can U run 150DE bulbs in 175DE fixture?

[s1rk1118]

I purchased a 48"combo fixture with 150 DE's and pc's. I received and email that they were going to upgrade me to a 175 DE combo fixture at no additional cost. Due to the lack of variety of 175DE's, I'm concerned about future bulb selections, and the possibility I may not like the 20,000k bulbs that come with the fixture. So, what problems will I encounter replacing 175 DE's with 150's?

[Purple Haze]

no such thing as de 175's, only single ended.

[moonpod]

There are some fixtures that call themselves 175wDE b/c they utilize a ballast that is a 150/175w ballast. That being said Purple Haze is correct. Technically speaking, in the industrial lighting world, 150w DE is what exists, not 175w. Marketing is really quite an amazing thing.

[s1rk1118]

I failed to mention this is an Odyssea (Chinese) fixture. According to Aquatraders (seller), Coralife has just come out with a 175DE also. Aquatraders did say I could use 150's, but I would like second opinions. I'm hoping it does have a 150/175w DE ballast.

[moonpod]

edit.

[alljap]

I once used Icecap 175 to run 150w DE bulb. I think most Electronic 175w ballast will fire DE 150w bulb just fine.

[The Grim Reefer]

It just marketing hype. The ballast might overdrive the 150 watt lamps a bit but so does a 150 watt HQI ballast.

[PaulErik]

Is the ballast magnetic or electronic?

There are only a few lamp manufacturers overseas that offer 175-watt DE metal halide lamps. These lamps are usually designed to be operated with a modified ANSI M57 or pulse start ANSI M137/M152 ballast.

If the fixture comes with a magnetic 175-watt ballast (built to ANSI M57, M137 or M152 specs) it will actually underdrive a 150-watt DE metal halide lamp because of the different lamp amperage/current requirements.

175-Watt Metal Halide Specification:
Operating Arc Current: 1.5A
Operating Arc Voltage: 130V

150-Watt Metal Halide Specification:
Operating Arc Current: 1.8A
Operating Arc Voltage: 95V

Using a magnetic 175-watt ballast will cause the 150-watt lamp to operate at a different color temperature and will produce less light output. This is very noticeable even to the naked eye.

Electronic ballasts work in a different way than magnetic ballasts. Some electronic 175-watt ballasts will overdrive a 150-watt lamp. A few are designed for both wattage ratings without underdriving or overdriving. These ballasts usually have a small switch located on the ballast.

Actually there would be little to no difference between a standard and a HQI magnetic 150-watt ballast. Neither ballast will underdrive nor overdrive the lamp. Both ANSI specifications have the same operating specs but different starting requirements.

ANSI M102 (Standard Pulse Start) Specification:
Operating Arc Current: 1.8A Nominal RMS
Operating Arc Voltage: 95V Nominal RMS (85V Min / 105V Max)
Min Starting Pulse Height: 3000V
Max Starting Pulse Height: 4000V
Min Starting Pulse Width: 1@2.7kV
Min Starting Pulse Repetition Rate Per 1/2 Cycle: 2
Pulse Position (Lag ballast requirement): -26 to +20 degrees of peak

ANSI M81 (HQI) Specification:
Operating Arc Current: 1.8A Nominal RMS
Operating Arc Voltage: 95V Nominal RMS (85V Min / 105V Max)
Min Starting Pulse Height: 4000V
Max Starting Pulse Height: 6000V
Min Starting Pulse Width: 2@3.6kV
Min Starting Pulse Repetition Rate Per 1/2 Cycle: 1
Pulse Position (Lag ballast requirement): 60 to 90 / 240 to 270 electrical degrees

I personally would try to stick with the 150-watt setup if possible. 150-watt DE lamps are standardized around the world, are widely available and will be around for years.

Hope that helps

[The Grim Reefer]

Paul

Here's a link where someone posted a picture of the ballast

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=5480933#post5480933

[PaulErik]

The ballast in the picture is a magnetic 175-watt ANSI M137/M152 ballast. I personally would avoid using 150-watt Double-Ended lamps (ANSI M81) with that ballast because the lamps will be operated below specification limits.

[modemfox]

Then where would you get 175 DE bulbs? I have the same dilema.

[Ebisan]

I have the same fixture from Odyssea. There is no such thing as a 175W DE bulb. I've been using the Phoenix 14K 150W DE bulb and it works great even though it is being overdriven. I just replaced it after 7 months. The bulb still looked pretty good when I removed it.

[modemfox]

when you replaced that bulb did they both look correct? The bulbs that come with it aren't the correct color and one is always different then the other.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by Ebisan
I have the same fixture from Odyssea. There is no such thing as a 175W DE bulb. I've been using the Phoenix 14K 150W DE bulb and it works great even though it is being overdriven. I just replaced it after 7 months. The bulb still looked pretty good when I removed it.

Look at the post above from Paulerik who is in the lighting business. It appears there is a 175 watt DE and if you got a fixture designed for them you are basically screwed until the lamps catch on.

[Ebisan]

The light from the Phoenix bulb is slightly blue. That could be the shift. Can someone post a link to a 14K or 20K 175W DE bulb? I searched Google but can not find one.

[Ebisan]

I was wondering if I could switch out the magnetic guts of the ballast and replacing it with an electronic 150W/175W ballast like this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/ARO-Electronic-Metal-Halide-Ballast-150-175W_W0QQitemZ7706557063QQcategoryZ46314QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm assuming this should work if I hook up the old wires correctly to the ballast.

[PaulErik]

You can switch out the ballasts. The only 175-watt DE lamps available in the US that I currently know of are the Odyssea lamps. So far I only know of two lamp manufacturers making these lamps. One manufacturer is in Korea and the other is in China.

North American companies importing and selling overseas light fixtures will most likely start importing more of these lamps at a later time for these fixtures.

[The Grim Reefer]

If you do swap the ballasts I'd hang on to the old one's. Might come in handy if the 175 watt lamps catch on. I'd rather have the more powerful lamps assuming you could find one you like. I did a search and couldn't get a hit for a 175 DE.

[Ebisan]

Thanks for the info. I was wondering if the stock Odyssea bulb was a true 175W DE or was it just a 150W. The bulb from Odyssea is 20K but on my fixture it was very white with no trace of blue. That's why I switched it out for the Phoenix 14K which is giving me a very nice blue tint to my tank. I might just switch back to the stock bulb for awhile and see if it makes a difference in coral growth. Most of my corals, anemone and clam have been growing very well with the Phoenix bulb.

[modemfox]

I noticed they put the bulbs in with the little glass bubble down. I am assuming that like mogul bulbs this should face up because in every other fixture i checked it does. As soon as i flipped the original odyssea bulbs over they looked correct. Don't know what that might actually do or why the bubble is even on the bulbs to begin with. If someone else does please let me know.

[The Grim Reefer]

I have 250 watt DE halides and they can only be mounted one way. They have the nipple pointed up, and down. I thinkit was JB NY who posted about doing tests and he concluded there is no right way. Some were a little better up and some down.

[Dr.Karl]

ANSI M102 (Standard Pulse Start) Specification:
Operating Arc Current: 1.8A Nominal RMS
Operating Arc Voltage: 95V Nominal RMS (85V Min / 105V Max)
Min Starting Pulse Height: 3000V
Max Starting Pulse Height: 4000V
Min Starting Pulse Width: 1@2.7kV
Min Starting Pulse Repetition Rate Per 1/2 Cycle: 2
Pulse Position (Lag ballast requirement): -26 to +20 degrees of peak

ANSI M81 (HQI) Specification:
Operating Arc Current: 1.8A Nominal RMS
Operating Arc Voltage: 95V Nominal RMS (85V Min / 105V Max)
Min Starting Pulse Height: 4000V
Max Starting Pulse Height: 6000V
Min Starting Pulse Width: 2@3.6kV
Min Starting Pulse Repetition Rate Per 1/2 Cycle: 1
Pulse Position (Lag ballast requirement): 60 to 90 / 240 to 270 electrical degrees


So can you run 150w HQI on a ANSI M102 150w ballast?

[PaulErik]

A 150-watt HQI DE (ANSI M81) lamp will operate on an ANSI M102 ballast but may not start reliably because the starting/ignition requirements are different. It is best to consult with the lamp manufacturer if you want to use a ballast with a different ANSI code/standard than the lamp.