Need to hear from people who have STOPPED using Oceanic Salt

[Jus Reefin]

OK, from what my LFS tell me Oceanic has raised the prices beyond acceptable amounts. I need to switch back to IO who has done this succesfully? My tank is about 210g total volume with sump and all. I have a few SPS but mainly my prized LPS are what I worry about. ANy advise would be appreciated.

Peace

[redawg]

i switched from IO to Oceanic to Reef crystals. did 1 gallon water changes a day for a month.. never seen any stress at all. good luck

[Wiskey]

I used IO for a while and liked it,

Then I tried the "new thing" and went to oceaniac, I had problems with high CA, low ALK and low PH, this was when my tank was a softie tank.

I bought IO again after killing the bucket of oceanic and (In a 50G system) did a series of weekly 7G water changes and my tank never looked better.

I still use IO and have a bunch of LPS a derassa clam and some Monitpora, and have no problems with CA or Alk because of using kalk. CA = 430, DKH = 10, ALWAYS I still do 7G weekly W/C's on this tank, with IO, but it now has a 20 gallon Fuge.

I love IO and I am not going back.

Whiskey

[jimbo045]

I also switched to Coralife salt, not Inst. Ocean. JD

[VCoo71]

raised price beyond acceptable amounts?
is there a petsmart near by? 90 ga mix is 21$ if you print out the online page they will price match you
i just got 2 jugs this morning

charlie

[Worldwithin]

I am currently in the process of ditching the Oceanic bandwagon monstly due to the issues with algae and bad salt variants. Anyhow, I have yet to actually do a water change with the IO, but I would assume that so long as it isn't a major water change, you should be fine.

Andy
:fish1:

[Mariner]

I started with IO, then went through several jugs of Oceanic -- didn't like the low alk/high calc. Sooo, I've gone to a 50/50 mix of IO and reef crystals. So far it's working fine -- changing about 10% per week. My LFS did say that he'd been warned that an Oceanic price hike was in the pipeline.
FWIW,
Mariner

[Steven Pro]

I went through one bucket of Oceanic and didn't like it before switching back to Reef Crystals. No problems whatsoever.

[VCoo71]

i know when i mix up IO i get a DKH of 11.2 wich was too high IMO and with my reactor running it would stay way to high and think thats why i would loose a coral here or there due to RTN
oceanic has been testing out to be around 9 and thanks to my Ca reactor it stays a solid 9 ......its sure a lot easier to raise the dkh then to lower it
i have just finished the switch over to oceanic from IO and have yet to have any problems

charlie

[LobsterOfJustice]

A month or two ago I bought a skimmer and needed to re-do my sump. I took it offline for a day or so and added baffles, and changed some plumbing. After this I did not have enough Oceanic salt so I used some IO to fill the sump back. The sump holds around 25 gallons out of the 125 in my system.

Now I am NOT blaming the salt, but simply observing that was once change made at the time. Over the next few weeks all my sps bleached and RTNd, and my Xenia melted away. I have 2 LPS and one made it through perfectly, but one is slowly losing tissue. It very well could have been some uncured silicone or PVC cement, so do not be too worried. My point is why risk it. I am slowly switching to a mix of IO and Oceanic because of the price of oceanic. My first w/c I did 1 cup IO, the rest Oceanic. Next I did 2 cups IO.....

[Johnsteph10]

Oceanic has NOT raised prices on their salt. Your LFS is giving you a line.

[Mariner]

Originally posted by Johnsteph10
Oceanic has NOT raised prices on their salt. Your LFS is giving you a line.
No, he isn't. With some LFS I suspect I'm being fed a line about every other sentence they speak, but this one has no motivation to lie -- It would take too long to explain why, but lets just say that I've never found him to be anything but 100% honest. But, it is possible that he may have been fed a line from a distributer or wholesaler.
Mariner

[Scuba Dog]

I tried oceanic a whyle back but it had phosphate problems so I ditched the stuff......now IO is all Ill ever use.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
ANy advise would be appreciated.

