No "cycle." Have I done it all wrong?

[Dudester]

In addition to reading here on RC, I've been following the advice of a local experienced reefer. Here's what I've done -- please let me know if this is OK and what I should do about the absence of my nitrogen cycle.

system = 30 gallon cube, closed loop via Mag12, Remora HOB protein skimmer, lighting via 250W DE MH but this has not been used as of yet (still building the light mount)

8/11 - tank filled with water and salt
8/24 parameters (** all test kits Salifert**):
temp 79.9
SG 1.027
pH ~8.2
Ca 410
KH/alk 7dKH/2.52 mEq/L
NO3 0
added small pieces of cured LR to seed tank
8/25 saw aiptasia on LR, removed LR from tank and kept them in H2O
added RO/DI to reduce salinity
SG 1.024
added 20 lb CaribSea Aragamax Select sand and 20 lb CaribSea Arag-Alive sand
installed Remora protein skimmer
8/28 cleaned LR with tooth brush and added to tank
parameters:
temp 78.6
SG 1.025
pH ~8.2
Ca 390
kH/alk 7/2.52
NH4 < 0.25 mg/L
NO3 2 mg/L
8/29 bought and aquascaped 28.2 lb Tonga LR
added activated carbon to skimmer return chamber
installed auto top-off (Tunze osmolator with kalk)
8/30 parameters:
temp 82.2-82.8
SG 1.026
NH4 < 0.25
8/31 parameters:
temp 82.2-82.8
SG 1.025
NH4 < 0.25
9/2 parameters:
temp 81.1-81.5
SG 1.025
pH ~8.2
Ca 380
kH/alk 9/3.2
NH4 < 0.25
9/6 added 1.4 lb Tonga LR rubble to avoid “barebottom� corners caused from overcirculation in those areas
parameters:
temp 82-82.6
NH4 < 0.25

I know it's running a little hot, but my fan should arrive in the mail tomorrow.

So here's my question (finally!): I realize that I probably should have added some raw shrimp or some other source of ammonia production early on, but I figured the die-off from the LR would take care of it. Unfortunately (or fortunately) there may not be much die-off since the rock was almost completely cured, just a slight odor. Additionally, I've been running my skimmer, so that's been removing protein sources. Should I add a piece of raw shrimp at this time, or just wait it out? Does the fact that I haven't seen an ammonia spike mean that there's enough bacteria in the tank to handle the current bioload? I don't plan on adding any fish or corals for a while.

Sorry for the novel, just wanted to include all of the variables for your consideration.

[kybreos]

I would skip the raw shrimp and just add a single fish that you want and a hardy one, and just wait a few more weeks before you add anything else, then just start adding slowly.

[Tom_Nev]

Looks pretty good. It's not uncommon for a tank to almost insta cycle with established live rock. Question though, you keep reporting NH4, now I'm no chemist but isn't this ammonium? (ionized ammonia?). I'm more familiar with NH3, NO2 and NO3 (wondering if you meant one of these).

Temp of 82 is OK (I'd be concerned if it was 85+ consistently) stability is more important (large drops in temp over short periods most stressful). In my latest set up (7/31) I never really saw an ammonia spike (maxed at .5 @ day 3, down to 0 day 4 with another rise to .25 on about day 6). I also never saw any nitrite, my nitrates went to about 60 ppm and are now <10. I started with one Yellow Tail Blue Damsel day 8, now have a dozen or so snails, half dozen scarlet hermits, a Coral beauty, and 2 Lysmata shrimp (added over about two weeks, followed by testing several times after each addition).

[Dudester]

kybreos -- Thanks for your response. I think that's a great idea, although it's a small tank (only 30g) and my plan is for a reef tank with lots of corals, clams an anemone and only about 4 fish. I don't want to add any fish until the system is "mature," maybe in a month or two.

