I got crack!

[kmagyar]

I knew that would get you freaks in here! Heres the scoop. The frame on the top of my 50 has quite a number of small cracks and now one large crack. See photos below. I have been contemplating the issue in weather or not I should do something about it. I did. I decided its better to be safe than sorry. I cannot risk putting 50 gallons of water plus livestock on my livingroom floor. I dont think my landlady would appreciate a salt water shower either.

I contacted All Glass today. The rep was very friendly. She said they would honor the warranty. She called The Fish Place and told them she will send them a check for the cost of the tank. Since it was a custom drilled tank and I cannot afford to wait too long to get it, I have decided to pay the difference and get the 65 gallon with built in overflow. Ill have it next Thursday.

So now I'm really shaking. Most of you know my setup. Heres what I have to do.

- Raise the refugium to keep it gravity fed. Approx 4". Im planning on using 4x4 pressure treated blocks under the stand. That should do it.

- Ill need to take the corals out along with the rock and everything else. No brainer.

- Livesand. Ah yes, I have a 4" sandbed. Its pretty mature. I dont know how well this will change over for me. Ill need some advise on this. I was planning on moving 100% of it to the new tank. Then running a hang on filter to clear up the water in fewer than 24 hours.

Off the top of my head, I think thats it. Ill need a couple small tanks (Randy) and some heaters could help ease the pain too. I have a dry 15 gallon and a 20 long from a friend to use so far. A couple 10s would be helpful.

Any advise at all is needed. I am mainly concerned with the sandbed and what affects it may have on the aquarium. This is a big project but I feel that I have to do it to prevent a disaster.

Dave - Ill use tape on the top the next time around to protect the frame more.

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/crack1.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/crack2.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/crack3.JPG

[cperson]

Keith,

When we moved Kevin Mac's tank to his new house we drained as much water out as we could and kept the sand bed in it. The water that was in the bed sloshed around, some sand shifted and the top layer of sand got pretty disturbed. Ask Kevin what the result was - :sad2: I also had a dead sand bed problem this summer, due to overheating and snail die-off. Another :sad2:

From those experiences I would say do this: Remove as much sand from the old tank as you can without disturbing the layers. Save this (and maybe the rest of it too in a separate container). Put in new sand in the new tank, seed it with some of the old sand. You are probably going to loose a lot of critters and it will take a while to mature but you won't risk polluting your new tank.

Maybe you should post your dilemma on Dr. Ron's forum. He's supposedly the DSB guru.

LOL,
Craig

[ReeferMac]

Keith,

bummer man... Why not use this opportunity go up to a 90 or something :-). Just a few gallons more? I'm dissapointed in you grasshopper :bum:

I agree with Craig, ask Dr. Ron what to do. Keep your prize corals in the refugium, and set that up to run "on it's own" for a couple days. You will want to wait. Everything Craig said is true, sand moved a bit, and I think that's what contributed to a lot of my die offs. Without sounding like a shameless plug for free coral, frag the snot out of everything you can... Don't wanna lose any species. Let Randy hang on to whatever he can. If at all possible, I'd try and make holding facilities for them for a day or two (rubbermaid tubs work just fine. They can live a day or two w/o lights and not suffer any real damage. It's the moving of the sand that's scary (course starting a sandbed over isnt too appealing either.) You'll lose all your lower layers, that's inevitable, I wouldn't even bother trying to save that bacteria (will recolonize on it's own over time - though keep that in mind after you setup the new tank... You'll need to give it time to get back to it's old self. Mine is just now starting to near it's past performance (9 months since move?).

Might be a good chance to go thicker on the bed too, or change over to a different material (not that I'd want to). Maybe get some new LR or something. At the very least, you'll want to get a small bag of sand to cover the top layer with. Give's it a nice, clean, white look after moving everything, and you're bound to lose some anyway...

I've got a spare 30, and a pair of old 10's in the basement. I could swap out my Top-off container as well and just use the trash can for a reservois - 'nother 30 Gal container you can use. Got a couple of old heater's lying around (I don't trust their guage's tho...). Couple floating thermometer's as well you could use. There's some old powerheads in a box down the basement as well if you need them. I'm busy all day Saturday this weekend, but could possibly come down on Sunday if you needed. Start making up some water now... you're going to need it.

- Mac

[Playfair]

Actually, that crack looks pretty repairable to me, but if you are looking to upsize... :cool:

I would raise the refuge NOW. Then give it a week to recoup. Unless you want to wait a month, I wouldn't frag anything at this point, as that is undo stress. you could just transfer your "prize corals" to a temporary home.

I assume you want to keep a dsb in your new tank? If so, I too would start with fresh sand, then just transfer the top inch from the 50.

If you end up getting 1000watters to increase your punching power, gimme some dibs on that PFO!

[ToddsReef]

Keith,
Very cool that you got reimbursed and also that you are upsizing (although I loved that 50)...but I was thinking...better get rid of that dull fungia...I could hold on to it for say 10-12 years while your tank establishes itself :) Seriously, I have a heater (200W) and a maxijet 750 that you are welcome to borrow. If you need a hand I could come out for an evening when you are ready to move (unfortunately I have to work real hours for the next three weeks so I probly couldn't get there until 6 or so).
Todd

[Gary Majchrzak]

Keith, I'm glad you still have the crack and haven't yet been "busted"! I have two 10 gallon Perfecto's you are welcome to use if needed...the 3rd got busted by my nephew! Lemme know...Gary
BTW- I have these cracks.I think they are caused by MH heat and saltwater.What is your suggestion for repair, Dave? I think superglue would work,seriously...or should I get reimbursed and UPGRADE also??? :D

[RandyO]

Hi guys. I'm curious. What is the problem with moving sand beds? Does something get released into to the water? And if so what? What is down there that can be so harmful? The worst thing I could think of is Hydrogen Sulfide, from anaerobic areas. And this would be released in a gas form. I'm not saying there isn't anything bad down there. I just want to know what it is.

[ToddsReef]

Randy,
I'm not very familiar with the biology of DSB's and exactly what anaerobes they contain but many anaerobes can be nasty pathogens (they would need to be facultative in this case as obligate anareobes would be rapidly killed in our tanks...or so we should hope!). Did that "brown" acro that I via Keith turn cool for you? Have a good one.
Todd

[Playfair]

Todd: the next dsb guru! lol
Randy, I believe that "moving" a dsb kills the bacteria in the deeper anearobic areas. Basically, it forces a "re-cycling". On Macs tank, we tried to preserve the bed, but all hell broke loose somehow.

Gary... what we do to repair a 50 may be different when compared to a 220... lol
I was thinking of glueing/screwing a new plastic framework to the existing one, perhaps using ABS that is cut to fit. "Dry-rot" cracks from UV and heat are one thing, it's separation of the crack that means immediate action is required!

[kmagyar]

Well, It looks like Ill be borrowing a 40 gallon breeder from randy plus a 20 long from another friend. I forgot to ask randy if I may bowwor his cpr skimmer. Hows about it Randy? That way I can set up everything in my kitchen for a few days. I will add more southdown as a cap on the dsb. Ill run the skimmer at full bore in the 65 for a day or 2 and hope for the best when I restock.

Dave: The homemade corner brace is a perfect idea. seeing how its only a 50 gallon, Ill take the warranty.

Todd: The acro. Not yet. Wierd how it doesnt look as good as the small frag you gave me. I'm sure it will.

Mac: A 90. We went to Joe's last night and I tried to propose that to the girl. No way! A 90 is too big for my place.

[saltwaterfishlover]

hey guys was having a novel thought on this situation an ways to prevernt it in the future. I know Dave wrapped his brace with white electrical tape. What do you think about painting it with white epoxy? would that help or just make things brighter? what other ways may prevent this from happening. I have a new AG120
and dont want this to happen to me ever or at least for many many years.....
thanks
andy
new to the group but was at Dave house the other week

[kmagyar]

saltwaterfishlover: You raise a good issue. I was planning on using foil tape to reflect the rays. Hoe about ArmorAll? hehe.

[saltwaterfishlover]

Another thing i was thinking of is aluminum or stainless sheet metal and small holes with nylon bolts to hold it in place or maybe a mirror in the same fashion

[ReeferMac]

Well I can supply all the aluminum you'll ever need... Got a box of plates from work, 12-guage, semi polished (not anywhere near a mirror finish). 57 inches wide, and plenty to go around, if anyone needs it.

- Mac

[kmagyar]

thats a good idea Kev. I still have that roll of aluminum that you gave me last year.

Do you think its the heat or the rays that causes the cracks?

[kmagyar]

Here is a link that may be useful.
http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/oddity_page/break.htm (http://)

[Gary Majchrzak]

I don't think you are gonna want to get aluminum anywhere NEAR saltwater....

[RandyO]

Keith
I am soaking the 40 breeder right now. I will scrape the coralline algae off tonight. And yes, you can use the cpr sr4. I will have to clean that up tonight too. Let me know when you want this stuff. You prob want to put water in it soon.
Todd
Thanks for the frag. The color has not changed yet. I have it up close to the 400W halide. But most of my acro are brown. I always assumed the more light, the more colorful acros would be. But that is not the case for me. There must me something else in my case that contributes to brown. Maybe photo period. I am experimenting with that right now. Could be Temp, stability of water, plankton, etc.

[kmagyar]

I lifted the refugium tonight. I started at 8:00 and finished by 9:30. All went pretty well. I used pressure treated strips of 2x6 with 4x4 on top. Here are some photos of my monday night.

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/ref02.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/ref03.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/ref04.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/ref05.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/ref06.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/ref07.JPG

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/ref08.JPG

[kmagyar]

Life support system setup. Thansk to Randy for most of the gear. I even have an old ph meter. All I need now is to get the hang on skimmer from stashudave.

http://usr.myip.org/magyar/hospital_setup.JPG

[RandyO]

Hey Keith
Looks good. But does that work? The overflow works by gravity. And if you submerge the back of the overflow, does the water go down the 1" pipe still? I can't tell if I see a return pump or not. Looks like maybe a maxi jet power head. Just wanted to make sure its running and all set.:)