Peace
I usually use IO, but occasionally I use Oceanic when my Ca needs a boost.
The switch from Oceanic to IO (or vice versa) should be non-eventful (monitor values).
I'd question any LFS regarding a statement about an "acceptable amount" being charged for anything, not just saltmix. (Is it cutting into their profit margin? Do they cater to what their customers want?)
If you do a search you can find places selling Oceanic cheaper (per pound) than IO.

[Jus Reefin]

I only have 1 or 2 LFS that sell Oceanic and with the Algea problems that started since using it and the lack of any place local to find it I see it as a good time to go back to what worked well for so many years, that's IO. I will check PetSmart but mine have never carried anything other then the 50g bucket. I read a lot of horrow stories here on RC about people losing corals after switching back. I will just take it slowly.

On a side note most LFS don't make much money on Salt so there is no need to lie about it. Salt is already priced so high there mark up is very minimal.

[MiddletonMark]

Switched from IO to Oceanic, then back to IO. Not a single problem, and I tend to change 10-20%.
Did mix salts for a w/c or two - but don't think that made a huge difference.

[Jus Reefin]

Thanks Mark, that is exactly what I did and now want to go back to IO. I have had the worse Bybropsis problem since using Oceanic

[MiddletonMark]

I just had terrible water chemistry/low alk. Gets old quick, huh?

Good luck :)

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Switched from NSW to Oceanic and had major alage outbreak. Switched to IO with no problems. I'm now back to NSW but would go to IO if need be. I did a 50% WC using IO with no issues. My tank is all LPS, Zoo's Ric's, no SPS.

[thrlride]

I switched from IO to Oceanic and had no issues. I continue to use oceanic with good results. I just add a little baking soda to raise the alk before I add the water to the tank.

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
On a side note most LFS don't make much money on Salt so there is no need to lie about it. Salt is already priced so high there mark up is very minimal.

My LFS charges $67 for a 200 gallon bucket of Oceanic, you can buy that same bucket from petsmart for $40. I'd say they are making a profit.

Maybe a LFS that orders small quantities wouldn't make much as another LFS near me said that what I pay for oceanic at petsmart is barely more than what he pays.

[Jus Reefin]

My lfs was selling me the 200g bucket for $39.99 and said if they order any more it will be that price for the 50g jug. I know for a fact the LFS in my area make little to no profit on Salt. Now if they were selling to me for almost $70 a bucket i would know they were lying. To be honest at this point I could have a thousand people tell me they have no problems with Oceanic and even if the prices were not going up I still don't want to use it anymore. To many issues for me and the cost increase was the straw that broke the camels back

[oddballs]

salt is salt!!

[Jus Reefin]

Originally posted by oddballs
salt is salt!!

Sure and a Car is a car and a skimmer is a skimmer too........................................................................................NOT!

[thrlride]

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
My lfs was selling me the 200g bucket for $39.99 and said if they order any more it will be that price for the 50g jug. I know for a fact the LFS in my area make little to no profit on Salt. Now if they were selling to me for almost $70 a bucket i would know they were lying. To be honest at this point I could have a thousand people tell me they have no problems with Oceanic and even if the prices were not going up I still don't want to use it anymore. To many issues for me and the cost increase was the straw that broke the camels back

$40 for a 50 gallon jub would be a huge price leap. They need to switch distributors if that is the case. I understand your concern with all the negatives you hear about oceanic though. I'll continue to use them as I've experienced none of the problems.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
OK, from what my LFS tell me Oceanic has raised the prices beyond acceptable amounts.

On a side note most LFS don't make much money on Salt so there is no need to lie about it. Salt is already priced so high there mark up is very minimal.
OK... I'll bite.
Artificial saltmix is a staple of the hobby. To say that "LFS don't make much money on Salt so there is no need to lie about it. Salt is already priced so high there mark up is very minimal ", makes no sense. Do you know how much it costs to manufacture artificial seasalt... or what they're charging for it in Hawaii' (or my LFS for that matter)?
Most LFS's purchase saltmix in batches from their distributor(s). They can "buy high" or "buy low" (when it goes "on sale") usually multiple units at a a time.
I've seen saltmix for sale at one LFS for double the amount (or more) charged at another in the same city.
Bottom line:
Profit margins at the local retail level on saltmix depends on each individual LFS's purchasing/pricing savvy and business strategy (among other factors).
Incidentally- I've seen IO, 'Reef Crystals', and every popular saltmix blamed for outbreaks of Bryopsis and melting Xenia over the years.

[Jus Reefin]

Look people I didn't start this thread to argue about the price of salt at my LFS. I know first hand how much a few of my LFS pay for the salt cause I have seen the order slips. I am friends with many of my LFS owners and if they have to charge $70 for a 200g bucket then they won't carry the product any longer. I can only vouge for my LFS not some LFS in other states. I was paying $39.99 for a 200g bucket and someone else said they pay close to $70. Bottom line is I don't like Oceanic and I will be switching. I used IO for years with no problems, the moment I switch to
" the next best thing" all hell hit the fan and I have been battling it since. Like I said the price was just the straw that broke the camels back.

Peace
Rob

[Jus Reefin]

:mad:

Well I made the switch but have only done 2 WG about 15g each time. So far I have lost a Brain coral a very thriving growing Acan lord ( grew from 2 1/2 polyps to over 10+ polyps in 5 months) and almost lost Acan Echinata, It bleached and was showing skeleton. It looks to be coming back now. Needless to say I am not very happy at all and will be writing a letter to Oceanic to complain. ( more to make me feel good since I know they won't give a damn) Also lost 2 Acro frags

[kbmdale]

I have stopped using it....I went to reef crystals....MUCH BETTER water quality and seems to hole levels alot better.....But I never had anything really bad happen with oceanic. I wanted to try soemthing different

[Poolrad]

Jeez you guys pay a ton for salt. I pay $35 for 200g IO locally. No reason to buy anything else at that price..

[tjay]

I started with oceanic went to IO and had terrible problems keeping calcium up even dripping kalk
now I an using Marine Mix professional, dunno how it is going to work out yet.

[kbmdale]

Originally posted by Poolrad
Jeez you guys pay a ton for salt. I pay $35 for 200g IO locally. No reason to buy anything else at that price..

I pay 40 for a bucket of Reef crystals locally...

[Azurel]

I went to oceanic because I ran into a bad bag of Reef Crystals about 7 months ago. Well I went to my LFS which I am in very good terms with and took the last of the salt with me. I had a thread about it awhile ago. While I lost many corals because of this bad bag, I started to use oceanic and the problem began to stop.Well over the last 4 months of using oceanic I had an algea bloom along with diatom bloom(never had it before). My buds at the LFS talked to their dist. about my problem and after going to bat for me and getting into this guy's butt he sent me a free case of Reef Crystals 3 bags of 50g mix. So I have gone back slowly over the last month and the algea is starting to wane the diatoms are still around but will be going hopefully. My corals and clams have never looked better, I did lose a small maxima but my RBTA has split so I guess I'm even..I have done the switch back over a month or so, I would take it slow no reason to rush it and take a risk of killing any more stuff then you already have. Reef Crystals is like $48 a bucket locally....

[Jus Reefin]

I have been doing it slowly. I have only changed about 30g in a month on a 220g system. If I go any slower my water quality will be bad.

[Azurel]

I didn't realize I guess the size of you tank....I did like the high Ca of Oceanic....but alas it was not to be...Good luck with the switch over.

[kbmdale]

WOW a bad batch or reef crystals....SCARY...What tipped you off... I have had no problems so far but man I am gonna have to keep that in mind...

[schanz]

Is anyone else concerned about the high level of Mg in Oceanic? I use 50/50 oceanic and IO. No problems really, its just that my Mg is measuring 1500+. I need to see if there is a way to do a high-range test with my Salifert kit. To me, the Oceanic levels of Ca and Mg are ridiculous. I could understand those levels if you did not dose and you did water changes to get parameters back up. If you run a reactor or dose regularly, Oceanic will put you over the top.

Other than Mg inching higher and higher, I like the 50/50 mix. I do have a slight amount of diatoms that I've never had before since I started this.

[Freeskier98]

Switched from Oceanic to IO. Will never go back. Bye bye Algae

[Jus Reefin]

I originally started using it to stop dosing and due to how fast it disolved.

[Azurel]

Well the search is down but, I'll try in short tell ya....I have used Reef Crystals for about 13 years with no problums. The high rate of dyeing corals. I bought a hugh brain from Reefermadness.com it was about 6 inchs absolutly beautiful, we needless to say it melted away in a matter of 4 days to the point that it went from bright green to skeleton. I had a few other corals that died, a pink yuma, a colony of other yumas,a clam, a black cap basslet I got on my honeymoon. I had tested the water and I think the tests were bad in the end cause they were showing proper ranges. So I was to the point I wanted to dump the whole tank and give up, I had lost about $300 in corals in the period of 3 weeks. I had enough for 1 last water change of the bag of Reef Crystals. I took some water to LFS I go to and we tri tested the water with RO/DI, and with distilled(I was using distilled for changes) well needless to say the ph was around 10-12, the kh was of the charts of every test, dkh was also off the charts. Ca was correct all of this was at a sp gravity 1.025. So we made three batchs and tested all of them again and they all came out the same. So my tests were bad and the salt was buffering the water to the point that that it was beyond normal ranges and killing any new coral put in the tank, while the old in habitants except for the Black cap slowly began to get used to it. Well needless to say Oceanic help come back from that, but the algea bloom I am slowly killing of was not there before the change and the diatoms wern't there either. Ohh well that reefing live and learn....so now I'm useing the free reef crystals that the rep shipped me. I thought about trying Tropic marin...maybe when the reef crystals are gone.

[thereefgeek]

If all else fails....blame the salt mix.

edit: Rob, I hope it works out for you making the switch back to IO bro. The only thing Oceanic in my home is the tank (and I absolutely love it). Bruce has been trying to get me to switch, but since I've been using IO for 10 years and after all the talk here on RC I'm too big a chicken to switch to anything else. If it ain't broke...

[kbmdale]

Originally posted by thereefgeek
If all else fails....blame the salt mix.

and if that fails blame the sand....lol....


joking...

[Jus Reefin]

Well I can honestly blaim the SALT since there is no other reason or cause for my problems.

Used IO for 4 years, the first year of using Oceanic and the Algea Blooms were taking over the tank to the point I was ready to quit. Several test of my RO/DI water,filter changes and the water testing fine, little to no phosphates. Now after testing newly mixed salt water ( some tested right after mixing and some testing done 3 days after mixing) all produced higher Phosphate readings then my plain ol RO/DI water. The one thing I have noticed is the rate of Algea growth has slowed greatly since switching back and phosphate levels have dropped.

Bottom line it's my fault for making the switch to begin with ( if it ain't broke, don't fix it) but I'm still upset about my coral loss :)

[NYPD Frogman]

Originally posted by Wiskey
I used IO for a while and liked it,

Then I tried the "new thing" and went to oceaniac, I had problems with high CA, low ALK and low PH, this was when my tank was a softie tank.


I love IO and I am not going back.

Whiskey
I expierenced the same problem using oceanic salt, also I had detectable levels of PO4 with oceanic, I use RO water with a TDS of about 2PPM. when I found the PO4 I suspected the rubbermaid pail I use to mix so I tested the same salt, same RO/DI water in a food grade contianer and had the same results.
I use reef crystals now been changing 20gals weekly will proably do so for another month, than do 20 a month.

I used to use red sea salt but the LFS I used doesnt carry it any longre and the price did go up.

[beerguy]

Let me guess Capital?

They gave me the same line. I drove down to Exotic and got it for $39.99


Originally posted by Jus Reefin
My lfs was selling me the 200g bucket for $39.99 and said if they order any more it will be that price for the 50g jug. I know for a fact the LFS in my area make little to no profit on Salt. Now if they were selling to me for almost $70 a bucket i would know they were lying. To be honest at this point I could have a thousand people tell me they have no problems with Oceanic and even if the prices were not going up I still don't want to use it anymore. To many issues for me and the cost increase was the straw that broke the camels back

[Jus Reefin]

Actually it was O st. and Red Sea Aqaurium

[dannynguyen3573]

What is IO????

[Jus Reefin]

Insta Ocean

[impur]

I switched from oceanic to IO recently simply because of the lower alk in oceanic. I read about most SPS keepers using IO and the higher alk. I do weekly WCs on my 29 gal with a total water volume of about 40gal. After a month of using IO i could not get alk above 7dKH. I was dosing almost 2 teaspoons of baking soda a day. On top of that my calcium was constantly low around 360ppm. So i dosed 30mL b-ionic daily. This is in addition to dosing a gallon of kalk per day. I decided to test the new batch alone. I got a reading of 3dKH alk and 280ppm calcium!!! I couldn't believe it, did 2 more tests came out the same and then took a sample to 2 seperate LFS. Same result. I threw the salt away and got more oceanic. In total i ended up losing 3 SPS colonies.

[Phillips]

Reading through this thread, it sounds like several people have come across bad batches from different brands...kinda scary if you ask me. Unless I counted wrong, people have bought bad batches of Oceanic, Reff Crystals & IO.

I really don't like the idea of playing Russian roulette w/ my tank.

I personally have used Oceanic w/o any problems since I bought several bags of a really bad batch of IO a few years ago. I don't have any problems with Oceanic. It does have a lower alkalinity, around NSW levels, but my tank is doing really well. Only problems I have are w/ my corals trying to smother or sting each other to death.

[mothra]

Hey Rob, sorry to hear about the headaches and losses. I too have been wondering about some algae in my tank that has never really gone away, and if it's related to Oceanic. I tested my PO4 of fresh mixed saltwater using Salifert and it was about .1 (or .01?...don't recall, it was the lowest reading besides 0).

For those that tested the PO4 of your fresh salt water - what reading did you get (and what brand salt)?

I do like Oceanic otherwise. I drip kalkwasser so my CA is 460-480, ALK is right about 3 m/eq, and PH 8.1-8.2. I've heard that Kent salt puts up pretty good numbers in both CA and ALK but I have never really looked into it, I don't think any of my LFS carry it anyway. Anyone using it?

[fish_taste_good]

why switch if everything is ok?

[Jus Reefin]

Originally posted by fish_taste_good
why switch if everything is ok?

If you read the post it is explained

[thrlride]

So you get algae from oceanic after switching from IO. Sounds like a good example of blaming oceanic. But then you switch back to IO and your corals start to die and it is oceanic's fault?

Did I read that right?

[kite]

You guys get ripped on salt. :eek2: I pay 13 bucks for a bag the size of my dogs body. (golden retriever). The bag is about 20~lbs.

You people are getting money sucked out of you :worried2:

[Jus Reefin]

Originally posted by thrlride
So you get algae from oceanic after switching from IO. Sounds like a good example of blaming oceanic. But then you switch back to IO and your corals start to die and it is oceanic's fault?

Did I read that right?

I guess you didn't read it right and obviously have not read much on the subject since many, many others have had the same issues.

I used IO for 5+ years with no Algea problems what so ever. 1 month after switching to Oceanic I had a ton of Algea. If I test my RO/DI water and it test good but I test my Oceanic SW and it has higher Phosphate reading who else is too blame???? Not to be rude but I would suggest reading up more before putting words in someones mouth. Like I said it's no ones fault but my own for switching in the first place.

Since people seem to think the Salt has nothing to do with perfectly healthy corals dieing 24-48hrs after a WG or having a Algea free Reef for 5+ years then I switch salts and all hell breaks loose, I would love suggestions on what else it could be.

[thrlride]

I agree that if you had no problems for years and then switch to Oceanic and all of a sudden have problems that the salt is the #1 candidate. My comment was more to this:

Originally posted by Jus Reefin
:mad:

Well I made the switch but have only done 2 WG about 15g each time. So far I have lost a Brain coral a very thriving growing Acan lord ( grew from 2 1/2 polyps to over 10+ polyps in 5 months) and almost lost Acan Echinata, It bleached and was showing skeleton. It looks to be coming back now. Needless to say I am not very happy at all and will be writing a letter to Oceanic to complain. ( more to make me feel good since I know they won't give a damn) Also lost 2 Acro frags

You didn't say a thing (IIRC) about losing corals on Oceanic, only when you switched BACK to IO but you blame Oceanic for the losses.

That's what I was commenting on. BTW, since I use oceanic I've read a lot about people having trouble. :)

FWIW, I've read when switching from Oceanic to IO (or any salt change) you should really go slow. Like do four parts old salt to one part new salt and then do small water changes slowly upping the dosage of new vs. old.

This is just a general question for anyone that may be educated on the subject:

Why would he suffer coral loss when switching salt? Is it a chemical reaction between the two salts or just the change of salt in general? If it is just a switch in salt does that mean if a LFS uses Oceanic and you have IO the coral will die?

Or is it the chemical reaction idea?

[impur]

There has to be some other things involved than just the salt. You touch on a good point in that not every LFS or wholesaler uses the same salts. But we do not lose the corals we buy from them even if going from one salt to the next.

[Jus Reefin]

FWIW my feelings are it has to do with the mixture of the different chemicals in the 2 salts. I have talked to a few people that have went from IO to Oceanic and had some coral loss. My main beef with Oceanic is the Algea problem not the Coral loss. I knew the risk involved when I switched back to IO

On a side note I have set up a 30g tank using IO and have placed several Algea Infested Rocks in that tank to see if it will die or if I will have the same problems. This will really help me to make a conclusion in my mind.

[mothra]

Rob - keep us updated on the progress of your main tank w/ the salt switch. I know it can be a pain with the direction these threads start to go in but I'd really like to know how your main tank is doing in the next month or two, and I hope there are no more losses.

[Jus Reefin]

I will deff. keep you updated Jacob

Peace

[Phillips]

impur said:

There has to be some other things involved than just the salt. You touch on a good point in that not every LFS or wholesaler uses the same salts. But we do not lose the corals we buy from them even if going from one salt to the next.

I think impur has a good point. There might be something else going on when people lose corals after a WC w/ a new salt mix.

Or maybe some companies aren't being up front w/ us about how long a new batch of ASW needs to sit & stabilize before it can be added to an established tank w/o adverse effects???

I changed to Oceanic from IO a few years ago after the IO became too harsh to add after dissolving completely (plus there was something nasty, white and insoluble in there) .

I like Oceanic because I can do a 15-20% water change within 10 minutes of dissolving the salt. If I ever need to do an emergency water change (like when something dies unexpectedly or I spill kalk in the tank after too many martinis) I like to have a salt mix on hand I can use within minutes.

[Sullivmw]

Originally posted by kite
You guys get ripped on salt. :eek2: I pay 13 bucks for a bag the size of my dogs body. (golden retriever). The bag is about 20~lbs.



You only get 20lbs out of a bag the size of a golden retriever ?????????

[thrlride]

Small golden retriever. :)

[Sullivmw]

:lol::lol: :lol:

[Black71gp]

pretty sure i can get the 20 lbs bags for lik 9 bucks.. but we are talking about the big five+ gallon pales that make salt for like 160 or 200 gallons.. for 32 bucks for the IO 160 pal.. that works for me.. might wanna re check your salt prices...

[Black71gp]

stupid double post......ggggrrrr

[bevis28]

Why would he suffer coral loss when switching salt? Is it a chemical reaction between the two salts or just the change of salt in general? If it is just a switch in salt does that mean if a LFS uses Oceanic and you have IO the coral will die?

Or is it the chemical reaction idea?


I have been waiting for someone to ask and answer this question. so does anyone have any definitive answer as to why this occures. or is it just user mistakes / coincidence ?

[thrlride]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8832230#post8832230 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bevis28
Why would he suffer coral loss when switching salt? Is it a chemical reaction between the two salts or just the change of salt in general? If it is just a switch in salt does that mean if a LFS uses Oceanic and you have IO the coral will die?

Or is it the chemical reaction idea?


I have been waiting for someone to ask and answer this question. so does anyone have any definitive answer as to why this occures. or is it just user mistakes / coincidence ?

That raises a great question about LFS's using different salts. I have no idea why if all the important things we check for are spot on that some suffer losses anyway.

I guess that goes to show how little we know about these things.