What direction do you feel the CVRC should take?

[firefish2020]

In light of new information, I feel it is important to take a poll on the matter of the establishment of the government and future direction of the CVRC. You do not need to leave a comment, or give your name only your vote. This is not intended to be a shouting match or argument-fest but you have free speech, I will ask you however to not use any profanity or personal attacks in this thread as it will accomplish nothing and I will have it closed by the administrators.

<b>You will have two choices, you have only 15 days to VOTE the poll will close at that time:</b>


1. The club remains as it is, uncomplicated without the need for any special governing body. This option still leaves open the prospect of a “non-profit� status for the club. The ONLY reason this status is needed IMO is to insure the continuation of the “four auctions� which we will be allowed by law to have under our own terms and without a licensed auctioneer. We have been receiving more offers from some of our suppliers, and individuals / speakers who are willing to help us to support the club as they feel we are doing something “unselfish and good for the community�. Under this option membership will remain 100% free and all donations of work, funds etc. will be on good faith for the benefit of the club� family�. We will need to move the meetings to a bigger local at times of auction, and special events. Control of the CVRC will reside with the council and myself for as long as they or I wish to remain in power, I will then personally pick my replacement; this will not be open to debate.

<b>If you think “we�, (the council and I) have acted in the best interest of the club cast your vote for option 1 now.</b>

2. The club seeks to create a governing body comprised of a quorum who will take into consideration the members needs and wants. The council will vote for new agendas, ideas, laws proposed, etc. and I will cast the deciding vote/decision. With this option there will be a membership due expected to be paid by each individual yearly. There will also need to be officials who are in charge of and responsible for complex issues such as money management, manual labor, etc. whatever is needed to establish the workings of meetings. There will be a need for meetings of the council members at least several times a month to discuss the business of the club. There will be a constitution drawn up that will hold members to certain laws and terms of behavior. Control of the CVRC will reside with the council and myself for as long as they or I wish to remain in power, I will then personally pick my replacement; this will not be open to debate.

<b>If you think “we�, (the council and I) have NOT acted in the best interest of the club, cast your vote for option 2 now.</b>

NOTE: With either option we will also likely see more “table sales� in the near future rather than actual auctions, and a shift toward more education with real speakers, and demonstrations.

[bneal3]

NOTE: With either option we will also likely see more “table sales� in the near future rather than actual auctions, and a shift toward more education with real speakers, and demonstrations.

Ron I really like that idea!

[firefish2020]

Thanks, I really would like to see it as well, and encourage it in future meetings. I don't think we need to focus primarily on just auctions to get prime corals for good deals it's just my opinion but I think it would be fine to set a decent and fair price on frags and sell them at that value at a table sale.

[1package]

I do not have the time to be in a governing group in the forseeable future but would like to see the club grow, take part in the activities and think that I could perhaps take part in it sometime down the road.

I will say that I think that it is great that Ron has such a big interest in this "Club". It takes people willing to donate their time and efforts to make it happen - we owe our thanks.

Just a couple of things, the descriptions of the 2 options are just a little bias.

For example:
1. Option 1 - uncomplicated - implying option #2 would be.
2. Option 1 - non profit - implying option #2 would not be.
3. Option 1 - no dues required, implying Option #2 - dues required.
4. Option 1 - "unselfish, good of the community" as if Option #2 is different.

For Example:
1. Option 2 - Membership dues are required - in reality this is an option either way but not a necessity.
2. Option 2 - Individuals in charge of complex matters - labor, money - as if no one does any planning or work at this time.
3. Option 2 - members must meet several times per month - this is far from accurate.

As mentioned............free speech............

It really does not matter one way or the other the biggest problem that I see with trying to establish a club is..........."Control of the CVRC will reside with the council and myself for as long as they or I wish to remain in power, I will then personally pick my replacement; this will not be open to debate."

Anyone who does not have a problem with this does not have a mind of their own - no offense to the sheep. I am sorry reality check. Once again past and present efforts should be appreciated, but they do not entitle eternal ownership.

