea finger or slit-pore sea rod. if you have sprungs book its on page197

[lossman]

I don't have sprungs book. I'm looking at Reef Coral Identification - Florida Caribbean Bahamas by Paul Humann & Ned Deloach. Mine is definitely not the slip-pore as my apetures are round, not slit or elliptical. But it's definitely a sea rod. :) When I picked it out, I asked Mark at TBS what it was and he said it was a eunicia. If yours has the elliptical openings, then yours is more likely the plexaurella. Either way, I love it!! :)

[bobt2]

they appear elliptical to me, hope it survives the cycle. with so few sponges it should be an easy one. after 48hrs amm is at .4

[lossman]

Mine really perk up when I blow stuff off the rocks and get all that detritus into the water column.

[bobt2]

108-0868 got this piece of sponge while diving today on long island. it's now in my local tank

[bobt2]

sorry picture didn't come thru.

[Stormtrker]

Sally I have the same sea rod as you do with round apetures. Thanks for the ID, I Googled the name eunicea calyculata and it is the same. It came with my part 2 Keys rock. It had several branch tips that were bare and I feared these would die but it is slowly growing new "tissue" to cover these areas and also growing a new branch out from the base.

Bob, I had a lot of plant growth on all my Keys rock which I ended up pulling off most of due to not liking the look. Some of it has since regrown just enough that I really think it looks good. I especially like the red,feathery plants that are regrowing. I have been having a lot on new sponges showing up-dark reds and oranges especially.
Carla

[bobt2]

i'm thinking of pulling some off one of the rocks. the other i'll leave alone for now

[lossman]

I have been corresponding with TBS about the fish in our biotope and red tide and this is what he had to say:

"Those fish are most likely from the Keys, very few fish are collected from the gulf, and actually nothing is being collected as the gulf is DEAD for thousands of square miles, we went for a look last week about 10 miles out, not one living thing...there will be no more sponges gorgonians, nothing any more for years, people just do not realize how bad the situation is, which is why we had to regroup......"

"see here
http://www.tbsaltwater.com/redtide/

spread the word as the gulf is history from near Naples to Hernando beach and out to 50 miles offshore.....our rock survived, but we are going to give it some time to come around, but the red tide is still here and worse with the west winds from the hurricane....

when the dead fish litter the beach again and the tourists go away, then maybe there will be some attention to this disaster, is apoptolitic...<spelling>?....unbelievable........if people could see this they would be horrified, but they cannot see it like the hurricane damage...."

[lossman]

Here's a picture of our sea rod. The sponges and little brain came attached to it.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/516/79191Img3610.JPG

And here is a shot of our ricordia that got destroyed by a peppermint shrimp. It was left with just about 3 polyps. I put it down in the refugium and just recently brought it back to the main tank. It has really regrouped!!

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/517/79191Img3609.JPG

Here's a before shot of the same ricordia.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/517/79191Img3533.JPG

And here's a shot of our two condys. The new baby is to the lower left of the big one. See the little white tentacles peeking out just below Harley?? :)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/512/79191Img3608.JPG

[lossman]

Where is everyone lately? This thread has been so slow for a long time! Guess we need to have someone get some new corals or something to keep it going!! Bob, how does your rock look today?

I'm giving the fish a cloudy day today. Our ac is out and am waiting for the repair service to get here. Got to keep the tank temp down.

[Stormtrker]

Sally, Did you buy the baby condy? Do our big condys ever split? I have ordered several saltwater books from Amazon and can hardly wait to get them-Reef Invert.,Marine Fishes,Aquar.Corals. These are coming via USPS. I ordered some supplies from Marine Depot and UPS returned pkg to MD as not able to ship to my area. UPS site states MS coast now has full UPS service. MD did call me and left message they were going to try reshipping per UPS but were crediting me all shipping costs-I had chosen standard ground. That is one of the reasons I like dealing with MD.

Another question guys, my tank parameters show 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, 25 nitrates. Part 2 has been in tank 35 days. We were without power 16 days after hurricane and were able to run pumps,skimmer, and lights 3-4xday for 1 hr each time during this outage. I have done a couple of water changes of 10 and 15 gallons since power returned. Is this nitrate level to be expected at this time as part of the cycle? I have not added any life to the tank other than what TBS sent and don't plan to until nitrates down to at least 5 or lower.
Carla

[bobt2]

the water is crystal clear. amm is about .3-.4ppm.still trying to id the fish but no luck yet .

[lossman]

Carla, yes we did buy the little condi. It was just so pretty we could not resist. I tried to place it well away from the big one but it had a mind of it's own and worked it's way over to it's present spot. Neither one seems to bother the other. I don't think that condis split, but I could be wrong.

The nitrate cycle is perfectly normal. Our nitrates were absolutely horrid after our second part which we received in April. We've only now been able to get them down under 10!!

[ljcaswell]

Hi Guys:

Hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread. I need some ID's from my Part II TBS Shipment.

1. I think this is a Christmas Tree Worm:

http://homepage.mac.com/lcaswell/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-09-23%2012.40.38%20-0700/Image-FB456C6A2C6711DA.jpg

2. Two animals here. I think the top left animal is either a cup coral, or a barnacle??? No idea about the bottom right one.

http://homepage.mac.com/lcaswell/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-09-23%2012.40.38%20-0700/Image-FB4594602C6711DA.jpg

3. Is this a leather coral?

http://homepage.mac.com/lcaswell/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-09-23%2012.40.38%20-0700/Image-FB465B212C6711DA.jpg

TIA

Lance

[ljcaswell]

4. These are Chicken Liver Sponges??

http://homepage.mac.com/lcaswell/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-09-23%2012.40.38%20-0700/Image-FB4670912C6711DA.jpg

5. No idea what this is...

http://homepage.mac.com/lcaswell/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-09-23%2012.40.38%20-0700/Image-FB45F9342C6711DA.jpg

6. Or this...

http://homepage.mac.com/lcaswell/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-09-23%2012.40.38%20-0700/Image-FB46202E2C6711DA.jpg

Also, Richard from TBS included two anemones with my critter shipment. I wasn't expecting them, so have no clue how to care for them. One is a Condy Anemone, the other is a Flower Anemone, according to Richard. The Condy looked great yesterday and this morning, but has now sucked all his tentacles in and sulking. The Flower has lodged himself between two rocks, and is hard to see, but looks better than the Condy at the moment.

[bobt2]

ill give you what i know. #2 upper left, cup coral lower right tube coral #3 sea rod{soft coral] #5 tube coral #6 feather duster worm. are these on keys rock?

[lossman]

The top photo looks more like a horseshoe feather duster. I have one this color in my tank too.

2. - top thing is hidden cup coral. bottom one looks like tube corals

3. not sure about this one. If no one else comes back, I'll browse through my Florida books to see if I can tentatively identify it.

4. again, uncertain but we all have some of them

5. those again look like tube corals....a bit bleached out. They might come back to their nice brown color.

6. not sure exactly what you are looking at there but I do see a nice feather duster and some halemedia

The condy will eventually find a place that it likes. I think the flower anemone will too. Place them where you want and if they like it, they will stay. I found our condy does not like a lot of flow on it, but needs some flow in order to eat. If I turn the power heads off and hand it a piece of silverside, it can't get it to it's mouth until the power heads are turned back on and it gets some flow going around it.

As for the condy sucking all it's tentacles in, it will do this from time to time. It's pooping. :) As it gets better settled in the tank it will do it less and less. Mine did it every day precisely at 8 am for about a week. Then only once every several days or so. Your flower will do the same thing.

[ljcaswell]

Originally posted by bobt2
ill give you what i know. #2 upper left, cup coral lower right tube coral #3 sea rod{soft coral] #5 tube coral #6 feather duster worm. are these on keys rock?

Thanks for that. #6 I was looking at the big white blob, not the feather duster.

Yes, Keys rock.

[krajacich]

Originally posted by ljcaswell
Thanks for that. #6 I was looking at the big white blob, not the feather duster.

Yes, Keys rock.

I think the white blob is a sponge in #6. I agree with all the other IDs posted so far. Looks like you got some very nice rock. Enjoy it and post lots of pictures :)

[krajacich]

BTW I think in picture #3 is a Mermaid's Fan (the macro-algae in the center on the bottom).

[ljcaswell]

Originally posted by lossman

6. not sure exactly what you are looking at there but I do see a nice feather duster and some halemedia
[/B]

I was actually looking at the big white blob. What's halemedia?


The condy will eventually find a place that it likes. I think the flower anemone will too. Place them where you want and if they like it, they will stay. I found our condy does not like a lot of flow on it, but needs some flow in order to eat. If I turn the power heads off and hand it a piece of silverside, it can't get it to it's mouth until the power heads are turned back on and it gets some flow going around it.

As for the condy sucking all it's tentacles in, it will do this from time to time. It's pooping. :) As it gets better settled in the tank it will do it less and less. Mine did it every day precisely at 8 am for about a week. Then only once every several days or so. Your flower will do the same thing.

Thanks for the advice. I have some Silversides coming today. BTW...he's done pooping now :)

[ljcaswell]

Originally posted by krajacich
BTW I think in picture #3 is a Mermaid's Fan (the macro-algae in the center on the bottom).

Cool - Thank you.

[krajacich]

Originally posted by ljcaswell
I was actually looking at the big white blob. What's halemedia?

Halimeda is a macro-algae. It will help to reduce your nitrate levels or keep them low. It also uses calcium within it's cells so keep your calcium levels up. I have some in my refugium and it's pretty easy to care for.

[ljcaswell]

Originally posted by krajacich
Halimeda is a macro-algae. It will help to reduce your nitrate levels or keep them low. It also uses calcium within it's cells so keep your calcium levels up. I have some in my refugium and it's pretty easy to care for.

Is that the white blob, or the green plant?

[krajacich]

Originally posted by ljcaswell
Is that the white blob, or the green plant?

It's the green plant. Do you have a full tank shot?

[ljcaswell]

Originally posted by krajacich
It's the green plant. Do you have a full tank shot?

Got it. Thanks. Yes I do:

http://homepage.mac.com/lcaswell/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2005-09-23%2012.40.38%20-0700/Image-FB45BB652C6711DA.jpg

I'm fighting a microbubble issue at the moment.

[krajacich]

It looks great! I really like the cave on the right side of the picture.

[BrianPlankis]

Hey all,

Nice pictures! Glad to see new TBS rock pictures. On #6 that MIGHT be a dying sponge, keep a close eye on it, if it starts to shred apart you will want to remove it.

Hurricane Rita is making her final approach, should have rain and tropical storm force winds in the next 3-4 hours. We still have power and the tank is experiencing the storm too :) No lights for them today or yesterday so the temp won't go up.

One weird thing to report is my mantis is going nuts. He has been pounding away for the last 2 days...like 30-40 clicks an hour, before the last two days it was 10-20 a day. I wonder what it is doing? Maybe it is finally making a home and I can capture him. Up until now he has been running around the tank exploring.

The TV says we might not even get hurricane force winds here, that would be a blessing. It is breezy out now, but nothing strong yet.

Don't know when I'll lose power, I'll report back in when I can, but looks like the nasty stuff will miss us and I am here to keep the tank stable.

OH YEAH! Just before I turned my lights off, I noticed two blue filter feeding worms on my FLR.com rock. They might have been there the whole time, but I don't remember seeing them. Is it possible they are breeding? THAT would be cool.

Brian

[lossman]

Brian??? I thought you had evacualted to Houston??? TV says this is going to be a serious rain maker. It's going to come on land and not go too far...just meander about. Please stay safe!!! Your tank is secondary to your life and that of your family!!! We wish you the very best and come back on line to send us pictures of those blue worms as soon as you can. :)

Thoughts and prayers coming your way!!!

Sally & Brett

[krajacich]

Stay safe Brian!

My guess would be that he couldn't make it very far out of Houston. The traffic jam seemed incredible. A ton of people only made it about 50 miles from their houses before turning around because they wouldn't make it any appreciable distance...figuring they'd be safer in their house than in their car on the highway. I hope everyone makes it through ok!

[lossman]

Carla...is this what your condy looks like now?? :) Scroll back a bit and you will see the same shot of both condys out and about. Our large condy decided to "take a break". :)

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/512/79191Img3614.JPG

The upside of this shot is now you can see the beautiful encrusting red sponge that we love, that the big condy has pretty much obscured when she is out and about.

[bobt2]

great full tank shot! why i was worried about keys rock, i'll never know. still 1000% better than anyother rock i could buy.

[lossman]

Bob, I am soooo glad you like it!!! I would have felt horrid if you had said "why the heck did I spend my hard earned money on this crud!!!"

On another note....I need a chiller!!! Both for the tank and me!! Our ac has been out for 2 days. Carla, I am so sorry for what you went thru with Katrina, but......I'm FREAKIN HOT AND SWEATY ...and we haven't even had a hurricane to blame it on!!! Sheesh!! Every time I call the ac repair people they say, another 45 mins...another 1/2 hour. I'm running out of patience!!! And I am sweating..I hate to sweat.

[bobt2]

hard to believe but after 72 hrs the amm is already at zero after a high of .4. the nitrites are up to .2. i'll keep an eye on it for a week than bring on pt 2 {if they can get it}

[Stormtrker]

Sally my condy looks just like your large one. I keep reading everyone say that the condy draws it's tentacles in and "envelopes" itself when it gets ready to poop. Can't say I've ever typed that word before!:D Well twice now over period of about a week I have seen mine get really puffy and eject long strings of brown mucus like stuff. Really yucky looking. During this time it stays fully out with tentacles fully inflated. What is this? Also I have always been careful not to let the tentacles touch my skin, do these sting? I use long tongs to feed it.

Sally I agree it is miserible to be without AC. During the time we were without electricity we used a 12V small fan hooked to a marine battery at night just to be able to sleep. Hope you get that AC fixed soon!
Carla

[lossman]

Carla, the brown icky stuff is poopies. And no, I have never let the condy's touch me, only cause I have heard they can sting. If Josh at TBS will only use a net to gather these things, who am I to go against the grain? :)

Carla, check out our gallery. We have pics of the condy getting all wound up. The first time I saw this I thought she was tieing herself in knots and was going to die. I did my best to unwind her, only to find her wound up the other way!! Brett kept saying, Sal, leave it alone!! If it's meant to die, it will, if it's meant to live it will!! Me, I said, heck!! If I can help it live I will do my darndest!! No way will I set back and watch it die!! LOL

As for the fans, all our available fans are aimed at the tank in an attempt to keep it from over heating. The canopy is up and the big fan is aimed in there. Am I uncomfortable?? You betcha!!! Is the tank and inhabitants doing ok, gawd...with 6 fans blowing on it, it should be!!!! LOL

[bobt2]

on the condys, mine touches my hand often when i clean the tank. no stings.

[lossman]

Ahhhh....what a chicken I am!!!! :)

[ratherbediving]

It looks like the worst of the storm failed to hit Houston. I am sure it is pretty bad, but not nearly as bad as we feared. Of course, those in Lake Charles are probably feeling it.

I hope we learn something from this. It seems even though the gulf coast was more prepared than they were for Katrina, there were still a lot of problems with the evacuation...

What do you guys think of the condys? I have heard some people express some misgivings about the condys that TBS ships... they felt that it wasn't a good idea to ship an anemone (which they feel is tough to keep long term in the best of circumstances) to a new setup that has to cycle, go through algae blooms etc associated with a new tank...

[lossman]

We had a terrible cycle. Nitrates up around 80 and very slow to fall. Up until just a couple of weeks ago, we could never get it below 15. Our condy thrived. Most anemones would never survive a TBS cycle. Condys are tough little critters and most of them have no problem surviving the cycle. Just my 2 cents. :)

[H2OLUVSME]

i know some of you guys use IO. i got a minute to read a bit this morning and ran across this thread of interest. (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251507) i didnt read very much of it, but you IO users may want to.

[jnb]

that thread looks to be two years old, no?


Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
i know some of you guys use IO. i got a minute to read a bit this morning and ran across this thread of interest. (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=251507) i didnt read very much of it, but you IO users may want to.

[H2OLUVSME]

Originally posted by jnb
that thread looks to be two years old, no?


opps :lol:

it was at the top of the forum. since it was a RHF post i figured it had some merit......i read the last page and the first, never looking at the dates :eek: sorry

[jnb]

well, i think its good your brought it up - if something is fishy instincts should make one test the new water before adding it

Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
opps :lol:

it was at the top of the forum. since it was a RHF post i figured it had some merit......i read the last page and the first, never looking at the dates :eek: sorry

[lossman]

Originally posted by jnb
well, i think its good your brought it up - if something is fishy instincts should make one test the new water before adding it

"if something is fishy "

:lol:

[Scuba Oz]

Originally posted by jnb
that thread looks to be two years old, no?

