Phoenix 14 K 250 DE--- How is the growth

[bond007069]

OK so how is the growth?
250 watt DE

SPS and LPS

Would 10 K give better growth.

I have 440 VHO supplement 2 blue 2 whites

Anyone have Sanjay's aticles. Does he give values for Phoenix?

[LittleBlueGT]

Also curious.

[TwistedTiger]

Originally posted by bond007069
OK so how is the growth?
250 watt DE

SPS and LPS

Would 10 K give better growth.

I have 440 VHO supplement 2 blue 2 whites

Anyone have Sanjay's aticles. Does he give values for Phoenix?

From what I read before I bought my Phoenix 14k's you will get better growth from the 10k's although I don't think it will be tremendously better. I have not been running the 14 k's long enough to tell the difference in growth yet but they definitely look much much better without VHO supplementation. I was looking for a bulb that gave good growth and didn't require the extra VHO. Sanjay has some bulb comparisons for 150w 14k using an Aqua Connect which many are saying is the same bulb as the Phoenix 14k. Below is a link to that article. I hope it gives you the info you need.

Phoenix=Auqa Connect? (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2004/review.htm)

[spshead]

i dont know about the growth factor but all i know is ever since i put in the aquaconnects i would never buy anything else. I have been interested in the pheonix 14k 250 watt de bulbs but i am not sure if they pack the wow factor when running them. I do know the aquaconnects do

[TwistedTiger]

Originally posted by spshead
i dont know about the growth factor but all i know is ever since i put in the aquaconnects i would never buy anything else. I have been interested in the pheonix 14k 250 watt de bulbs but i am not sure if they pack the wow factor when running them. I do know the aquaconnects do

Not sure exactly what you mean by the "wow factor" unless you are talking about there appearance, but I am really satisfied with the blue/white look they give without VHO's. It is a major difference from the 10k's I was running I just hope I continue to get good growth. What type of growth are you getting using the 14k's as compared to the 10k's?

[prodman]

The pheonix tested the same as the aquaconnects.

[The Grim Reefer]

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/select2lamp.php

That is the link for Sanjay's lighting page. The Aquaconnect and Phoenix are so close I'd say whichever is less money would be the way to go. The Phoenix has a tich more PAR but not enough to worry about,

[wfgworks]

The growth is better with a 10K but not by much. I ran Ushio 10K for about 10 months and got good growth.

When I switched to the Phoenix, the growth slowed a little (NOT MUCH) but the color I get with these bulbs, makes up for loss in growth.

[bond007069]

I have had Hamiltons 14 K and how Phoenix 14. Too early to see growth yet, i just changed bulbs.

But i really do like bluer color. Combo with 440 watt VHO two blue two white.

This bulb is a lot for eye appealing than the Hamilton, i like a slighlty blue tank, and the Hamilton's were not cutting it.

[RustySnail]

The Phoenix 14K is almost a direct-replacement for the Hamilton 14K; it's PPFD is only 4 points higher than the Hamilton. Same holds true for the Aquaconnect 14k. These 3 bulbs could almost be considered "direct replacement". It appears that they are modeled after the Radium 20k; there is slight differences in the spectral plot, but mostly the same.

Something interesting to note is that the Aquaconnect SE lamp shows a higher spectral intensity than the shielded DE. Not sure why this is; maybe it's a better UV glass that blocks less yellow/red spectrum.

[wfgworks]

RustySnail

Where are you getting numbers for a Hamilton 14K DE bulb?

[RustySnail]

Hamilton is listed as a SE lamp on Sanjay's page. If you run the SE Hamilton against a shielded Phoenix you get spectral plots that are nearly identical. I would assume that you get the same result using a DE Hamilton lamp against a DE Phoenix.

[wfgworks]

Bulbs are very different when made into DE vs SE. They dont keep the same spectral plots.

Example: AB bulb as an SE has a Color temp around 13K, but as a DE bulb it has a color temp around 8K.

[RustySnail]

The differences between SE vs DE lamps in spectrum/intensity/color are marginal at best. The difference between SE vs. DE in terms of light distribution in the tank is due to the reflector (the DE's create a more intense spot directly beneath them). Go do some comparisons on Sanjays website; I think you will be convinced of this if you do the side-by-side comparisons...

[The Grim Reefer]

Straight from Sanjay's web site

AB 250 watt 10K lamps. DE 104 PAR, 8225 corrected color temp. SE 130 PAR, 7377 Color temp. XM 10K 250 watt lamps, DE 109 PAR and color temp 7026, SE 182 PAR and 9921 Color temp. Those measurments are tanken without reflectors so that has no baring on the results. That is a lot more than a marginal difference. The reflectors might make up for some intensity but not the color temp.

[RustySnail]

Is the SE lamps you list an HQI? You are using the HQI ballast for those numbers; which would make a non-HQI SE lamp run at higher par, lower color temp (with reduced lifespan).

If you compare the lamps with an e-ballast you will get similar performance numbers...

[LittleBlueGT]

Originally posted by RustySnail
Is the SE lamps you list an HQI? You are using the HQI ballast for those numbers; which would make a non-HQI SE lamp run at higher par, lower color temp (with reduced lifespan).

If you compare the lamps with an e-ballast you will get similar performance numbers...

No you won't. I have DE Geissman 13K Ushio 10K and AB 10K bulbs. I have tried them all on electronic and magnetic ballasts. There is no way the AB is a 13K lamp it doesn't matter which ballast. De vs SE there is a difference.

:) :) :)

[RustySnail]

littlesilvermax-

I was strictly referring to the lamp/combo that was posted earlier; not AB, not Geissman, Ushio or XM.

The Hamilton, Phoenix, Aquaconnect, Radium all show very close spectral plots on Sanjay's website when running on an Icecap/shieled if DE. So similar you could almost call them 'quadruplets' ;)

[The Grim Reefer]

XM 10K DE on Ice Cap ballast 95 PAR, 7097 color. SE 115 PAR, 11543 color. PAR get closer and temp color changed radically using electromic ballast. Earlier figures were with an HQI on both.

For a true apples to apples comparison the SE on a standard magnetic ballast is 137 PAR and 12083 vs. 95 and 7097.

[LittleBlueGT]

I agree that there are simliarities. The Hamilton and AC for example still have a significantly different curve. The ACs have a lot more below 440 then the Hammy and a different curve above 500. They do all have a similiar 450 spike.

Earlier you said, "The differences between SE vs DE lamps in spectrum/intensity/color are marginal at best. " If you compare Sanjay's graphs you will find a huge difference on some DE vs SE lamps that you would normally think would be the same.

[bond007069]

Originally posted by The Grim Reefer
XM 10K DE on Ice Cap ballast 95 PAR, 7097 color. SE 115 PAR, 11543 color. PAR get closer and temp color changed radically using electromic ballast. Earlier figures were with an HQI on both.

For a true apples to apples comparison the SE on a standard magnetic ballast is 137 PAR and 12083 vs. 95 and 7097.


I did not think you could run DE XM's on IC electronic ballasts

[deansreef]

I have been running the 14k pheonix 250w de bulbs for about 3 months now, color and growth are quite nice

[wfgworks]

You cant.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by deansreef
I have been running the 14k pheonix 250w de bulbs for about 3 months now, color and growth are quite nice

As far as I know all 250 watt ballasts claim to be able to run SE and DE. Sanjay was able to run DE lamps on the Ice Cap ballast he had.

[bond007069]

Check this Icecap forum.... i dont beleive you can. XM's are claimed to need magnetic ballasts to overdrive them

Make sense

[wfgworks]

YOU CANNOT RUN XMDE BULBS OFF AN ICECAP BALLAST

They will fire up sometimes an other times they wont. I also believe if they do fire up, they are not running at the recommended wattage.

[The Grim Reefer]

According to Ice Cap the old style ballast might cause slight flickering on DE lamps but will fire them. XM's are supposedly designed with a Mag ballast in mind but will run on an electronic ballast as well. They just wont run at the same power level.