What type of Government is this? Perhaps take a poll as to who thinks that anyone should be President or on a council for as long as they want and then name their own successor.

Yeah, yeah, I know - "form your own club", "you do not have to participate..........blah, blah, blah........".... heard it all before.

Just an opinion, not intended to upset anyone.

[LowCel]

I don't want to be rude but honestly I do not believe there is ever going to be a way to make everyone happy. It just isn't possible, I wish it was, it just isn't.

Personally I like it the way it is, simple. I don't like complicated things. I have enough complicated things in my life without a reef club being one of them. On top of that we all have a life. There are not too many of us that are willing to donate the time that Ron, Maria, Mary, Barry and a couple of others put into this club. I'm honestly grateful that they are willing to do the work, it makes it very easy on the rest of us. Since they have put so much time and effort into this club I have no desire to ever try to take the leadership away from any of them.

As far as having officials it won't necessarily change things. People still will not like how things are being done, that's just human nature. I just don't understand why we have to change something that seems to work. I mean people are learning, people are getting frags cheap, some people are making a few bucks but basicly everyone has the opportunity to have a good time and meet others with similar interests. Why risk ruining all of this with a government. Once we do that all we are going to do is give everyone more opportunities to point fingers.

As for the space thing, yes it is crowded. I don't even care for crowds that much. However I can deal with it for three or four hours once every couple of months.

Okay, done ranting.

* This was directed at no one, this is just a snipet of my thoughts.

[firefish2020]

I feel I have acted in the best interest of the club, and I am not finished. When I am I will find someone who will devote just as much time or more time than I have or can at this time. I do agree with Lloyd on his statement, if I didn’t know who I was or the council was I would be very afraid of a club, organization, bakesale etc. run with such stringent degrees of control.

However we are not just a club, we are a group of friends and family who have united under one common goal. We desire to make our hobby better and in so doing try our best to preserve the natural reefs by learning to propagate and trade amongst ourselves and with new friends which we freely invite to attend our meetings in hopes that they will see what we are all about and join us in our cause. Without this "control" it is allready evident that the club would be split apart from the inside and the area would loose a valuable resource to all reef keepers. That is why I made my statement and it is why it is not up to debate (yet).

The basis of this club were built upon trust, and brotherhood not upon politics. I realize that day will come soon, how we deal with it is being worked out.

I also agree with Bruce in his statement that we can never expect everyone to be happy with everything we do. I can only ask for you're continued patience in this matter till we get everything resolved even I do not know what’s going to happen.

Thanks for the input guys :)

[1package]

I agree with Bruce, 100% of the people happy 100% of the time is not going to happen. I think we should always aim as close as possible.

Do not get me wrong, I also think Ron has done a great job, put in a lot of time that others either have not or were not willing to do, not to mention is a great source of information.

I also think that as there once were no auctions, fewer members, no speakers, etc... there now are. I hope it will continue to grow to the point that there are sponsers and guest speakers.

[firefish2020]

We are working on getting a reputable well know speaker regardless of any of this.

I think you will be surprised.

[bneal3]

Originally posted by firefish2020
I feel I have acted in the best interest of the club, and I am not finished. When I am I will find someone who will devote just as much time or more time than I have or can at this time. I do agree with Lloyd on his statement, if I didn’t know who I was or the council was I would be very afraid of a club, organization, bakesale etc. run with such stringent degrees of control.

However we are not just a club, we are a group of friends and family who have united under one common goal. We desire to make our hobby better and in so doing try our best to preserve the natural reefs by learning to propagate and trade amongst ourselves and with new friends which we freely invite to attend our meetings in hopes that they will see what we are all about and join us in our cause. Without this "control" it is allready evident that the club would be split apart from the inside and the area would loose a valuable resource to all reef keepers. That is why I made my statement and it is why it is not up to debate (yet).

The basis of this club were built upon trust, and brotherhood not upon politics. I realize that day will come soon, how we deal with it is being worked out.

Ron I think you have a wrong idea. I do not thinking anyone in their right mind would want to take over the leadership. You are doing a great job. IMO they want a voice. A forum to help lead CVRC to bigger and brighter things.

