Newbie needs some help!!

[rsnoddy]

Okay let me start by saying I am not an actual "newbie". I have been into salt water for about the last 6-7 years. I started by converting my 55 gallon fresh water over by purchasing a protein skimmer and a couple of marine lights (don't even remember what they were). I bought about 75 pounds of live rock a blue tang, a maroon clown, and some assorted mushrooms and such. All was good! I had that for about 2-3 years?? Not really sure... Bought a new house and decided to upgrade to a 75 gallon DAS tank. Bought it used out of the paper for around $350. Transferred everything from my 55 gallon and away we went. Well 3-4 years later my nitrogen levels went thru the roof and I could not get them under control. I swear that I got some bad live rock that was infested with bristle worms that took over my tank and began stinging my anemones making them throw up there food. I sat and watched them do it at night after my lights went out. I would go into my office with a flash light and watch them do it. I tried using traps but that did no good. These things were so long they could go all the way into the traps to get the food and still get out with no problem. We are talking 7-9 inches long. Well I think after my first anemone starved to death that started my tanks downward spiral. Yes I know I did not pull it out fast enough. I sadly sat and watched as each of my tank inhabitants perished no matter how many water changes I did to try and correct the nitrate levels. Anyway the tank has been sitting for about the last 6 months to a year. I have been keeping it going only for the sake of all my live rock. I am now ready to get back into the hobby but this time I want to go with a drilled/tapped tank utilizing a sump/refugium which brings me to being a newbie. I have done TONS of research regard this matter and this is why I am posting. I would like some feedback from veteran members that have this type of set up so I can do it right from the start.... More to follow....

[bertoni]

[welcome]

Good luck with your new tank!

[rsnoddy]

I have been watching the papers without much luck. I find a nice tank but it isn't drilled. I find a drilled tank but the user wants it picked up in the next day... I could go on and on with my woes but I won't. I have found a "whole seller" in my area that is willing to work with me BUT the product lines they carry are not really ones I am familiar with. Thus my first question. Are any of these manufacturers good, bad, etc? Here they are:
Tank: Oceanview (can't find anything on the web regarding them) 140 gallon drilled in one corner, 1 drain and 1 return. Dimensions 60x18x30. Is this any good?
Stand and Canopy: are just standard pine. The stand is for a 100 gallon and the canopy is 12" front door
Sump/Refugium: Sea Life systems 300 gallon (they said this was the biggest that would fit under the stand) don't know dimension or if it comes with a prefilter or not.
Skimmer: Was not quoted one but told them I needed one. They said they carry sea life or trigger. I can not find any information for sea life.
Pumps: A rio 2500 for the chiller and a magdrive 1200 for the return
Chiller: 1/5 hp JBJ up to 180 gallons
Lights: This is where I REALLY need help! They are quoting me 2x400 icecap ballast with 2 400 watt PFO systems 10k bulbs
Reflectors: 2 36" PFO's
Calcium reactor: ESV drip?
UV sterilizer: Current USA
Reverse osmosis: Kent marine
I need any and ALL input I can get!! I really think the lighting they quoted me is overkill BUT I would eventually like to get into SPS and want enough light. With a 30" depth 250 watt is what I have been told. I want actinics as well so I need to factor that in.
I would appreciate any and all comments and or information that I can get. Like I said I want to do this right from the start. I don't want to make any mistakes by purchasing bad products.

[rsnoddy]

Thank you Jonathan Bertoni for the well wishes!!

[rsnoddy]

What are your thoughts on the refugiums that utilize the bioballs? I have heard that bio balls increase nitrogen levels BUT I will be utilizing a refugium with colepera (spelling?) which I would think would offset the nitrogen?? Aren't bioballs good if you have a tank with a lot of fish? Not that I plan on having a "lot" of fish but I do plan on having a few...

[bertoni]

I don't know anything about that brand of tank, but I prefer tanks that are at least 24" high, and have more depth than 18", to give more room for a 3-D reef structure.

Are you sure you need a chiller? Evaporative cooling can do a lot.

I would skip the UV filter for the time being. It might help a bit with water clarity, but it's not a necessity.

For circulation, you might look at closed loops at melevsreef.com, and also consider the Seio or Tunze Streams devices.

For skimmers, I would suggest euro-reef.com, or look at the ASM skimmers. Deltecs are nice, but very expensive.

These articles are worth reading, IMO:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=550860

[bertoni]

We crossed mid-stream...

I would avoid the bio-balls, but they are good for heavy fish loads. The Caulerpa might be able to deal with any nitrate problems. That's tough to predict.

[rsnoddy]

Thanks so much for the response Jonathan! The tank is actually 30" deep. Maybe I posted it wrong??? I like it wide, narrow and tall. I hate the short ones. That is why I am concerned that I get the right lighting to be able to penetrate 30" of water for SPS corals.
I have looked at euro-reef but my whole seller doesn't carry them. If sea life is garbage then I just won't buy from them. That is why I started this thread to try and find out if the items I was looking at buying were any good.
I would think with the M.H. that the heat would be a factor? You think I can get away without doing any cooling? Like I said I want this "right from the start". I would rather go "overkill" than chance losing my tank again. That is why I was going with the UV sterilizer as I know it will help to keep the algae down. Every little bit helps! I want this to be the most "bullet proof" tank that I can possibly build!!!!!

[bertoni]

For that depth, you might want 400W MH, but I'd be tempted to stick with 250W and let the bottom of the tank be a bit dim. That's a personal choice, though. In CA, electricity is definitely big-ticket. For the same wattage, the heat factor is close to the same for any lighting, so I'd ignore that for the moment.

You can get euro-reef skimmers at marinedepot.com and other vendors. That's what I'd do in your situation.

I'm skeptical that UV will help with algae problems in general. Sometimes people get a "greenwater" phyto bloom that UV is good for handling, but in general, I think it's not going to help.

I'm away for the weekend now. Enjoy your research!

[rsnoddy]

Thanks for the input Jonathan! Have a nice weekend! Hopefully someone else will pick up where you left off?!?!?
I guess I will hold off on the uv and chiller for the time being. I can always buy them later. I guess that sea life does not build a decent skimmer so I will go with euro-reef. So that just leaves the sump and the lighting... that is unless anybody has any input on the tank.... I am monitoring the thread for input :)

[rsnoddy]

Does anyone have any input regarding the rio 2500 and the magdrive 1200? I have heard from a few people that the rio's really arent that good??

[ERICN]

Hello rio's are crap i would shop more online also look into the sump/protien skimmers on aguauniverse.com 300g sump would be great for that tank and its like $200.00 for sump/skimmer combo

[rsnoddy]

Thanks for the input EricN. That is what I heard that the rios were crummy. Thanks for the url for the sump! This is exactly what I am needing. Some input! :) I am off to go take a look at aguauniverse.com

Thanks again!!

[jgoodrich71]

Oceanview does make a good tank. They are made in Biloxi MS, less than 1 hour from me, so that is about all that is available in my area. But yes, they are very reliable tanks. They can custom make any size, the only limit is 30" tall.

[rsnoddy]

Anybody have an opinion on the Trigger system TS150 protein skimmer versus the ASM G3? (beckett jet versus needle wheel technology)

I have decided to go with an Oceanic 150 gallon 72L x 18W x 29H. Now I am trying to decide whether I should get 2 400 watt metal halides or 3 250 watt MH???? I am also trying to decide if I should go with moguls or HQI's? They bulbs are the same price... It is just the difference in the price for the housing. Does anyone know if there really is any real difference between the two as far as color spectrum goes?? Last question.... Whether I go with the 400's or the 250's.... should I use 10k, 14k, or 20k bulbs? I like the "white" look the 10k's give off BUT I want the best spectrum of light to eventually be able to have SPS's.

As always any and all comments and or info is greatly appeciated!!

[bertoni]

I've never heard of that skimmer, sorry.

Either of the two lighting setups would likely be okay. It's really up to you. This site might be useful:

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/

I think the Iwasaki 6500k 250w bulbs are the most efficient, but you might not like the coloration, and you'd want to add actinics, I would guess. They're fairly yellow.

