Here we go (I think)

[Schmit]

Well, I've been reading (and learning) and am moving along towards our first tank.

OK, to give a run down on equipment, (this tank (our first) is being set up with hanging off the back equipment as the glass is tempered... and well it is our first tank… going small/slow).

75 gal tank, double florescent top (one for each side) Sea Clone 1000 Skimmer, double reservoir filter, Thermal Pre-Set 200 watt heater, MarineMaster Saltwater Test Kit, Hydrometer, Thermometer (of course) and some ZipDrops (Chlorine/Chloramine remover).

Here is were we are at.

Got the Tank in place on its metal stand (still have to finish the outer wood work to make the bottom a cabinet).

Have approximately 3� crushed coral that has been pre-rinsed on the bottom.

Next we are going to add water (which we are going to use tap and Crysta1 Sea Marinemix due to being easier then trying to haul 75 gal of water from the store)

After mixing and adding the water to the tank we are going to let the tank run for about a week. This will be with just the above equipment running… this should bring the tank up to (consistent) temp, and allow the filter/skimmer to work. It will also give us time to get the water right. (Evaporation will be replaced with RO water)

While this is going on I plan on building a DIY Rock Cave/Structure (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=619579) that will be the center piece of the tank. I plan on having at least two separate “caves� (with 3 exits each) and numerous over-hangs (both above the sand and slightly below)

Once the water is stabilized and everything is within acceptable ranges then I’m going to add some live rock. Let that cycle with the tank for a week (or longer as needed) then start to add a few fish or simple corals.

Now… what am I missing/doing wrong? All comments/suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

[jgm_1970]

Scmit, I too have yet to setup my tank, and I have also read alot, as for the crushed coral, some would advise against it, and say to use aragonote sand instead, and as for the use of tap water, there are too many, impurifications in it, that would lead to a hard time getting you tank setup correctly, they suggest reverse omosis and deionized filtered water for best result, most of your local fish shop sell it for anywhere from .30-50 per gallon unmixed, then 50-80 premixed salt water,
here is a link I found of intrest
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/saltwater/index.html

[jgm_1970]

Schmit, sorry I mispelled your name

[dugg]

Howdy Schmit, Looks like you are about to bite the bullet. First off, are you on city or well water? All of the water i have tested around here is really pretty good. Tap water for mount dora is 140 ppm of TDS, but a well can vary depending on if it's a shallow well or drilled into the aquafer. If it's a deep well you are probably at around 150 to 160 ppm TDS (Total Disolved Solids). That is really not that bad, but it is better to use the RO/DI even for setup. You can pick up a nice system on ebay. http://www.watergeneral.com/aquarium.asp
This is a real good maker you can pick one of these up for around $100 to $125. Usually can find this brand on ebay. I would reccomend that you get one ten start up, but with only 140 to 160 ppm TDS you will be fine since you are doing fish only for a while anyway.
When you build the rocks be sure not to leave large open spots inside of it or they will cause problems with things settling inside there and decaying. I noticed you didn't buy a PH monitor yet, you will need one to know when the cement is cured. A test kit is fine for most testing, but with PH it helps you to know what everything else is doing by watching the daily trends as ph goes up and down throughout the day and night. Your Ph is different depending on what time of day it is, so a test of 7.95 in the early morning is not bad where if you get that same reading at 6pm then you have got a problem. Trust me that monitor is money well spent. Talk wayne into calibrating it for you if you can lol. He will get it perfect.
everything else sounds like a good start just wait more than just a week or 2 for the few corals. give it a month or two at least. If you get them too early, they will die guaranteed.

Also before you buy one, because everybody has done it lol, don't even think about a feather duster for atleast a year. They will not survive in a young tank. They need a very mature system to thrive. A few have made it, but most pop thier heads off and jump out of thier tube because the starve to death.

[zoomfish1]

To cycle the tank safely, add 3 or 4 damselfish ($5-$6) and let them start the nitrogen cycle. Damsels are about the only safe way to cycle the tank without the costly mistake of killing livestock because the tank is not cycled yet. Watch the ammonia go up and down with your test kit, nitrites peak, the nitrates take over. Once the water is stabilized, then you can take the damsels back for store credit and get a few fish you like. I have kept one of my damsels for 4 years, a nice(now quite large) black velvet damsel.

Good luck with the new tank. Just remember, in saltwater, patience always pays.