Yeah that was a couple years ago, but a few have made some more claims that had nothing to do with the old batches Randy was talking about. It is a good read and something to watch for. Knock on wood I have never had a bad batch of IO and thats all I use for the tanks.

Seems like we dodge the bullet so to say here in Houston. We still are getting heavy rains and flooding and of course TS winds. Power is out across the city (not here yet) but I know its out at the office, so I hope those battery backups last till the road is clear to get there.

[jnb]

with so many posts - I bet you are a good person to ask - I don't want to get into an overwhelming debate by posting in a more public place and I thought some of the tbs'ers may benefit -

My lfs has some corals don't know details but they are stressing due to problems associated with Katrina, etc - I just switched over to MH's and believe or would like to try an bring some of them to a more healthy state - little frags. Is there some dipping I can do to get them off to a good start before I place them in my tank?



debateOriginally posted by H2OLUVSME
opps :lol:

it was at the top of the forum. since it was a RHF post i figured it had some merit......i read the last page and the first, never looking at the dates :eek: sorry

[H2OLUVSME]

Originally posted by jnb
with so many posts - I bet you are a good person to ask - I don't want to get into an overwhelming debate by posting in a more public place and I thought some of the tbs'ers may benefit -

My lfs has some corals don't know details but they are stressing due to problems associated with Katrina, etc - I just switched over to MH's and believe or would like to try an bring some of them to a more healthy state - little frags. Is there some dipping I can do to get them off to a good start before I place them in my tank?

are they SPS frags?

it really depends on what they are. you could have REALLY mixed results depending on the corals. I've tried the same thing you are thinking about a few times. I've had success and I've lost all of them.

if you do a very slow acclimation you will have a better chance than by doing a rushed acclimation. IMO, the looses were from unrecoverable damages, and/or stress from changing habitats again (and while in a stressed state).

you need to do everything as if you are buying a $1000 coral that you cant afford to loose. I would get some type of temperature controlled container (cooler) for the ride home. try and minimize the amount of drastic temperature swing from the LFS to your house. also, make sure you have them temperature controlled while acclimating. do a slow drip acclimation and make sure they are stable in the bag. a half closed bag or a coral upside down is just going to get more stressed. make sure you do a slow drip acclimation. I would draw it out as much as possible (as long as temp is stable).

what I had success with was getting the corals bagged up and letting them float in the LFS tank. I then went and paid for them (half price) while they remained in the tank. I went and got my cooler and put a bit of tank water from the LFS's reef tank. this gave me a bit more water volume (= a slower temp fade) and helped keep the bags upright in the cooler. as soon as I got home I put them into the sump for temp acclimation to my tank. to keep them a constant temp I opened the bags in the sump and set a drip line from the display tank. I had a real slow drip (like 1 per second or so) and let it take like 6 hours for the bags to fill. I wouldn't normally drip this slow unless it was a shrimp or star, but I feel it is very important for the changes to an unhealthy (or stressed) coral to be very slow and gradual.

after they were totally acclimated I tried to place them in the same location as they were at the LFS in relation to light. I try and recreate flow also, but its near impossible to mimic everything 100%. I find that corals receive more damage from lighting increases than flow changes. keep that in mind. you may need to shade the corals or put them on the bottom of the tank, if you have more intense light than the LFS.

if you dont cut corners and use common sense you could get a steal on some free or cheap frags, but keep in mind they may have already sustained irreparable damages and my have no hope of survival. of my rescue projects I don't have any SPS. I got two different freebies from the LFS to regain color and begin to grow, only to die a rapid unsuspected death after not much time. I do have 2 zoa colonies that were almost obliterated and beautiful frogspawn that was near dead at the LFS. I also had some candy canes and a torch that I revived and both are doing well in other peoples tanks.

good luck!!

[H2OLUVSME]

oh yeah as far as dips....

this is personal opinion. I think dips are another unnecessary form of stress to corals. some people have tremendous luck (good and bad :D) with zoa and flat worm dips. IMO, if you don't see any outside predators than the dip probably wont do much good. on that note really inspect the corals and make sure its not a massive flat worm attack that is hindering them. in this case I would do more research on the flat worm dips. I have only done fresh water dips to my clams because of pyramelid snails. I don't have any knowledge or experience with any chemicals other than the mixed results I've read about here on RC.

you could ask Brian about his dipping techniques. he is pretty predator scared (rightfully so!!) and has taken a lot of precautions to keep any nasties out of his tank. I think hes dipping almost all of his new additions. but, I'm not sure if any of his methods/mads/chemicals apply to sickly corals though......just still thinking aloud :D

[jnb]

thanks - stressing sometimes - like the most basic thing - like tempature - i was just shocked to see dr ron calls for temp to be 82-84 when i thought i had this all straight in my head - i wonder what the temp is at the tbs sites - you know - i caqn answer that the last dive I did the temp was 87 on one dive 100 ft and 89 on the second dive 20 feet - in the Keys

this ain'tt easy. iam going down to the beach and have a beer - before the next storm rolls in - cheers

Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
oh yeah as far as dips....

this is personal opinion. I think dips are another unnecessary form of stress to corals. some people have tremendous luck (good and bad :D) with zoa and flat worm dips. IMO, if you don't see any outside predators than the dip probably wont do much good. on that note really inspect the corals and make sure its not a massive flat worm attack that is hindering them. in this case I would do more research on the flat worm dips. I have only done fresh water dips to my clams because of pyramelid snails. I don't have any knowledge or experience with any chemicals other than the mixed results I've read about here on RC.

you could ask Brian about his dipping techniques. he is pretty predator scared (rightfully so!!) and has taken a lot of precautions to keep any nasties out of his tank. I think hes dipping almost all of his new additions. but, I'm not sure if any of his methods/mads/chemicals apply to sickly corals though......just still thinking aloud :D

[lossman]

Originally posted by jnb
thanks - stressing sometimes - like the most basic thing - like tempature - i was just shocked to see dr ron calls for temp to be 82-84 when i thought i had this all straight in my head - i wonder what the temp is at the tbs sites - you know - i caqn answer that the last dive I did the temp was 87 on one dive 100 ft and 89 on the second dive 20 feet - in the Keys

this ain'tt easy. iam going down to the beach and have a beer - before the next storm rolls in - cheers

LOL, Dr. Ron and I got into a "disagreement" on another thread about both tank temp and the keeping of hermits. :) Our tank normally runs between 78 and 82, sometimes up to 84 if the day is excessively warm. He insisted that our tank was too cool and that I was pretty much slowly killing my inhabitants by keeping the water so cold. They certainly could not thrive at that temp!! Anyway, I told him our inhabitants were not only living, but thriving at that temp and I was keeping it there. He got a little miffed. I got a lot of private feedback on this stating they did not think that Dr. Ron was correct and I was even given a series of articles where Dr. Ron and someone else debated this out and it did not seem to me that Dr. Ron won this debate.

We all know how temperatures can vary from region to region. I would look at the sea temps of the region where most of your livestock comes from, take a variable from there....highs and lows...and use that as a guide as to what temp you should be running your tank. Also need to take into account the depth of the seas where the livestock comes from.

As for hermits, I was told they were eating the animals in my sand bed. Those animals were being depleted by the hermits and I was harming the health of my sandbed by keeping hermits. I, again, disagree. Anyway, there are a ton of pros and some cons about hermits. I'll keep mine, thank you very much.

Don't get me wrong, Dr. Ron is extremely knowledgeable and I really value most of his advise. I just don't think any one person can be an expert on every aspect of reefkeeping....there is just too much change and evolving going on to keep up with it all.

BTW, I'll join you in a beer...just not on the beach...it's hot enough here in my personal sauna!!!

[H2OLUVSME]

well I've run my temp at 83* fro the winter (enclosed canopy) with very good growth and results. I have been running since the beginning of summer at about 79-80* (with the lid off). my temp was getting up to about 85 once summer set in, but once I took the door off of my canopy it stays 5* cooler. my corals are still nice and colorful, but I see a decline in the growth and a decline in SB activity. I will be making arrangements to get my temp back up to 82-83 range shortly to see if things go back. there very well could be some other variable that is making the change, but ill soon find out.