Tom -- Thanks as well. Regarding the "NH4," yes I'm referring to ammonia. I do have a chemistry minor from college and you are correct in that NH4 is ammonium. The Salifert test kit box, however, reads "Ammonia NH4" and I therefore used this nomenclature to avoid confusing anyone. Guess it backfired on me!
For the reasons stated above, I don't think I want to start adding fish yet. I'll probably have a pair of clowns (for my daughter), a goby, and a flame angel (or not, depending on if it likes to eat coral polyps) or a scarlet hawkfish. I'd hate to use one of these fish as my supply of waste for the water, as it would be like making it swim in New Orleans water. Since I added live sand and high quality (nearly) cured LR, do you think it's already cycled or "skipped" the cycle altogether and is ready for some new inhabitants to create some bioload? Should I "beef up" the bacterial load by adding a raw shrimp?

When when should I add my cleanup crew? There's really no algae to speak of since my light's not yet hung. The only algae in the tank is dying/sloughing coralline from the LR.

Thanks in advance

[jedimike]

Since the cured live rock already has bacteria present, I would just start adding inhabitants... slowly of course.

[Agu]

If your rock is well cured and handled properly you won't necessarily have a cycle. However you didn't actually post how much rock you've added (live or base?). You only mention small pieces and rubble.

If you haven't added all the rock you're not ready until the rock is in the tank and ammonia and nitrite are nil.

If the rock is in the tank you can check the nitrifying ability by adding a pinch of food daily and testing for ammonia. If no ammonia is present after a few days you're ready for a clean up crew.

[Mrs.kbmdale]

When we first started our "reef" which was a 10g, with a skilter filter :lol:, my husband ran a dirty filter from the fw tank in the sw tank for a couple of days before adding anything. Then he added the lr, let the filter run for a couple more days then took it out or replaced it, not sure which. Anyway, point is, we NEVER had one iota of a cycle. *disclaimer* -> This is NOT advice for anyone just starting, sometimes my husband is weird, and for some reason, he thought it would work and it did, for him.
You can go ahead and add a crab and a coupla snails, wait a couple weeks, then add a fish, wait at least a week, then add another, so on and so forth.

FWIW,
Brianna:rollface:

ps. what agu said too! :)

[Dudester]

Agu, if you look above after the date 8/29 it says "bought and aquascaped 28.2 lb Tonga LR." I'm not being a wise guy, I can see how easily that could have been missed since I didn't highlight the dates or format the list of data very well. At any rate, I don't think I'll need more rock for filtration. 28.2 lb aquascaped rock plus 1.4 lb small pieces plus the small pieces from my friend's established tank; that puts me at around 30 pounds which is probably a good number since I would like lots of space for corals. The rock is all premium stuff, straight from Tonga to our LFS where it's placed in large vats and skimmed aggressively. It came with beautiful coralline algae and I even got a mussel that cruises my tank. That being said, I'll try out your advice and add food to the tank. Any specific recommendations? Thanks.

Brianna, thanks and that's another good option, but since I want to order my cleanup crew and add it all at once, I think I'll go with Agu's advice.

[Agu]

I missed it twice :o .

You don't need anymore rock .......

Any type of fish food will work. What you're doing is testing and feeding the bacteria. You'll also be feeding any pods or worms in your tank.

For a final test rubberband a piece of shrimp to a rock and drop it in after lights out and remove what's left in the morning. (You might be surprised at how much is gone :eek1:, don't grab any bristleworms ) If that doesn't bump the ammonia you're good to go.

ime,

[Dudester]

I tried Agu's advice and last night I rubber banded a piece of shrimp (about 1.5 cubic cm) to some rock. I saw plenty of pods and a bristleworm scurry away at 5am when I shined my flashlight on it. Since the shrimp appeared mostly untouched I left it there. Tonight it remains a similar size, and my ammonia is still at < 0.25 by the Salifert test kit. Either I'm "good to go," or there's a problem with my test kit.

(you out there, Habib?)

I hope it's the former and maybe I can start adding my cleanup crew. I left the shrimp in there to feed the pods and I'll recheck ammonia tomorrow.