[Travis L. Stevens]

I will have to nicely disagree with zoomfish1. I say why waste all that money in buying damsels when you might not want them later. There is also the chance that they will get mean. Though I have one that is nice, and zoomfish1's seems to be nice (if he's kept it for 4 years.) But I would just go to your local grocery store and ask for about 2-3 raw shrimp (for a 75g) and tell them what you are going to do with it. They most likely will give it to you for free. When I worked at Reasor's in the meat dept in Sapulpa, I gave away lots of shrimp. 2 here, 2 there. Mainly to fisherman. They didn't care if it was going bad or not. Even if you do have to pay for it, 3 medium shrimp is only about .33 lbs and would cost you ~$1.50-$3.00 . But I see you live in Florida, so it might caust you .25 cents. Take the shrimp home and throw them in the tank and let them "rot". Give a little time and patients, and wah-lah! a cycled tank. Or better yet, just get all the live rock you want to stock your tank with and throw it in there as well and it too will eventually cure the tank. I say this just so we don't have to see any fish "suffer". I personally don't curse people for doing it, I just think its the more responsible husbandry to do as reef keepers

Okay, I'll get off my high horse.

[TheMcs]

Damselfish are the devil's work. Avoid them at all costs. Also, there are far more human methods of cycling a tank. If you're planning on LR, go ahead and add as much as you can when you set the tank up, it can get the cycle going.

[jaugat]

For once, I agree with Travis!!!!!

When I had my first tank, I went the sump route with bioballs etc. Yes, I didn't know any better. I remember reading a suggestion to urinate in a 5 gallon bucket and soak your bioballs in there before adding them to your tank. It seemed to make a little sense. No, I didn't have the stones to try it myself! There has to be a better way to introduce amonia to a system.

Might I suggest freshwater Mollies. I know that RR has a black one that has been converted to saltwater for over a year now. Cheap and you won't feel bad flushing a couple of them.

[zoomfish1]

Travis, I guess I am from the old school. I always cycled my tanks with damsels, then returned them to the LFS. Didn't consider that I was causing harm to them. I never lost any to cycling.

The one damsel that I kept was because I couldn't catch the **** thing after I put live rock in. He has turned out to be a good tank mate, however.

I have never heard about the rotten shrimp thing. Wives tale maybe? Don't know. BTW, is that a white horse?

[Schmit]

Ok... Well after reading JGM's post we stepped back and punted... we picked up two new large trash cans (we needed them anyway) and while I was at work my wife went and got 70 gal of Salt Water from Wayne's. Also got 5 lbs of live sand.

The plan was to wait until I got home (at 10pm) and add the sand and water to the tank however my wife couldn't wait and had it all done by the time I got home. Of course you couldn't see through the tank because of the sand/coral silt floating around (ever though she had used plastic bags to cover the sand/coral (which we had pre-washed) and poured the water into a plate on top of that). I hooked up the filters, skimmer and heater, made sure everything was working properly.

The next morning (yesterday) dawned bright and clear and the water in the tank had setteled somewhat (you could actually see to the back of the tank... though not side to side).

Low and behold the live sand had three worms (?) in it. Don't know what they are but they are orange and look like a small milliped. One (nessi) is about 1.5" long and the two littlle ones are about .25" long).

This morning the tank is totally clear. Nessi and the ittle ones are tooling around the bottom. Way Cool.

My wife checked leavels last night and everything is good... except the nitrites and of nitrates of course. We will be adding Live Rock later this week.

This is sooooo KEWL! We sit and watch our empty tank... but where others (friends) see only an empty tank we see a tank with life in it (Nessi and the ittle ones and some green hair stuff (one large clump and a 4 or 5 little clumps).

We are getting more and more enthusied about this... but we keep telling ourselvs... baby steps... Baby Steps. :) We'll get there... slowly... but we'll get there.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96761Clear_Tank_Sm.jpg

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96761Nessi___Grn_Hair.jpg

[dugg]

Looking Good!!!!!

[predatorpassion]

LOOKIN' GOOD!!! :D

[predatorpassion]

oops I didn't realize dugg already said that :o

[jgm_1970]

schmit, I was on the same path as you were, with the crushed coral, and such, then I did alot of reading,
your tank looks great, I can't wait till I get mine setup
Good luck

[dugg]

The worms are bristle worms. Some people like em some don't. I leave mine in the tank. I have witnessed my watchman goby eat them many times. The pistol shrimp will dig one up and drag him out of the sand and the goby has a feast on it. He really seems to like them too. There is a worm simular to these called a fireworm, that can be a problem, but all of the ones in Waynes sand are bristle worms. You usually only see fireworms at night, and they are more red instead of the pink color of the bristle. One sure way to tell lol, pick it up and see if it stings you. If it don't it's a bristle lol. Bristle worms do the tank an important service by eating detris from the sand and rocks, so if they survive the cycle they will help keep your sand bed clean, and if they don't then they will just help it cycle faster. That sand Wayne has is just busting with life so i'm sure you will have a fast smoothe cycle anyway.

Be sure when you get your rock that you press or dig them down to the glass, don't just sit them on the sand.

Also, i don't see any powerheads in there do i? You need to get a couple. The ones wayne sells are good, but i personally like maxijet powerheads. I have a MJ 1250 that has been going strong for 15 years. The ones Wayne has have an adjustable flow though, and that is real nice so i would recommend two MJ 750's or two of the big ones from Wayne. Without running a sump you really need some good flow in that tank, 2 HOB filters aren't close to enough.

[Schmit]

Hey Dugg,

Yeap, Powerheads are on the list along with the LR. Wayne gets in new live rock on Tuesday... this works out well as that is one of my days off. We'll be there bright and early to get the full selection and first pick. ;) :D

I know he has to freak out when he sees my crew come through the door. :rolleyes: My wife and I are excited but the kids just outwardly show it more (as you've seen).

[Schmit]

Well, we are moving along. Went in today and picked up 13lbs of live rock. Got a couple nice (at least we think so) pieces.

One piece we put on the left of the tank…

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96761Small_Left_LR.jpg

The other on the right side of it…

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96761Small_Right_LR.jpg

While we were there picking up and talking to Wayne the discussion kind of got into when we can get fist. The tank has been up and running for about a week with live sand. Wayne said it should be alright to get a few simple/inexpensive fish… so we got 3 Green Chromis’. I know, I know… probably too soon…. But what can I say.


http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/967611st_3_Small.jpg

Brought everything home and put in the live rock while the fish were still bagged floating in the tank. The tank now REALLY looked empty. We went ahead and added a couple pieces of fake decorations which came with the tank (and had already been cleaned) to fill in some of the tank. These will be removed as we add more live stuff.

So now the tank looks like this….

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96761Small_Tank__LR__3.jpg

The fake decoration (if you can’t tell) is on the left side (behind the LR), in the middle and on the very right.

After we released the Chromis’ they immediately went to the bottom right, back corner and hid behind the fake decoration. They stayed there for about a half hour and then S L O W L Y ventured out. A little at a time, then further, then even further. Each time darting back to they safe haven. Now they are all over the tank having a good time.... we know this cause we've been watching the for the past 4 hours. :D

[dugg]

MAN, i envy you now, lol. That is some very very nice rock he got in today. It looks like it came out of the ocean at noon today. Just bursting with life. You really should grab all of that stuff you can afford to. Live rock like that is a rare thing to find, and i bet that will be gone very quick. You are going to need atleast 75 to 80 lbs over all. Don't count your cement rock in on the lbs per gallon. When you go full cement, you will just place most of it in the sump, but you will still need it then too for filtration. The tank really is looking good, except for the fake stuff, brrrr makes me shiver lol.

The chromis will be fine and will be nice to have in there even after the cycle.

[Schmit]

Well, been looking at the tank and watching the fish.

When we got the right piece of LR in the tank and everything settled down I noticed this pecan shell looking structure. It was slightly open on one end. It was sitting in a small crevas and just looked like a smoothed off peice of rock.

You can see it if you look close at the second photo above. It is located on the left bottom, just above where the LS meets the LR... above the backwards C piece of green hair weed (which I do not know the name of but came in the LS).

Well, what ever it is it is alive. It has opened (like it shows in the above picture) and since closed... then opened again.

After turning off the tank and waiting about 1/2 hour I went over and it was open up much more. It has moved a couple times (up and down) and kind of came out of the crevas.

I know it is some type of shell thingy... but exactly what I don't know.

Unfortunitly my oldest daughter took my digi-camera home with her so I can't get a good close up picture. Here is the best I can do (taken from images I took earlier).

Any ideas what it is?

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/96761Pecan_Thing.jpg

[dugg]

Can't tell from the pic, but there is no telling what will come growing or crawling out of that rock. I would suspect you may get some snails and crabs also. If you see any crabs get them out. You don't want them in a reef. They feed on corals. I saw some small snails coming out of a rock at the store today, so i'm sure you got some in yours also. From what i saw on that rock today, you could grow a coral reef without buying corals if you had your lighting in lol.

[Schmit]

Thanks Dugg. We did get one small snail shell that fell out of the rock but it hasn't moved since. Must be just the shell.

So far the Chromis' are doing fine. They are still shy and head towards the bottom right back corner (behind the fake corral) when they feel threatened.

[Schmit]

Well, so far everything is in balance... ammonia, nitrite and nitrate up some but still within limits. Going to keep a close eye on these over the next couple days though.

Keep finding new things on the rock. This is soooo kewl!