No harm intended here! Make love not war! LOL

Bruce

[firefish2020]

LOL

Thanks, either way there will be no war or divission. We will move forward one way or the other united in our intrests or fail.

[essop3]

I'm sure non-profit status will require strict book keeping no matter who is in charge.

I vote to keep things as they are. Just for bigger issues ask for opinions here and you guys (council) can then make a decision. I think it would make people feel more of a part, but retain a certain future. Keeping everyone posted a little on inner workings would lessen tension too. In that other thread, after Ron said what was going on behind the scenes, notice how it started moving ahead?

[firefish2020]

Actually Im working on the non profit status as well. I think I may have located some help with this in which we don’t have to file forms, etc.

This also doesn’t matter which decision we choose I personally would like to have this status if we can get it hassle free. With this we can afford guest speakers, hold bigger events, and let the club grow, as it should.

[bneal3]

If you ever have to do the forms let me know! I have done them for 3 different groups! Just long no much else to it!5013c is just a blast. LOL

Bruce

[firefish2020]

Thank you if we need to go that route I will let you know.

[firefish2020]

Now about the business of being heard;

How about we devote a set time to discuss some of the major concerns of the assembled group before beginning our meetings. Maybe 15 minutes to hear various ideas from the group that the council and I will take into consideration and either vote upon, or hold an open vote from time to time. The point is that there are well over 60 + people at the meetings and as long as membership is free they deserve to be heard as well as anyone here on this forum does or has been .

[Nitewind]

Ok guys I do believe you are making this way more complicated than it really has to be. I was the Vice President of Family Support Group for my husbands National Guard Unit for two years. All we had to do to be considered Non-profit was have $1000 or less in the bank and a governing body in place. If you have less than $1000 in the bank the government could care less about you. You do have to establish an account in the organizations name and you do have to have officers. I recommend requiring two signatures for any withdrawls. Also, there is a way around only having $1000 in the organizations fund. You can have more money in the organizations name as long as the money is earmarked for a specific purpose such as a guest speaker or a rare coral and the money is kept separate from the general asset fund. There are no forms to fill out, no government disclosure as long as that magic number is not exceeded.

As for whether or not Ron has done a good job or not. I think he has done an excellent job. He has devoted numerous hours of his own time and money to this organization and has been given alot of grief in return. Can all of you say that you have done same? Would you guys have stuck with this organization if you had went through some of the abuse that he has endured? Ron truely has a desire and passion to save the corals. He really believes in what he is doing and wants to help each and every one of you grow in your hobby. If he had his way everyone would have a reef tank. I truely believe he loses sleep at night over the fact that we are losing our natural corals.

That is just my two cents. Take it for what you will.

[1package]

Nitewind,

First post, first month, seem to know a lot of Club history - nice to see you came out of your shell.

Welcome to Reef Central.

[bneal3]

Nitewind! Very well said! Welcome to CVRC!

[firefish2020]

She knows a great deal about the club history indeed, she was instrumental in getting a response from the Dept. of Agriculture concerning the auction problem, and has helped at a few of our earlier meetings with setup and bagging. She has kept up with the board for a while now; I invited her to post the information on the non-profit procedure to let you all know there are many ways to proceed. She is also a bit overly protective and not shy about how she feels on matters at times but that’s just how family can be.

[firefish2020]

How odd?

It would seem that our online club is bigger than previously expected. If you feel it was important to vote here I invite you to add your name to the official member roster by clicking on the following link. I only have about 20 or so listed on the official mailing list as of today. However according to the poll, that means more than ten members are unaccounted for so far.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=534628

[mcox33]

It is strange I only got personal info on 14 on line people yet we have 32 votes. hummmmmmmmmmm does that mean 16 people don't want to take part in the auction

I'll post tomorrow the on line names of the people who have sent info if your name is not on the list please send it as soon as possible.

thanks

[mcox33]

if you are not on this list please send your info to chemicalvalleyreefclub@hotmail.com

01. phljess
02. essop3
03. lowcel
04. odoprelude
05. pattyanderic03
06. MattG
07. Shikaroka
08. H.crispa
09. coralreefer
10. 1package
11. bneal3
12. wvdaisy
13. keithw
14. nodwell
15. firefish2020


Not necessarily received in this order

[snowstar]

I've been away from the boards for several weeks now.... but I really do appreciate:

NOTE: With either option we will also likely see more “table sales� in the near future rather than actual auctions, and a shift toward more education with real speakers, and demonstrations.