[rsnoddy]

Thanks for the link bertoni!

After much more research I think I am going to go with 2 250 watt MH (pfo system ballast) utilizing 10k XM's. I like the color and the price of the XM's. I will suplement this with 2 actinic vho's (one on each side) of the MH's. Hopefully this will be enough??? Opinions????
I have read every forum I can come across and studied every web site I can find. I am about to pull my hair out! I want enough light without "over doing" it.
Now I am trying to understand tar versus electronic. It is driving me crazy!! I have given up on trying to figure out the difference between mogul and HQI. I can not really see a difference between the two other than the fact that you have to have a pendant to house the HQI's. My tank will have a 12" canopy so I can't see the need for housings (pendants).... Again any opinions would be greatly appreciated!!!

[rsnoddy]

I also wanted to ask another question that I hope someone might be able to answer. I was planning on running my skimmer (still haven't decided which one but I am thinking about going with the trigger systems ts150) with a mag-drive 1200 and then have a mag-drive 1800 run my return pump to the tank. I think the 1200 is fine for the skimmer BUT I do not know if I am over killing it on the return pump? I am looking at the TS30R Refugium
http://www.triggersys.com/sumps.html
The skimmer can be found on the same web site.
This refugium will be used on my 150 gallon oceanic.

[rsnoddy]

One last question then I will call it a night as I have been at this for the last 4 hours. The oceanview tank I was looking at only has one drain/return in the corner where the oceanic has two drains/returns (one in each corner). Does anybody have any input as to whether you need one or two drains/returns versus just the one in a 150 gallon tank? I know the duals would drain more off the top BUT is it really necessary?
As always any and all input is GREATLY appreciated as I am ready to start getting this stuff on order!!!!!

Thanks again!

Rick

[bertoni]

I'm not really a plumbing person, so I can't help much with pumps and the like. Having two overflow is nice but not necessary. Up to you.

I would go with 3 bulbs, rather than two, for that length of tank. You'll have some dim spots with just two, but you might not care.

Electronic ballasts can be more quiet than the tar ballasts, but I'm not sure there's much difference otherwise, although specific models can vary in efficiency. You might get longer bulb life with electronic ballasts; I've forgotten.

[bllfish]

I think the two overflows would allow you to get more flow (current) in your tank. You would be able to run a larger pump and not worry about the amount of water coming from the tank. I only have one overflow with a 1" drain and 3/4" return so I am limited to the size of pump I can use on my return. I would rather have had the two overflows with two returns so I could eliminate powerheads (extra heat) for flow and motion in tank.
Just had another idea. How about using one overflow for refugium and one for mehcnaical filtration?

[spe934]

Originally posted by rsnoddy
One last question then I will call it a night as I have been at this for the last 4 hours. The oceanview tank I was looking at only has one drain/return in the corner where the oceanic has two drains/returns (one in each corner). Does anybody have any input as to whether you need one or two drains/returns versus just the one in a 150 gallon tank? I know the duals would drain more off the top BUT is it really necessary?
As always any and all input is GREATLY appreciated as I am ready to start getting this stuff on order!!!!!

Thanks again!

Rick

It really depends on the size of the drain. With only one drain on your tank, you might be pumping water back up faster than it can fall down. IMO, a drain on each side is much better (or even two in the middle) vs one in the corner. My reasoning for this is that with two, you are drawing water more evenly from your aquarium, thus helping to stablize temperature and water conditions, remove waste more evenly, and IMO it just looks more "balanced". As far as lighting (one of the biggest debates in the saltwater world right now, along with BB vs sandbed) www.hellolights.com might be a good place to check too. They were very helpful when I purchased my lighting from them, they are an RC sponsor, and they will give you an RC discount :) (always a good thing in this hobby). Also, for a skimmer, you might want to check out a blemmish model from www.h2otropicals.com Good luck and glad to see you are taking your time, researching, and asking questions instead of buying a bunch of crap then going "NOW WHAT?!?!?!"