I have the tank, but that's all!!

[rubysmomma1]

My name is Nicole and my boyfriend Jay and I are wanting to begin a salt water aquarium complete with a thriving reef. The problem is after reading hours and hours of info online, we're more confused than ever. We have a 46 Gal bowfront with air in it. We pretty much understand the cycling of the tank, but we're not sure what filtration (if any), power heads, skimmer, lighting, etc., etc. we should look into purchasing. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Newbies, Nicole and Jay

[Shooter7]

First off,

[welcome]


If you haven't already done so, take a look at Waterkeeper's new tank thread:

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=239848

As far as the equipment goes, I think the response you're probably going to get here is a question back to you asking you if you have a good idea of what you're planning on having in this tank. Some equipment choices stem from the answer to that question. Based on my own experience to date, breaking down the project into its separate components and researching each one individually is a little less overwhelming than trying to put the whole picture together all at once. Make sure you have a good gameplan in place before you go filling anything with water. And speaking of water, a good first piece of equipment to get if you don't already have it is an RO/DI. Good luck. :)

[daytonareefing]

I like the ASM brand skimmer best the G-2 may be good for that tank and make sure you use R.O. water in it. The lighting depends on what you keep. But vho's look nice. Buy 3 or 4 powerheads for in the tank and maybe a 8 watt U.V. unit with lots of liverock you have a great filter right there.

[dkh0331]

Welcome to the world of reefkeeping.

As shooter pointed out, Waterkeeper's threads are a great source of information, and IMPHO, very entertaining to read.

All of the info that you will be exposed to can and will seem daunting. One of the best suggestions - patience. Well, patience and and a buttload of cash.

When you get around to purchasing equipment, buy quality products. A lot of people, myself included, thought we could get by with purchasing things that were cheaper in price. Don't do it. By quality products day one and it will be cheaper in the long run. Right now I have 3 POS skimmers boxed up in my basement. I finally ended up purchasing a quality skimmer, but spent as much on the three POS's as the quality one cost.

Read, research and work hard to bring in extra bartending tips, you will need it.

HTH

David

[eggman]

just keep reading here and ask a lot of questions.
you will be amazed at how much that 46 gallon tank of air is going to cost you..lol
but it is an amazing hobby
all the best
egg

[dugg]

Before you start buying equipment, go and pre pay a bankruptcy lawyer. That way when you reach that point it's all paid for in advance.

[WaterKeeper]

Hi Nicole & Jay

Winning the lottery is not really paramount to starting a reef tank (but it sure can help). ;)

Lighting is probably you first, and most costly, consideration in setting up a tank at this point. You can save money at this stage by just setting up a fish only tank that requires minimal lighting. On the other hand, if you want to go directly to a true reef then you need to budget for it now. The The Lighting Thread (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=550860) explains this whole area in depth.

As Dave pointed out an RO/DI unit will be a key piece of initial equipment. By providing the very best possible water you will do you and your tank a big favor.

Circulation is another key concern. You need to provide 460-920 gallons per hour of circulation for that sized tank. Fortunately, for a small tank like yours a HOB type mechanical filter should probably foot the bill. A Remora or CPR backpac, that combine a skimmer and circulation, are fairly inexpensive and work well on a tank your size. If funds permit you can go to a more elaborate system.

Your actual filtration should be biological. Around 50 lbs of LR and some LS in a DSB should do the trick. That is all explained in the New Tank Thread.

Overall you can start out, especially if you want a FO tank, with initial costs in the $400-600 range.

Good luck and have fun with your new hobby.

[rubysmomma1]

Thanks for all the info so far. I did read Waterkeepers thread and it helped a bit. As with everything I've read, it all contradicts itself in some aspects and in others is mostly the same. We're not really concerned with the start up price because that was a given when we first began talking about a salt water aquarium. We already have a RO/DI unit so we're one up there. : )~ Thanks for the suggestions on skimmers. That will most likely be the next purchase. Is a sump and refugum necessary for us newbies? Just wondering and continue giving me as much knowledge as you're willing to share. I appreciate all the feedback and will continue to take advice. Thanks bunches!!

[monsaas]

sump is necessary if you have overflows on the tank or the tank is drilled. You can get away without using overflows and sump with just hangon back emperior filters (if the tank isn't drilled) for biological filteration. LR (live rock) is also i very good thing to have for natural filteration. As far as a refugium it isn't necessary but it helps out alot to keep your nitrates in check. Skimmer is a good thing to have, and in my opinion buy a good quality one. You will notice a big difference from having one or not. hope i helped out. good luck!

[Shooter7]

I did read Waterkeepers thread and it helped a bit.

:lol: Sorry Tom, just made me chuckle a little that an epic thread like that helped "a bit". LOL

If you would like to do something like having some macroalgae and don't want to drill or have an overflow to a sump/fuge, you could do like what I've got on my 26 gal, a CPR aquafuge. Or you could visit the DIY forum and look into converting a HOB filter into a fuge. I have an aqua c remora skimmer.

[rubysmomma1]

I didn't mean to discount anything I read from Waterkeepers. It's just a lot to take in at once. I've read a lot of that before and I'm still far away from even putting water in the tank. Sorry Tom.

[BriSape23]

Hi Nicole and Jay....

I am just beginning this weekend on my 46gallon bowfront and have done months of research just like you as well...Don't feel confused, between reading and asking questions on ReefCentral and talking to my LFS, there are numerous opinions about what you need. I have gone with the Majority Rules theory myself...

Here is what I have for my tank...I will post pics in a diary later this weekend...

- AquaC Remora Skimmer w/maxi-jet 1200
- Orbit Light System - 2x96w (incl. moonlight LCDs)...Also bought the timers for Dawn and Dusk effect
- Ehieim2210 Internal Filter with powerhead option
- 55lbs of DSB (25lbs of Live Sand....30lbs of Fiji Pink Reef Dry)
- 55lbs of Live Rock (Fiji - with plenty of coraline growth)

I plan to eventually add some live rock after cycling, but not much. Just what I need for some coral.

This should be more than adequate for a healthy reef system...I say that now but am sure I will be adding a supplement piece of equipment here and there...

[daytonareefing]

The deep sand bed is a mistake I had a tank crash with 4 inches of sand in it. It traps to much unwanted waste. A 2 inch sand bed is better.

[Spuds725]

Thats right, blame the DSB...---J/K :p

I hope you aren't getting too much conflicting info on here. There are several ways to go in this hobby-- not any one is right or wrong-- just different....

Some people have no problems with DSB (deep sand beds) others do-- alot of people run with sumps and refugiums others don't.

I'm a big fan of the sump/refugium concept-- not necessarily with alot of circulation throught them but the added water volume and area to cultivate macro algae just makes sense as you have a closed system little "bioshphere" if you will.

CPR does make a combination Skimmer/refugium that hangs on the back that you might want to check out.... try to get dimensions on it so you know you can use it on your tank.

If you can get the tank professionally drilled, adding a below tank sump is a snap--- the HOB siphon/overflow boxes do work but its just one more piece of equipment that can malfunction and make a wet mess.

I wish you luck-- most of the answers to your questions probably depend on the what you plan on keeping in the tank.... but getting the good quality equipment is good advice-- better then buying stuff 2 or 3 times.

[WaterKeeper]

Originally posted by rubysmomma1
I did read Waterkeepers thread and it helped a bit. As with everything I've read, it all contradicts itself in some aspects and in others is mostly the same.

Originally posted by Spuds725
I hope you aren't getting too much conflicting info on here. There are several ways to go in this hobby-- not any one is right or wrong-- just different....

What? Don't you know it's my way or the highway!
:D

To keep this hobby active we have monthly meetings of people that give advise on this forum. We do a reality check to make sure no two of us follow the same line of marine aquarium practices. That way we can keep you Newbies on your toes. ;)

I'm still a fan of the DSB. I think for the newbie it is the easiest method to control nitrogen in the tank. I do hear about the "Dread DSB Crash" but there never seems to be any concrete evidence that the sandbed played any role in the tank's demise. Don't forget; that unwanted waste "trapped" in the bed is being removed from the system and the toxins it contains are processed and detoxified without entering the water column. If you are willing to load a tank very lightly then a shallow bed or bare bottom is fine. Water changes will remove the contaminants in the water column. In a heavily loaded tank a slight "oops" can create havoc with no detoxifying mechanism. We spend billions of dollars on elaborate waste treatment plants to treat are waste. This prevents raw sewage from entering our lakes and streams. A DSB is a miniature version of those larger plants and does the same job. Anyway, if your tank is less than a few years old and it crashes, it is not due to the DSB. Almost all of us veterans will vouch for that.

Back to Nicole & Jay,

I always start new people out in an economical manner as often they are not ready for the sticker shock associated with SW vs. FW. You two seem to have the money so the first thing to do to insure a successful tank is to mail me half of it. :D

I would certainly consider a full sump on any tank it you can afford one. The benefits of having one are great as your tank progresses. Plan to have bottom dwelling carnivores? Then a fuge will provide prey (copepods and amphipods) for them to hunt.

Since it sounds like you would like a variety of corals then good lighting should be purchased. The lighting thread should be a fair guide for its selection.

I always hesitate to recommend specific equipment. Why? I honestly have only used a fraction of the stuff out there and equipment changes in both quality and cost at an alarming rate. An RO system that cost $500 a few years ago is now under $150. There were at one time about 5 good skimmers on the market; now there are a few dozen.

About the best advise I can give you is that 46 is a wee bit small for killer whales. :eek1:

Oh, and if any of my threads are confusing it is because of all the hidden meanings and verbal imagery I try to add to my threads; just like in the Harry Potter books. :D

[rubysmomma1]

The lighting thread finally explained the confusing world of lighting to us in terms we could understand. Thanks!! Another problem with the sump and refugium is that our stand does not have a place to hide them. I've noticed that much larger tanks have their sumps and refugiums behind the wall. We could put these in the closet to hide them, but would that be a good idea or not? What size refugium and sump would work best for our tank? Also would we be able to use one of the other 30 gal or 25 gal tanks for these two pieces of equipment? Thanks and keep the info coming.

[daytonareefing]

The only reason I said that it was my sand is it was full of dead smelling gray sand and I had horse shoe crabs.

[jimbo045]

Skiimming is the most important to me Wet\Dry is not as important as skimming. You can get by with alot of live\rock and skimmer with no wet-dry. To me that is the key. JD

[daytonareefing]

I agree with that 100% the bigger the skimmer the better off you are.

[WaterKeeper]

A sump as small as 20 gallons would work fine in your tank. I like them out of the way too but, in a pinch. a 20 should fit your stand.

Skip the the horseshoe crabs. :D

[obarrera]

Hey Nicole, not sure if you read this too?
http://www.reefcentral.com/modules.php?s=&name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=1

[rubysmomma1]

Thanks for the link obarrera, but I did find that a few weeks ago. So much info!! Does anyone have a link that will explain sumps in depth so if we do decide to go that way, we'll know exactly what we are doing? Thanks.

[dkh0331]

Originally posted by rubysmomma1
Thanks for the link obarrera, but I did find that a few weeks ago. So much info!! Does anyone have a link that will explain sumps in depth so if we do decide to go that way, we'll know exactly what we are doing? Thanks.

Great site explaining sumps -
http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html

[rubysmomma1]

Been reading A LOT about sumps. Haven't gotten to refugiums yet, but I am on my way. I need some opinions on drilled overflows or hang on the back overflows. Would it be beneficial for us to have our tank drilled or would a hang on the back work just as well? I've read that the hang on the back have a tendancy to malfunction and flood. Is the risk worth it?

[WaterKeeper]

Any overflow will can clog and cause a flood. HOB overflows are subject to loss of the siphon, which is not a problem with in-tank. It is alway best to have a pair of overflows so if one malfunctions the other can take the flow. With a HOB always have a drill hole in the siphon tube to break the siphon before the sump can overfill. In a drilled tank the weir levels serves to prevent such occurances. The real hi-tech method is to have high/low level switches on the tank and sump.

The in-tank overflows tend to be somewhat more quiet than the HOB and do look better.

[rubysmomma1]

New problem!!! Now that I'm finally beginning to understand what equipment and such I need to begin my 46 gal reef, my lovely boyfriend has decided to purchase a 75 gal tank. Not that I'm terribly upset. I wanted to use our 55 gal, but it is so narrow, I didn't think it would be the best for a reef. Now that the size of the tank has changed, which skimmers, power heads, size of the sump, etc, should I now be looking at? Thanks!!

[druce]

Originally posted by eggman
just keep reading here and ask a lot of questions.
you will be amazed at how much that 46 gallon tank of air is going to cost you..lol
but it is an amazing hobby
all the best
egg

I was thinking the same thing.

My advice to you is run while you can! :D

This will get expensive fast. My newbie advice is research tons, make decisions then post them on here and get everyone's advice. Then in the end make the purchase.

Buy good stuff first - don't go into it thinking you can upgrade later. In the end if you go that route you'll spend more money than you initially saved.

and have patience and ask alot of questions!!

[rubysmomma1]

I was also wondering if there is one web site more preferable than others to purchase the skimmer, power heads, etc. You type "salt water" & "equipment" into a search engine and there thousands of results. Which sites are best valued with the best equipment?

[rubysmomma1]

We are closer and closer to buying the equipment. Thank goodness we didn't start buying things before Jay decided to buy a new tank. Now that we are set on a 75 gal tank here are a few of the things we have narrowed our options down to:

*AquaC skimmer w/ 1200 MaxiJet Pump (need to know if we
should use the Remora Hang-On or Urchin In-Sump)
*Double Slim line overflow box from LifeReef
*2 Ebo-Jager 150 Watt Heaters
*Mag Drive 9.5
*Are still undecided about MaxiJet 1200 powerheads or SCWD
*50 lbs. LR from PremiumAquatics (most likely) to start cycling
*160 lbs LS from LFS which will give us a 4" DSB

Give me info on these possible buys and also let me know what else I need to look at so I can start cycling my tank.

Thanks to all who are willing to help a newbie!!!

[WaterKeeper]

Add some cheap plastic vats to cure that LR. As I pointed out in my long thread it keeps all the nasties out of the new tank water and cuts down on the subsequent algae blooms. The sand should not have a true "cure" and can go directly into the tank. Remember to have the salinity correct and the tank up to temperature.

Everything else sounds good :thumbsup:

[Spuds725]

I run with the Aqua C urchin--- they are basically the same-- one is visible on the back of the tank the other goes in sump-- -- depends on if you want to look at it or not-- i got the one with a drain fitting going to a plastic jug for my skimmate.

[rubysmomma1]

Here's yet another kink in my original plan. Now, instead of a 46 gal or buying a new 75 gal. We are purchasing an already existing 75 gal reef complete with several corals. (All the fish died during the week long power outage in January.) Along with the reef, we'll also be getting a 210 gal that has held freshwater fish. The 75 gal is complete with a sump, Euro-Reef something or other, refugium, calcium reactor, CO2 tank, and 2 400 watt (I believe they're 400 watt) metal halides. Why can't I just begin a project without Jay continually trying to make it bigger?

[WaterKeeper]

:lol:

Sounds like you are going to have instant tank. Saves you the rock curing if the LR is in good shape. Otherwise you may need to buy some to seed what has become base rock. Remember, after the move not to get too hasty in adding fish or corals. It is best to give the sandbed a couple of weeks to recover from the moving experience.

Now where to put the 210? So many problems, so few answers. :D

[PsychoKnight]

Pre-drilled tanks with a built-in overflows are a reasonable deal, but as with all post-purchase custom work, aquarium makers charge a lot more to add a built-in on a customers own tank. And glass breakage is never guaranteed. The quotes I got were almost as much as the tank itself. Best way to go, but costly if not pre-built.
I was also stressed out about external overflow box failure and tried seeking out instances where this has happened. Many warnings that this could happen, but couldn't find any stories on the net, except with the newer continuous c-channel boxes, which have no tubes. I couldn't find instances of how a conventional overflow box lost siphon on its own, or clogged to the point of causing the tank to overfill.
If you don't get your tank drilled at this time, it wouldn't be any more trouble to add the sump or refugium later, when you are more comfortable with what, where and how.
If you are willing to keep a really light bio-load (fewer fish & inverts) for several months to a year, the desire for a sump or refuge will be mitigated. Its always recommended to start a new tank with a light load anyhow, especially for people new to the hobby. As the tank matures and you slowly add animals to capacity (1-2 items/month), that would be the time to decide on a sump or refugium. How do you know you're at capacity? When test numbers are no longer looking good, nitrates & phosphates stay high even with regular water changes & plants, other factors like pH not stable, etc. If you go slow, this won't happen for a long time.

[rubysmomma1]

I"m not upset about having an instant tank because it makes it less likely for us to screw something up. My biggest problem is that I was really looking forward to starting with an empty tank and beginning a reef from ground up. The thing about the LR is that he has very little. I'm partial to the tanks that have a lot of rock work where the animals can hide. Also I have no idea about corals, a CO2 tank or what it's used for, or a calcium reactor. I do know that the calcium reactor is for the hard corals. Anyways... I'll keep everyone updated on my adventure into reef keeping.

[techigirl78]

Don't be disappointed. You can always buy more liverock and cure it outside of the tank if that is what you want. Besides, you'll need to aquascape the tank once you get it anyways.

Get a list of the corals you'll be getting and start your researching. You can usually trade corals into the LFS for some $ or store credit if you do not want certain corals down the road.

I'd also suggest getting into a reef club in your area.

What are you going to do with the 210? When you get your tank(s) up and running, you'll have to post some pics. :)

[rubysmomma1]

Originally posted by techigirl78
Don't be disappointed. You can always buy more liverock and cure it outside of the tank if that is what you want. Besides, you'll need to aquascape the tank once you get it anyways.

Get a list of the corals you'll be getting and start your researching. You can usually trade corals into the LFS for some $ or store credit if you do not want certain corals down the road.


It's amazing how a little insight from someone else can put one's mind a little more at ease. Thanks techigirl. I never even thought about what I would do with the corals if I didn't want them. Not that I won't, it's just as of now, you're right, I know nothing about them. I've been more worried about learning to set up a tank than take care of one. I thought that process would be quite a ways down the road.

The 210 gallon will be a freshwater tank for the time being. I would LOVE to make it a reef, but I really don't want to be living underneath it in an alley somewhere. :D

About curing the LR outside the tank. Can I do that in a plastic tub? I definatley will want to add more LR and eventually some fish.

I'll take pics of the original set up once the tank gets here the first of August. I'll also keep updated pics of what Jay and I are doing to make it our own. Thanks again!!

[techigirl78]

I hear you on the costs of setting up a 210. Much better to have a FW tank in a house then a reef in an ally. It is hard when both are interested in the hobby to keep tabs on money. :)

Yes, I've cured live rock in food safe rubbermaid trash cans. Same process as curing it in the tank. Watch for the cycle and move it over once to the main tank or sump when the cycle is complete and you've done the water changes.

[WaterKeeper]

Ahhh, but you leave all that nasty water in those trash cans. Take one wiff and you will know why you don't want curing water in your tank if you can help it.

Now about raising Guppies in the ally? :D