HELP! Need ideas for poweroutage!

[ggee1]

Well Hurricane Dennis made it's mark in Key West and the power was out since 11:00 last night. I guess I was not prepared for the worse in regards to the reef tank, but I want to be on top of things next time. Any ideas for back up power???? Besides a generator? I have a Little Giant MD and would rather have that run as long as possible. Thank God the electric came on just as I was ready to pull the car battery to operate a 12 volt pump. Grrrrr...... Ideas would be helpful.

Thanks!

[masterswimmer]

Your car battery is one option. But don't use a 12v pump. Get yourself a 700w power inverter and a 12v marine deep charge battery. The 700w inverter I have has three 3 prong outlets. I run my return pump, a powerhead, my skimmer......in the summer. If it goes out in the winter, I run my return pump, heater and skimmer.

Nice and inexpensive, quiet, and doesn't take up room.

Good luck,
Russ

[ggee1]

Thanks! How long does it normally run your equipment before it runs out?

[masterswimmer]

Depends what your draw is. My return pump is a Mag 9.5 and so is my skimmer pump. For rounding sake we'll call that 200 watts. For circ. in the summer I'd only use my SEIO 1500, I believe that's 38watts. In the winter though, my heater is a 300 watter. So run time would vary.

If the battery were to drain on you, just hook the cables up to your car battery and run that. Maybe on for an hour, off for an hour.

I'd suggest getting a battery recharger too. So after the outage is restored you can recharge the marine battery.

Russ

[ggee1]

The skimmer is hooked up to the main pump, so I think I would only need to power that. I'm thinking that pump draws 115 watts. I really do appreciate your help with this:rollface:

Do you know where I could get an power inverter?

[masterswimmer]

I know they sell them at Wal Mart in the automotive section. I wouldn't be surprised if you could find them at HD, Lowes, or even auto supply stores.

Wal-Mart:

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=1818512

Home Depot:

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1969014097.1120935180@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccdeaddfdlmlhjkcgelceffdfgidgmk.0&MID=9876

Russ

[ggee1]

Would you recommend that over a Computer UPS system? I'm thinking if I was on vacation or ordered to evacuate... I might need something that would restore power automatically when there's an outage. Any thoughts?

[masterswimmer]

Yes, I have a suggestion for that. It's called a generator with an automatic transfer switch. Sorry, no other way to do it that I know of.

Russ

[bergzy]

since power outages are deemed emergency situations...i will only run the absolute bare minimum to keep the tank alive.

i got a computer ups for $37 in which i have plugged into it a seio 820. at 18 watts, it should last long enough until the power comes on.

for 180g tank...that is still just short of 4x per hour turnover. not bad for emergency situations.

i see that you live in florida. if it is as nice and warm most of the year... i wouldnt worry about heaters in the outage (if they are short term).

i do not run the return pump, ca reactor, skimmer etc in an outage. it is an emergency, right!;) and hopefully the power wont be out too long.

[Paul79936]

I have found that small computer UPSs don't last for very long, Even if they have new batteries.

[ggee1]

I have found that small computer UPSs don't last for very long, Even if they have new batteries.

The only thing that I really like about the UPS though is the fact it switches to battery automatically, which is great when I'm not at home or have to evacuate. It's too bad that they do not hold power very long. :confused:

[tekknoschtev]

I've read several threads about people daisy chaining (in parallel I believe) a deep cycle marine cell battery along with the battery in the UPS. That has auto switch over. You do need to charge the deep cycle marine cell battery seperately because the UPS charger cant handle it. I'm planning on doing this and testing before the family goes on vacation.

[jeffbrig]

I have a pair of Tunze Streams on a large computer UPS. That's my basic 'life support' for circulation to keep oxygen levels up. If the power stays out for a while, I also have a 7000w gas generator for backup. With that running, I can easily power the entire tank (including the chiller), and pretty much anything I need in the house. I keep 30 gallons of gas stockpiled during hurricane season.

When I planned my tank, the generator was a required piece of equipment.

[fio1022]

I have a portable generator but if i'm not home when the power goes out,what good is it...I know it's not much but this is my little insurance policy till I can get home and hook up the generator.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/air%2cpump/Class//T1/F02+0291+0045/EDP/9322/Itemdy00.aspx

I've tested it and it works great but have not had a power outage to really see if it works:rolleyes: Hope I never have to either.
Just my two cents

[ggee1]

I appreciate the ideas, believe me! I was not that prepared for Hurricane Dennis, the power was out for 12 hours and no backup. Very poor planning on my part! I lost a Yellow Tang and was about to loose everything when the power came back on within minutes of a total disaster. I know we are up against another bumpy season this year. Down here the power goes out all the time.

I'm just suprised that a (Aquarium) company has not already designed something. I've looked up and found an APC SMARTUPS 1000 UPS??, I might just get this now to be at least somewhat safe for the next time the power goes out. If I'm understanding this correctly, it still requires the computer in order to operate????? I will have to rig the power head in the sump, plumbed to return water back to the tank. This would have to work in junction with the Mag Pump already on the tank. Once the power would go out, hopefully the powerhead will keep water flowing (at a lower rate) through the filter until power is restored or at least buy some time.

[bergzy]

could someone convert the 18 watts to the 1000mv(?) that the ups has?

as this is 'emergency' power for circulation only...i am not concerned with running the other equipment...hence the word...emergency...not total energy replacement to run the tank like there was no power outage.

you could also get some battery powered air pumps that will aid with circulation...which is by far the most important attribute in times of temporary power loss. the only thing about using battery powered air pumps is that you have to be present to use them. the ups snaps on when the power goes out...

[StupidsReef]

I'm sorry to ask this, but If I may...What is this UPS thing your chatting about?? I take it hooks up to your home computer??

[ggee1]

Originally posted by bergzy
as this is 'emergency' power for circulation only...i am not concerned with running the other equipment...hence the word...emergency...not total energy replacement to run the tank like there was no power outage.

I'm not looking for total power replacement... I understand this is for emergency use as well. You're right, the air pump is the better option, far as longevity and maybe instead of a battery air pump... I could just plug a 110v air pump in the UPS? This way it would turn on if power should fail.

[ggee1]

Originally posted by tattoo
I'm sorry to ask this, but If I may...What is this UPS thing your chatting about?? I take it hooks up to your home computer??


No problem.... it's Uninterruptible Power Supply, used on computers in case power would fail it would allow time for the user to properly shut down the computer and other equipment.

[jeffbrig]

Originally posted by ggee1
I've looked up and found an APC SMARTUPS 1000 UPS??, I might just get this now to be at least somewhat safe for the next time the power goes out. If I'm understanding this correctly, it still requires the computer in order to operate?????

I think that's the same unit I'm using, bought it at Sam's club for ~$120. The streams I'm running on it are rated 45 watts each (that's at 100%, they really fluctuate between 30-100% on a controller). I expect the UPS would be good for at least a few hours with a load under 90 watts.

You don't need a computer to run it. It just has a feature that can tell your PC to shut down if the power is out and the batteries get low. I have on on my PC, one on the tank, and a third for my TV and satellite/TiVo box.

[8BALL_99]

Those lil battery powered airpumps that petgo and petsmart sell are all you need for a day or so of no power... They plug in and will kick on when the power goes out.. They cost 20 bucks.. If you just want to keep the oxygen up in the water thats all you need.. If you want to run your return pump skimmer heaters ect... then a generator is really the best way to go..

[ggee1]

I found a APC 1500 UPS for $74.00 plus shipping on Ebay, it was a bigger model and actually the same price as the APC 1000 that someone else was selling. :rollface:

Thanks Jeffbrig for the information....

[jeffbrig]

Glad to help! Can I get a behind the scenes tour next time I'm in Key West? :D :D

For anyone else using this info as a reference, I just double checked and my unit is actually the APC Back-UPS Pro 1100.

[Paul79936]

The problem is that a Hurricane can leave you without power for weeks. Battery power might be good enough to give you enough time for the weather to improve enough so that you can start your generator.

If you want to use a UPS, I would use something like this, with a bank of deep cycle batteries:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=2938&print=yes

[8BALL_99]

I agree a APC 1500 is not going to last that long...From their website Replacement battery cartridge RBC33
RBC™ Quantity 1
Typical backup time
at half load 12.4 minutes (432.5 Watts)
Typical backup time
at full load 3.7 minutes (865 Watts)

3 mins at full load lol... Even at 1/4 the load your talking maybe 20 mins Most return pumps or even decent skimmers use 90 or so watts....A ups is just ment for very short run times so you can save your work and shut down your computer.. Its not ment to run them while the power is out..

And for the cost of a bank of batterys and so on you could just run a generator...

[sagekoala]

I can say those little battery powered air pumps work great for shorter power outages. I got mine at petsmart a while back. I do belive they are $14.99 if i recall corectly. I have it wired so when the power goes out it also turns on a couple of air pumps that are very similar but without the auto turn on that i got from the local bait shop for ~$5. In fact i had to use them last night. The three of them work great for my 120g fowlr. The downsides are that these pumps are that they are very loud, you need to make sure you have plenty of spare D cells around, and also they also don't provide very much pressure. I place mine no more than a foot down into the tank. I use one to power a pretty standard air stone and the other two for a 4" "wall" that moves the water pretty well. All in all I am currently thinking about hooking up a standard air pump to an old ups I have (its reaction time wasn't fast enough for my servers power supply so it was kind of useless for that). With D cell batterys as expensive as they are, i think it will be well worth it.

Also as an aside ... i don't know about using power inverters on car/deep cycle batteries, simply because how inefficient they are. for a small load it wouldn't be much of a problem, but at larger loads i wouldn't personally do it. If you must though you could use some simple relays to flip it on once the power goes out, and back off when it comes back on.

[masterswimmer]

Originally posted by sagekoala

Also as an aside ... i don't know about using power inverters on car/deep cycle batteries, simply because how inefficient they are. for a small load it wouldn't be much of a problem, but at larger loads i wouldn't personally do it. If you must though you could use some simple relays to flip it on once the power goes out, and back off when it comes back on.

What kind of inefficiency are you referring to? We are talking about running a water pump and heater. No high end electronics on here. This is precisely what an inverter is intended to do, provide 110v AC.

A perfect low cost temporary alternative.

Russ

[ggee1]

Originally posted by jeffbrig
Glad to help! Can I get a behind the scenes tour next time I'm in Key West? :D :D

Sure no problem Jeffbrig :p

I agree the 1500 won't offer long power backup, but it's a start and can be modified to last a little longer then the 12 to 23 minutes. As far as the 1 to 2 weeks without power..... well at that point I will be making multiple water changes and maybe even requesting some help from my boss at work! :eek2:

[fish_taste_good]

As a tampa native that dealt with outages last year, I can say that you should get a few of the battery operated airpumps and a bunch of batteries to use in case the power is out for a long time. Buy them now and online.

A LFS that I wont mention was the only one that had them during a hurricane last year and I ended up paying twice what I should have. Because of this, I no longer shop there even though I get WOM discount.

As for the UPS, you only need to run the return pump. And I must say, you really only need to run it for a little while at a time if run in conjunction with the airpumps.

I used a very small one last year (first pic) which enabled me to run my pump on and off for a day. Not the best method but I lost nothing over 48 hours (i had two of them).
http://www.waylogger.com/tank/apc_350.JPG

The second picture is what I have installed now. I have two of these plus two of 350's.
http://www.waylogger.com/tank/apc_500.JPG
http://www.waylogger.com/tank/apc_500-2.JPG

These work great for a pump or so only. Make sure you have only the return pump plugged into the battery backup portion since it is the most important item. If you have alot in the battery backup portions, you will drain them in a heartbeat. But all you need on a temp basis is circulation.

Long term = generator.

Glad to hear you made it through Dennis. Now lets see what #5 (think Short Circuit) will do.

[ggee1]

Glad to hear it's working for ya! Makes me feel a little more comfortable. The power has been going on and off for about an hour at a time since the storm, making me feel a little better that I can at least buy some time with this. I'm just hoping to get this into place before the next storm that's brewing out in the Atlantic. HANG ON HERE WE GO AGAIN!

A generator would be great but very difficult to store one where I live. I'm on the fourth floor of an apartment complex. Storing the gas would also be a problem... since there is no storage at all but closet space. :(

I may follow your idea and others buy purchasing another UPS so not to cause too much draw on one.

Thanks!

[fish_taste_good]

Just make sure you have it always charged. I read a few posts last year about that and people took them out of the box and wondered why they didnt work.

They arent the greatest solution, but they work.

[Rivalpc]

Originally posted by 8BALL_99
I agree a APC 1500 is not going to last that long...From their website Replacement battery cartridge RBC33
RBC™ Quantity 1
Typical backup time
at half load 12.4 minutes (432.5 Watts)
Typical backup time
at full load 3.7 minutes (865 Watts)

3 mins at full load lol... Even at 1/4 the load your talking maybe 20 mins Most return pumps or even decent skimmers use 90 or so watts....A ups is just ment for very short run times so you can save your work and shut down your computer.. Its not ment to run them while the power is out..

And for the cost of a bank of batterys and so on you could just run a generator...

Just to give you an Idea of real time use on the APC 1400 (roughly the same as the 1500) in an emergency.

75 gal tank

Skimmer 12 watts - filter and O2 (sort of)
Powersweep 228 14 watts - some water movement
50/50 light at 36 watts (not on all the time)

I got just about 7 hours of run time last time the power went out. Enough time to ride the storm out and get the generator running. The light was off most of the time, and since the tank will funtion without a light for a couple of days you can run a second powerhead.

Here is the APC chart to compare.

APC watts vs run time (http://www.apcc.com/products/runtime_for_extendedruntime.cfm?upsfamily=165)

[8BALL_99]

Rivalpc.. I know they will run small power heads and bubble stones for several hours.. but they were talking return pumps lights and heaters... I was just letting him know that with that kinda of load he woud be looking at less then 30 mins.... I have no power heads on my tanks.. and all of them have 250 to 500 watts of lights each. My skimmer is a ASM G4 with a sedra 5000 Huge pump... If you were to run even just one of my return pumps its a mag 12 and pulls 110watts. If he wants to just run a bubble stone I figured he could get out alot cheaper with those battery powered air pumps.. Besides they take standerd D batterys so you can have backups.. When a ups runs down your done till the power comes on... IMO the O2 is the Main problem when the power goes out..The more fish the bigger the problem.

[Reef55]

I have the APC SU2200RMXLNET. My computer / cable modem / router and my return pump are connected to it. If the power fails, the APC emails my cell phone letting me know the power is out. Then it shuts down the computer (and the cable modem / router as those are connected to the computer). At this point I know there is a power outage, and the only thing running on the APC UPS is the return pump.

My return pump is a pan-world 100PS, drawing 100 watts. Using the runtime chart at APC, the return pump will go 5 and a half hours.

In addition to the return pump, I have the above-mentioned battery powered air bubblers in my display, fuge, growout tank, and sump. This way when power is restored, I don't have any oxygen depleted water being sent back to my display.

[tgreene]

I use an APC RS-1500 which easily drove my Mag-12 sump return for 1 hour a couple of weeks ago.

This particular model also has the capability of adding on another external cell, which at least triples the run time, so I just bought it yesterday and hope to have it withion a couple of days.

FWIW: I'll more than likely swap things around a bit, so that these cells would be dedicated to running a Maxi-Jet 900, giving me a lot more down time.

Here's a pic of the APC 1500 and the add-on battery:

http://www.electronicsoutfitter.com/images/items/apnbx1500bp.jpg

[ggee1]

Originally posted by Reef55
the APC emails my cell phone letting me know the power is out. Then it shuts down the computer (and the cable modem / router as those are connected to the computer). At this point I know there is a power outage, and the only thing running on the APC UPS is the return pump.


I like that! Is that a feature on most APC's? From the sounds of it.... the unit that I'm getting should be able to run a small power head for longer then expected. I'm sure I will run many test on different pumps before I make the decision on which one to use. This is all very useful information.

[ggee1]

Here's the UPS I purchased Sunday.... I just hope that I get it before Emily comes rolling into town.

http://apc.com/resource/images/products/sua1500_f_v.jpg

[Paul79936]

I have a Back-UPS ES 500 and it will run a small air pump and nothing else for about 2 hours. It could also be that a diaphragm pump uses more power than a small powerhead or a small piston pump (which is what the small bait bucket aerators are).

I don't see the point personally. A small battery powered aerator will last 24 hours or so on 2 D cells, and you can get the type that turn on automatically in a power outage. You can buy about 5 of these for the price of a cheap UPS.

The inverters in these things are not very efficient, although the more expensive models are likely better. They waste too much power relative to what they convert into AC.

[tgreene]

Originally posted by Paul79936
I don't see the point personally. A small battery powered aerator will last 24 hours or so on 2 D cells, and you can get the type that turn on automatically in a power outage. You can buy about 5 of these for the price of a cheap UPS. That's my last line of defense... My battery operated air pump will be connected to my APC-1500, and will only kick on once the batteries are drained.

I would much rather keep the water flowing through the filters as long as humanly possible, than to just opt for an air pump.

[8BALL_99]

You use filters?

[tgreene]

filters = sump/fuge/carbon :)

[ggee1]

Originally posted by tgreene
I would much rather keep the water flowing through the filters as long as humanly possible, than to just opt for an air pump.

I agree.... even though air pumps are a great last resort, I still believe that water flowing through the bio system as long as possible is more beneficial, IMO. I'm by no means saying not to use the battery power air pumps.

I was even thinking that a 12 volt bilge pump plugged into the UPS with an adapter would offer me more power longer. However, the question then is why not use a 12 volt marine battery instead? These are questions I will need to experiment with once I get this UPS delivered.

[ggee1]

Well I finally received my APC 1500 UPS.... I ran some test and it looks like I can run my mag pump for about three hours which is great! I was suprised to say the least. This UPS unit has a plug for additional batteries for longer backup life... something that I might think about here in the near future.

http://gregsreef.com/photodata//New%20Reef%20Tank/320/Glass%20Bottom%20Boat%20068.jpg

[BermyBoi]

since were on the topic...
it is best to always be prepared - hurricane season or not. On wednesday morning there was a fire at the central power station - which caused an island wide power outage for 24 hours. Unfortunatley i was definately not prepared for this problem, and lost the inhabitants of my tank. This was a HEART WRENCHING experience which i will definately be prepared for come pay day. I will be buying a generator because the damage at the power station was so extenxsive that they will be regulating power outages in order to "conserve" energy untill repairs can be made. For situations when i may not be home i am considering the APC unit. How much do these APC units retail for and where can they be purchased?

[ggee1]

I bought mine through Ebay for about 80.00 dollars... it was cheaper and the product is the same! Look under APC or UPS

I agree about the generator idea as long as your home... you never know how long the power will be out!

[Snakekeeper]

I have been reading this topic and started looking for something that I could use and I found this link think it may help with modiing your APC's to last longer in a power outage.

http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/emergencypowersources/ht/ht_aqups.htm

[ggee1]

Appreciate the info! I see that the UPS unit that I purchased has an outlet for additional batteries and intend on buying a few more to aid in the backup life of the unit.

[LiquidShaneo]

This might be a good article for you to read: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/feature.htm

Shane

[jthnhale]

I hope you all don't get to many hurricanes this season.

check out this link for some super big inverters, they are not cheap though :(

http://www.tripplite.com/products/inverters/index.cfm

[marduc]

I bought a 350 watt power inverter from wal-mart last year when Charley first started threatening the gulf coast of Florida, little did I know the workout it would get in the next month or so at the time.

That $50 dollar expenditure payed for itself numerous times over very quickly. I had three seperate power outage issues with the back to back to back hurricane visits, ranging between 12 to 36 hours.

I just wired my inverter directly to the car battery, ran an extension cord into the house, and then ran a small pump with a venturi outlet to airate my tank, and also was able to run a house fan, a radio, and a 75 watt lightbulb as well.

Every hour or so I would go out and start my car and let it run for about 10 minutes to charge the battery back up. At night I set an alarm to wake up after 4 hours to start the car up to recharge the batteries (I also ran nothing but the pump to airate my tank while I slept to minimize the drain on the battery)

If you cannot afford a generator, then I would definately recommend a power invertor for your car battery, for $50 or so this is by far the most cost effective way to supply back up power and keep your tank alive during a power outage.. just make sure you have a full tank of gas for your car, and if possible forewarn your neighbors that you may potentially hit them up for a jump if needed (I invited my neighbors over for late night spades and beer just to butter them up a tad, although the jump was'nt ever needed it was reassurting to know that if needed I had one ;))

Ideally I would like to have a generator for my back up power, but for $300+ less I have a reliable back up power supply that could feasibly last a week or so provided I have enough gas in my car to keep the battery charged up.

[WarEagleNR88]

Wow marduc, great thinking.

Although in OK we don't have to worry too much about hurricanes, tornadoes and ice storms are equally as deadly because you can loose power AND it be cold. I may need to invest in one of those power inverters in case winter hits hard. Where did you find it in Walmart?

That reminds me, I should get the power company to come and trim some trees away from my power lines.

[marduc]

Originally posted by WarEagleNR88
Where did you find it in Walmart?




At the time it was right in the main central aisle between the automotive area and the hardware area (effective marketing for them since a hurricane was bearing down on the area ;)

Check the automotive/sporting goods area, I am sure they are somwhere around there.