need coral list advice!!

[hlama]

hey everyone how are you doing? i just started to get my corals list going. i have a first draft and need a little advice on it. i will have a good size fish load. all the fish and creatures are going to stay. i need help with the corals. i have done research on them but not real sure which ones can touch with no issues. so please any advice on the corals is very much needed. ok here is my system the corals are listed below the creature list.

Tank……: 72x18x20H acrylic

Filtration..: 45 gal. Sump with 30lbs of Miracle Mud and growing
red Gracilaria
: 20 inch Coralife 18watt T5 10k light going 24/7.
: Sedra 1200gph and 586gph (total of 1786gph)
pumps for the sump return
: 2- Penguin 550 Powerheads (Marineland)45gph.
ea. (in main tank)

Lighting.....: 2- Icecap 660 Electronic Ballasts.
: 6-80watt 60� T5HO lights divided as follows:
; 2 - 6000K ATI Sun bulbs
; 1 - 6500K GE Starcoat bulb
; 2 – ATI True Actinic bulbs
; 1 - 11K ATI Aqua Blue bulb

Fish List:

1-Green clown goby (Gobioudon atrangulatrus)
1-Yellow clown goby (Gobioudon okiwawee)
5-Dispar anthias (Mirolabrichthys dispar)
2-Lineatus fairy wrasse (Cirrhilabrus lineatus)
1-Canary blenny (Meiacanthus ovalaunensis)
1-Regal angel (Pygoplites diacanthus )
2-False percula clown (Amphiprion ocellaris)
1-Kole yellow eye tang (Ctenochaetus strigosus )


Creatures:

2-Cleaner shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis))
1-Electric blue hermit crab (Calcinus elegans)
5-Zebra hermit crabs (Calcinus laevimanus)
5-Red legged mexican hermit crab (Clibanarius digueti)
1-Red flame serpent starfish (Ophioderma rubicundum)
1-Tiger serpent starfish (Ophiolepsis superba)
2- Turbo snail mexican (Turbo fluctuosa)
10-Nassarius snail (Nassarius vibex)
10-Turbo snails (Turbo fluctuosa)

Corals:

LPS
White bubble (Plerogyra sp.)
Elegance (Catalaphyllia jardinei)
Cynarina button (Cynarina sp.)
Candy cane (Caulastrea furcata)
Orange tube (Tubastrea aurea)
Lobophyllia brain (Lobophyllia spp.)
Red open brain (Trachyphyllia geoffroyi )

SPS
Blue Acropora (Acropora sp.)
Birdsnest (Seriatopora hystrix)
Merulina (Merulina ampliata)

Leather
Carnation tree (Dendronephthya sp.)
Yellow Fiji leather (Sarcophyton elegans)
Toadstool leather (Sarcophyton sp.)
Green tree (Nepthea sp.)

Misc. Coral
Red finger gorgonia (Diodogorgia nodulifera)
Green lace gorgonia (Gorgonia species)
Blue mushroom (Actinodiscus sp.)
2-Feather duster (Sabellastarte sp.)
2- Dwarf colored feather duster (Bispira sp.)

Clams
Crocea clam (Tridacna crocea)
Maxima clam (Tridacna maxima)


so any have any advice on the corals???????

[suzstephens]

I'd be cautious about your Regal angel, especially with LPS corals and most especially with Lobophyllia and the various open brain corals such as Trachyphyllia. I'm not sure of whether they nip at clams; would bear further research. As far as I know, only the Genicanthus species angels are totally reefsafe.

If you haven't done so already, give some thought to the light requirements of the various corals on your list and where you're going to place them. The blue mushrooms, for example, will prefer lower lighting.

Ditto for feeding requirements: will providing sufficient food to inverts like feather dusters and to the non-photosymbiotic gorgonia, tubastrea and the carnation coral mess up your water chemistry for sps corals?

Basically, you've got a broad variety of corals that naturally inhabit a broad variety of reef environments. While it's not impossible to mix corals like that, you'll have to give it a lot of thought.

Liveaquaria.com has fairly good info on fish/coral compatibility, care, etc.

Elegance corals are notoriously difficult; some people have really good luck with them, others don't. See Eric Borneman's forum here on reefcentral.com for info on his elegance coral project/research. Also, if you don't already have it, I'd recommending buying and reading his Aquarium Corals book before buying any corals. His book has lots of info on coral toxicity; you'll want to be familiar with it before placing certain corals in close proximity. Plus, I would recommend addition of a really good skimmer to your system before mixing corals with potent toxic secretions with more sensitive corals.

Both the Tridacna clams you've listed can be difficult to keep. I'd start with a Maxima, then add a Crocea if the Maxima does well long-term.

[CrystalAZ]

I second everything suzstephens said. :)

Plus, you may want to think twice about gorgonians. I don't know about other tanks, but in mine, my tang won't allow a gorgonian. He loves to eat them.

I also suggest that you get a MUCH larger cleanup crew for such a big tank. I'd probably get 40-50 nassarius, 20 turbos, and a bunch of smaller snails... maybe 40-50 ceriths and some nerites. I'd also suggest the "micro hermits". They stay small and you can easily throw 100 or so in your tank. They are great algae and detritus munchers.

Otherwise, sounds interesting! Rather than plan out every detail, keep in mind your must-have items and build the rest of the tank around that. You will change your mind and find things you didn't know you wanted as you go along. :D

Crystal

[Potsy]

Don't add that cleaning crew all at once or you'll have die-off from starvation - especially with the nassarius as they feed on meaty foods. Just get a few at a time. If you can avoid hermit crabs, then go without them. You'll be surprised just how long snails can live in captivity without the menacing presence of hermits. Your tiger serpent star will easily take care of all the uneaten food in your aquarium when it reaches full size. If you're going with a sandbed, order a detrivore kit containing amphipods and bristleworms: they're all excellent scavengers.

My four year old aquarium contains only astrea snails and two small hermit crabs that I keep because I think they're amusing. I also have hundreds of mini-brittle stars, amphibods, and bristleworms that do the dirty work. None of these animals will attack snails, and an added benefit is that they periodically contribute plankton to the aquarium when they breed which benefits your corals. I've never had a nuisance algae outbreak.

Also, I had a cleaner shrimp for three years and when it died I had a much easier time feeding my corals and anemone. It would have the annoying habit of stealing food from the coral's mouths.

After you have a nice community of fish going, then add the nassarius to immediately eat any uneaten meaty food.

Get a batch of halimeda algae and put it behind your rocks for nutrient export. They're also a very attractive macroalgae and don't grow out of control and "go sexual" like caulerpa.

[hlama]

Originally posted by suzstephens


first let me just say thanks for the reply.


I'd be cautious about your Regal angel, especially with LPS corals and most especially with Lobophyllia and the various open brain corals such as Trachyphyllia. I'm not sure of whether they nip at clams; would bear further research. As far as I know, only the Genicanthus species angels are totally reefsafe.

-yeah i am aware of the regal angel. they usually dont mess with corals but if they do they go for Xenia and Acropora type corals. not a big fan of those type coral so willing to stock around the angel. pygme angels go for the open brain type corals more. thanks for the heads up though.here is a good link for angels.http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2003/Fish.htm they have other articles to. (not trying to prove you wrong or anything just scratching your back as you scratch mine):beer:



If you haven't done so already, give some thought to the light requirements of the various corals on your list and where you're going to place them. The blue mushrooms, for example, will prefer lower lighting.

-done it. thought about the lighting as well as currents when thinking about there placement. this thinking in part is why i have a such a varity of coral types.



Ditto for feeding requirements: will providing sufficient food to inverts like feather dusters and to the non-photosymbiotic gorgonia, tubastrea and the carnation coral mess up your water chemistry for sps corals?

-my filtration system will provide plenty of plakton and other foods for them.the sump and tank already have very large populations of pods and things. the tank will be going about 1 1/2 years before any coral go in.



Basically, you've got a broad variety of corals that naturally inhabit a broad variety of reef environments. While it's not impossible to mix corals like that, you'll have to give it a lot of thought.

-yes i thought about this most of the ones i am getting are collected in the same region. that should help with any noxous stuff released by the corals as they have been exposed to eachother in there natural enviorment.i hope anyway



Liveaquaria.com has fairly good info on fish/coral compatibility, care, etc.

-very good site for the basics. i use it alot. i also use this link it goes way more into the advanced care, haditat and behavior of individuals. very informative.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/index.htm another site i use has mass info(almost too much). http://www.wetwebmedia.com/



Elegance corals are notoriously difficult; some people have really good luck with them, others don't. See Eric Borneman's forum here on reefcentral.com for info on his elegance coral project/research. Also, if you don't already have it, I'd recommending buying and reading his Aquarium Corals book before buying any corals. His book has lots of info on coral toxicity; you'll want to be familiar with it before placing certain corals in close proximity. Plus, I would recommend addition of a really good skimmer to your system before mixing corals with potent toxic secretions with more sensitive corals.

-yup i read though that forum. now i know little bit more on what to look at when buying it. i will look for that book sounds like a real good one and one that i need thanks. no skimmer it will take out the plankton and other foods for the corals and fish. might use carbon 12-20 hours per week if i start to have probs with nitrates or phosphates. if i get probs with silicates i will just grow some sponges in the sump.


Both the Tridacna clams you've listed can be difficult to keep. I'd start with a Maxima, then add a Crocea if the Maxima does well long-term.

-na, not a rookie delicate coral/fish no worries. tank will be going about 2 years before the clams go in. first time useing T5s though. i did par readings at 18" deep under the water line and they where right about the same as 250w 10k MH. i know most of the corals that need room or can not be touched. but dont know which ones are cool enough to touch eachother. i know some are peaceful but still not sure if they can touch or who they can touch. hope you know what i mean.

[hlama]

Originally posted by Potsy


nice post thanks a lot good info.

Don't add that cleaning crew all at once or you'll have die-off from starvation - especially with the nassarius as they feed on meaty foods. Just get a few at a time. If you can avoid hermit crabs, then go without them. You'll be surprised just how long snails can live in captivity without the menacing presence of hermits. Your tiger serpent star will easily take care of all the uneaten food in your aquarium when it reaches full size. If you're going with a sandbed, order a detrivore kit containing amphipods and bristleworms: they're all excellent scavengers.

-not planning on it. here is a privious post from me with my plan.http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=591892 the list has changed but not the plan.



My four year old aquarium contains only astrea snails and two small hermit crabs that I keep because I think they're amusing. I also have hundreds of mini-brittle stars, amphibods, and bristleworms that do the dirty work. None of these animals will attack snails, and an added benefit is that they periodically contribute plankton to the aquarium when they breed which benefits your corals. I've never had a nuisance algae outbreak.

- i bleive your right my sandbed will not be alive though and only 1/2' deep. i do have a huge population of pods and things in the main tank and refugium already no corals will go in for about 1 1/2 years.



Also, I had a cleaner shrimp for three years and when it died I had a much easier time feeding my corals and anemone. It would have the annoying habit of stealing food from the coral's mouths.

-lol yup they do that. i usually hand feed them just before i feed any corals. and my refugium should provide plenty of plankton and stuff as i am not useing a skimmer to remove it.


After you have a nice community of fish going, then add the nassarius to immediately eat any uneaten meaty food.

-humm i might hold back on them then and do just that.


Get a batch of halimeda algae and put it behind your rocks for nutrient export. They're also a very attractive macroalgae and don't grow out of control and "go sexual" like caulerpa.

-i am using red graciaria tikvanhie in the sump for export. have halimeda tuna in the main tank but dont think it will last when i add the tang. hope it does though.

[hlama]

Originally posted by CrystalAZ
I second everything suzstephens said. :)

Otherwise, sounds interesting! Rather than plan out every detail, keep in mind your must-have items and build the rest of the tank around that. You will change your mind and find things you didn't know you wanted as you go along. :D

Crystal

yes i am doing just that. i have a few i am going to keep no matter what. i am stocking around them with corals that can go in the left over spots based on there current, aggression and lighting needs. willing to swap these ones out with another coral that will be happy in the same place. FYI i have a wholesale lic. (never sold a fish or coral) for about 5 years now. allows me to get the best choice and very very low prices. aslo prevents me from impulse buying.:D most of the time:rolleyes:

[Michael7979]

Scanned over all that was posted and didn't see anyone say anything about yellow clown gobies nipping at sps' polyps. i have read posts elsewhere to this happening. Just a thought.

[suzstephens]

My recommendation of a skimmer was to deal with toxic or alleopathic exudates. Cramming a lot of diverse species into an aquarium is lots different from incompatible species living in a natural reef enviroment, where millions of gallons of water washes away the exudates and waste products.

Unless I misunderstand what you're saying, collected from the same region doesn't mean much. Even if you happen to know that the LFS bought the coral from a wholesaler who imported the coral from, for example, Fiji or the Solomon Islands, that info is basically useless. You need to take into consideration the natural habitat *within a reef* of each coral. For example, Elegance corals and the various open brain corals thrive in the sandy, nutrient rich, turbid lagoon areas of the backslope of a reef, which has lower water flow, warmer water, and worse visibility (ie, more diffuse light) than, for example, the reef crest.

The reef crest, with its crashing waves, cooler nutrient-poor water and high light levels is home to rugged stony corals. The soft tissues of the LPS corals listed above would be "sunburned" and ripped to shreds by such conditions.

Borneman's book describes the various reef zones in great detail and also describes the natural habitats and aquarium care of many coral species.

It would also be difficult for most retailers to know for sure where its corals originated. If I were to buy from Pacific Aqua Farms (Walt Smith) on Friday, I might receive corals from 3 flights they get in on Thursday, from, for example, the Marshall Islands, Fiji and the Solomon Islands. I can assure you that the wholesale distributors, working at breakneck speed to get shipments out daily, would pay little attention to trying to fill orders with corals from only one region. The retailer will be happy if his or her order simply remotely resembles what he or she originally ordered, as wholesalers are notorious for being unable to fill orders exactly as specified. Visualize a handful of employees in a relatively small company trying to unpack, acclimate, repack and ship out thousands of corals, inverts and livestock to hundreds of stores, all within 24 hours and you'll probably understand the situation better.

I would recommend that you put off buying ANY non-photosymbiotic coral until you are sure you are ready to provide the target feedings that they require to stay alive. That category includes carnation corals and many gorgonia. Your tanks nutrient load may be insufficient for them; most require supplemental target feeding.

Also, it is usually recommended not to let any corals touch each other as most experience at least some negative reaction to being touched by neighboring colonies. With experience, you'll find that some get along fine. For example, my Trachyphyllia and Scolymia constantly drift about and often end up snuggled next to each other to no apparent ill effect. Yet I've have seen Lobophyllia **severely** burn nearby Trachypyllia even thought they are similar in appearance.

[hlama]

Originally posted by Michael7979
Scanned over all that was posted and didn't see anyone say anything about yellow clown gobies nipping at sps' polyps. i have read posts elsewhere to this happening. Just a thought.


i have heard something about that too. but i have had many yellow clown in my tanks and never had a problem. i only have 3 sps in mind i think i can live with him nipping a little. i have one in my 20 gal nano. it lives in my open brain. sleeps with it at night too. plus i love there personalities. awsome little fish IMO. the others that i have had in a tank with a open brain have all taken to it in the same way. never had a green one before though.i have heard about them being bad for the rocks or somethings but never heard anything specific about them. what sps corals do they like? or did you hear about? think i need i to look it to this a bit. i want to keep them and depending on what they like to nip at i might need to make a choice, if that be the case. thanks for the heads up. what i really need to know is about the corals.
i know most of ones that need room and can not be touched.
but not sure about the more peaceful ones. which ones are cool with being touched and by who. hope wveryone know what i am trying to say here.

[hlama]

Originally posted by suzstephens
Also, it is usually recommended not to let any corals touch each other as most experience at least some negative reaction to being touched by neighboring colonies. With experience, you'll find that some get along fine. For example, my Trachyphyllia and Scolymia constantly drift about and often end up snuggled next to each other to no apparent ill effect. Yet I've have seen Lobophyllia **severely** burn nearby Trachypyllia even thought they are similar in appearance.


nice thanks, this is what i am looking for.(FYI i have a wholesale lic. for about 5 years now.never sold a fish or coral, i hook up my friends though, but get top choices of corals that came form the same region only buy dry goods from LFS. one wholesaler i go to does a real good job of getting my orders togather and holding them tell order is complete) i am going to get that book do you know if it comes hard back. or where did you get it. in the book store or did you have to order online?
so you think my coral load of filter feeders is a bit heavy, i was thinking that too. do you have any ideas on which ones are the more demanding or recommend leaveing any out?? hey tanks for the help again way cool.:smokin: