MH Combo Fixture WARS!

[FastUno]

Time to make some important decisions here. Below is a list of MH Combo fixtures, looking to you guys for help in making the big choice.
Do you have any experiences with the following fixtures?
What are the pros/cons?
Can you recommend an alternative one?

My main focus, other than everything else, would be heat. I know there are fixtures out there that do not produce as much heat. I hear from certain reefers that their MH do not run as hot, while others say it boils the tank. I would have paid closer attention had I known that I would one day be interested in MH.
What is the best way to setup a MH system & not have to purchase a chiller? Is there such a possibility?

Did I leave any good ones out?

Aquamedic Oceanlight:
I don't see any fans on this one, but the price is just right. Perhaps fans can be mounted peripherally.
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=AM-75046&Category_Code=Oceanlight-T5

Aquactinics:
These have fans.
http://www.aquactinics.com/Store/Lighting_Systems.htm

Maristar:
Also have fans.
http://www.sunlightsupply.com/aquarium/products/lighting_fixture-combo.shtml

PFO Shimmer light:
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=PFO-48SL10250&Category_Code=PFOshim

[moonpod]

PFO acrolight
Giesemann fixtures

[TimberTDI]

I like the maristar system

Do you definitely want to go with a hood? Maybe hood and retro system?

[Versus]

if you are avoiding heat i suggest you dont even bother looking at the aquamedic or maristars.

pfo acrolight fixture or the aquatinics.

you might want to avoid supplement lighting to reduce heat also .. so no t5's or vho's and just go with 14k/20k bulbs of good quality imo

[TimberTDI]

You should be able to find a brand of 20k lighting that looks appeasing to you.

[chevegan]

are you sick of your t5's?

[FastUno]

Not really sick of them, just want to have the MH experience & to do a little compare & contrast. T5's do really have their place. Plus, I've got shimmer envy!

After deciding on fixture, next comes 175W or 250W. I might only choose 175W because of heat issues, but I know that if I would choose 250's that I would be set otherwise. I would do 13K or >.
Would be nice to have 4 T5's, so if it gets too hot, then I can only run the T5's.

From what I have read & heard thus far I would place these fixtures in this order when heat conscerns apply:

Aquactinics
PFO Shimmer light
Maristar
Aquamedic Oceanlight

Anyone else know of a magical fixture that "lifts" the heat & carries it away?


moonpod, what is so special about PFO Acrolight?
TimberTDI, no hood. I don't like them & want an open tank top.

[moonpod]

acrolight is the DE version of the PFO hood. Other than that, I imagine it's the same as the "shimmerlight".

Frankly, no MH system "magically" lifts heat away. The way you get the heat away is to run a fan under the hood (between the tank and the hood) and of course the open top setup you are envisioning. If you have big fans in the hood itself cooling the bulbs, they don't run at the right color temp, or they aren't really doing much at all. You can run a small fan to cool the fluorescents, but it doesn't have all that much impact on the overall heat output of the fixture.

[FastUno]

What is the scoop on SE vs DE bulbs.
How much in terms of par does a 150W DE produce when compared to a 175W or 250W SE? Take the best DE type reflector to mind.

What happened to a 175W DE bulb? Are they out there, do they exist? Why do we not see 175W DE fixture choices?

I am keeping mostly softies & LPS, with some SPS. SPS's such as monti caps, monti dig, pocillipora, hydnophora...etc. Thea easy to care for ones.

[FastUno]

I don't believe that they do not run at the right color temp. Photons will hit the objects regardless of wind or not. Perhaps, if anything the coil in the bulb will not raise to a higher temp that is needed to produce the correct spectral output, but I still find this harder to believe. Have any tests on this been done?

Here is a sad analogy- at the beach it can be very windy & sunny, yet you will still get a sunburn. I know, I know completely two different things, but if you think of photos being released vs direct hit, wind should have no effect. Heating coil might be compromised though?

[bergzy]

mh do not have a filament that glows like an incandescent bulb. the two bulbs work very differently.

i agree with chuck that there is no mh system that magically lifts heat away from a system. i do notice though that a pendant system adds less heat overall. it is a good thing in this case that heat rises and without a hood to hold it in, some residual heat 'magically' ;) rises out of your system. of course, there are other factors like ambient room temp that will increase or decrease your tanks temp.

where i live, it is oh so common for outside temps to go into the 100's. i am not a big fan of ac in the house except the hottest days. this is where a chiller for my tank is really, really important. when it is 95 degrees outside and you are running halides, pendant or not...without central air, your system will cook.

for halide combo's...my choices would be giesemann's first, maristar/pfo acrolight second and, oh i don't know what for third...

[moonpod]

MH bulbs need to reach a certain temp to burn at the specified color temp. It is very, very different than incandescent or fluorescent.

[Horace]

They do sell 175w fixtures. In fact ODESSEA sells a VERY VERY inexpensive unit. They have a big following too actually. Here is the link --> http://www.aquatraders.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=24 for $329 + $45 shipping this is a pretty sweet unit.

[newmoon]

I love my Maristar fixture. Built like a tank

[FastUno]

Why arent all the big boys selling 175W DE fixtures?

I would get a chiller in a heartbeat, but I live in a CO-OP & the noise will be too loud. Too much vibration. Any truly silent chillers out there?

[newmoon]

There's another ways to keep the tank cool without needing a chiller. A fan blowing at water surface(on top of the tank or in the sump water surface) sometimes it's all that you need.

[moonpod]

Because 175w DE is an abberation. It typically means using a 150/175w electronic ballast to run a 150w DE bulb.

[FastUno]

Fans I would have to experiment with, means more evap for me, which means I would need an auto top off. I ran a clip on fan blowing across my T5's & water surface. It was not necessarily placed in the most appropriate place, blowing from one corner to the other corner. It did not do a whole lot, did not bring it down as much as I would have liked it to.

I heard that about 175W DE, that they actually use a 150W DE bulb w/175W ballast. BUT, why not make a 175W DE bulb & use it on the darn 175W ballast? Is it just a matter of time? Is it that complicated?

Does anyone know what a 150W DE bulb with a top reflector put out in terms of par? Anwhere I can find out?

[TimberTDI]

Zman

Try this link for PAR ratings on different 150w DE bulbs (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/nov2002/feature2.htm)

[The Grim Reefer]

I am running 3 150 watt halides over my 125 right now and I don't need no stinking fans or chillers, yet.

My T5's kicked the crap out of the 150 halides on PAR but my LPS's seem to greatly appreciate the decrease in light. My tank is 23.5 inches tall. 150's should work for anything less but I'd step up to 250's for anything taller.

[TimberTDI]

Hey Grim,

You're in Montana. What heat issues?:p

[FastUno]

TimberTDI, great article...exactly what I was looking for.
Now, you wouldn't happen to have one for T5 spectral/par analysis?

Grim, are you keeping any SPS's under your 150W'ers? Do you think there is any way I can squeeze in some mini MH pendants in between that Tek T5 6 bulb fixture? Damn now I wish I had gone with the 4 bulb layout.

[The Grim Reefer]

Originally posted by TimberTDI
Hey Grim,

You're in Montana. What heat issues?:p \'


You've never been here is the summer.

Quick one

I have sps and the monti cap seems to be doing very will under halides.

[TimberTDI]

Can't seem to find one for the T5

[FastUno]

If you guys were doing mostly softies & LPS & only some SPS, what would you get- the 175W MH or 250W MH set?

[The Grim Reefer]

I'd stick with the T5's and just maybe swap lamps, hint hint:p

[FastUno]

Grim, you have had both T5's & MH. What would you stick with given my situation?

[The Grim Reefer]

Play with the T5's some more. What lamp combo are you running right now?

[FastUno]

I noticed that the Blue+'s were closest to the spectral output of MH's. Wondering if that would do the trick? Perhaps to replace my actinic with a blue+ (on the down side this will produce even more pars). I was considering even running 3 blue+'s & 1 sun. Keep in mind that I do not use all 6 bulbs, only the 4 inner ones. The 2 outer ones are ONLY for dawn/dusk.

[JVHam]

Why are you not using all 6. To much light heat? I like the combo of 3 11k ATIs and 3 blue plus. But you could always to 4 blue plus and 1 11k and 1 65ook and get a very blue tank.

Old pic with just Blue +
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/59941PICT0307.jpg

Old pic with 2 11k and 2 Blue +
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/59941Tank-New--Lights-med.jpg

[The Grim Reefer]

I would dump an aquablue and add another day to the mix, 2 days 1 actinic and 1 blueplus, or 2 blueplus if it looks better. If the corals like it you could always use the other 2 slots to mix and match more lamps to get the look you want.

One thing to keep in mind is that Blueplus, Aquablue and actinic all three have mostly actinic phosphores, the aquablue is 60%. You may not be hitting things with too much light, you may be hitting them with too much blue light or at least not enough green and yellow.

[The Grim Reefer]

JVHam,

Sweet tank. Have you tried a 6500 lamp in there? it really seems to bring out the red and yellow colors better having one of those with the Aquablue.

[JVHam]

I am going to order a 2x39 watt TEK retro and combine it with my Icecap 660. I am getting a actinic, a blue plus, and a 6500k and will experiment with different lighting temps.

New Pic
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/59941Tank-041105.jpg

[FastUno]

JVHam, it's not the heat. Just certain corals not liking the light, seems to be too much light?

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=561864

[JVHam]

I agree with you on the light. Since I put my orange fungia under my monti cap it is expanding a lot more. My zoos and SPS love the light though.

[FastUno]

Certain corals do love it & colors are outstanding, whilst other ones can take a turn for the worst.

It has been mind boggling for me.

[chevegan]

well after reading your thread on t5's FastUno I called to order 4x39's for my 50 i'm setting up. But I ended up ordering a 2x150 20k DE pendent with 2 t5 actinics. I love the spectrum of halides. And seriously as for heat. I have been using desk fans for a long time and they work wonders. 2 tward the lights and 2 in the sump and viola. Room temp....almost.

[FastUno]

I am glad you like the MH. I am on the verge of making my decision, keep on swaying back & forth betweem getting MH or not. Still have to make up my mind on 175 vs 250's.

If I do get MH I would definitely get the Aquactinics, they appear to be promosing & less heat generating.

[LIZZI]

I love my Aquactinics Light on my 55 gal. tank. I am running 2 175 MH and 2 actinics and the heat is no problem. The conditions in your room (large room or small) and where the tank is located (in the corner or more open area) may play a role if your tank would heat up or not if you go with larger MH bulbs. You just have to try them what would work for you. Aquactinics can be pretty flexible to make you happy.