Even though I'm a complete idiot at the auctions as I try to create an sps tank....

it really is about education.... and the propagation of ideas and concepts so that newer and sometimes older folks can come away from meetings with a better "grip" on reefkeeping concepts and ideas of what has worked for others in the past and what has been or is "today" percieved as best of practice.

Thanks for working through this - because the last thing I want to see is

Thanks, either way there will be no war or divission. We will move forward one way or the other united in our intrests or fail.

For really failure by the hobbiest is not an option - attempts to save the reefs have to take a priority - over politics, personalities and preferences -- this is accomplished not just through auctions but by sharing ideas and knowledge....

That is just my 25cents...

[1package]

I agree with Snowstar about the table sales. I am in a similar situation, very long time marine fish, very long time soft coral, long time LPS, short time SPS. The advantage of the table sales, opportunity to talk about specific corals with someone who is having success with that particular coral. I just did not think this type atmosphere would ever really be available under current situation.

I always have an opinion on things but I do realize some are putting in a lot of their effort and time now, something that I can not do. I do not have a problem with the direction, just would like the possibility of a role if/when time (work) permits so I speak up now about direction, just looking ahead.

At this time I do not have the time to help out, reason for offering up money and/or livestock, equipment - I am sure that regardless of direction Ron will steer it clear of major obstacles. Although our opinions often vary, I greatly respect his commitment.

My new/revised 2 cents.

[firefish2020]

I may never agree with everyone on everything 100% but will always take into account what any of you have to say. Lloyd I believe you are helping and have tried to help with the positive direction of the club. Both you and I have taken things in the past personally that we should not have. I appreciate any help you are willing to give to further the forward momentum of the group. Im going to quote you again :)

<b>"...The advantage of the table sales, opportunity to talk about specific corals with someone who is having success with that particular coral..." </b>

This is what I would like to see one day as well. We can offer aquacultured corals healthy as they may be but unless we know what environment they were raised in we are just as likely to watch them fail in our systems. That’s why I am asking everyone participating in this auction to please make a note of the conditions your frag(s) were raised under.

Water flow
lighting
position

Anything you can think of to help insure the survivability of the frag(s) in new systems.

Thank you everyone, lets try to make this a fun and educational meeting and lets try to get ideas like this out there to make our future meetings even more successful.

[coralreefer]

Originally posted by firefish2020
How odd?

It would seem that our online club is bigger than previously expected. If you feel it was important to vote here I invite you to add your name to the official member roster by clicking on the following link. I only have about 20 or so listed on the official mailing list as of today. However according to the poll, that means more than ten members are unaccounted for so far.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=534628

Ron
I was kind of worried about this. The way RC is set up anybody can vote and there are people out there that will vote in any poll
just for the heck of it but it's possible we have members that didn't want to be notified of special shipments etc. (although I know I appreciate it :) )

hummmmmmmmmmm does that mean 16 people don't want to take part in the auction

Mary it could. I probably won't take part in the auction this time. Well at least buy/sell but I sent my info anyway so you could include it. We may have folks not coming specifically for the auction or not coming to this particular meeting so they didn't respond.

[firefish2020]

Either way I knew the results before I posted the poll.
Everyone want's to be right after all :)

Soon we'll have a real live poll and there won't be any danger of it being inaccurate.

[coralreefer]

Originally posted by firefish2020
Either way I knew the results before I posted the poll.
Everyone want's to be right after all :)

Soon we'll have a real live poll and there won't be any danger of it being inaccurate.

:beer: