Line Noise filter for MH ballast GFCI trips?

[ReefRacer]

Has anyone had to use a line noise filter to keep their electronic ballasts from tripping GFCI the GFCI outlet? This is driving me nuts. It trips when the lights first start.

[bswedenburg]

it shouldn't. get another and try it. sounds like the one you have is defective. it does happen. i had to replace the one in my upstairs bath. after many years of faithful service, it got flaky, and then everytime i turned on my blowdryer, it would trip. so i replaced it. works fine again.

[john rochon]

seems to be more common than not with ballasts especially electronic. I'm having the same issue.

[srb5046th]

Hey- I had no idea an electronic ballast could trip a GFI. I recently added some PC's and all of a sudden my GFI is tripping all the time. What can I do about this.

[Mr. Ugly]

I just set up a MH canopy last night and I'm having gfci problems too.

I haven't tested extensively yet but the gfci's trip when the lights come on if the ballasts are plugged directly in to the protected outlet. The interesting thing was that I plugged the ballasts into an unprotected outlet on a different circuit and it made *2* gfci's on OTHER circuits trip.

To me, it indicates the ballast creates line noise that fools the gfci. In the labs at work, we sometimes have gfci's trip when electronically switched high voltage equipment powers on or off. The electronics tech said it was due to noise from SCRs switching on and off.

Also, I found this interesting link:

http://tvss.net/pq/ballast.htm

The pertinent section states:

2. Ground Trickle - Most electronic ballasts arrive with the disclaimer "do not use in conjunction with a ground fault interrupting ("GFI") system." This is simply acknowledgement of the fact that electronic ballasts, like many diode-rectified loads, dis-charge a tiny amount of current in the ground wire. If there are enough ballasts on the system and a GFI is in effect, it will sense the current flow and shut down the circuits. GFI's are normally only found on those systems where current carried by the ground conductors poses a safety problem...as around swimming pools, showers, etc. In any case, there is at least one ballast manufacturer who produces an electronic ballast which can peacefully coexist with a GFI.

Anyway, I got the canopy used. It runs 2 x 250 mh on Blueline ballasts, and 2 vho on PFO ballasts. The guy I got it from had his house redone w/ gfci outlets for all his reef stuff. He had to run the Bluelines off a regular outlet, plus he had to power up the ballasts separately to keep the gfci's from tripping.

So ground trickle and line noise are likely factors. Once the mh are both running, I can switch the gfci's back on and they stay on without problem, so I don't think it's any simple wiring problem.

I'm going to test some more, and may try using a line noise filter. I'm also wondering if the cable length on the transformer output might be a factor. Maybe some kind of inductance causing a feedback into the electronics. I'll see if my ET friend has any ideas too.

Anybody else have similar problems and/or ideas?

[Mr. Ugly]

Ballast and GFCI probs/solutions, anyone?

[GSerg2]

I just posted almost the exact same thing just a few seconds ago before I saw this post. I had the same thing happen this weekend. I ran a dedicated circuit for my new tank and put it on a GFCI breaker. Whenever I try to fire up the halides, the breaker trips. I am running the lighting off a regular circuit now.

[GSerg2]

Btw, my ballasts are electronic as well.

[jdieck]

You can try a surge supressor or an electronic filter for fluorecent ballasts from RadioShack (About $15.00)

[Infinitereef]

I had posted another thread on a similar issue. My problem is that even I run the the my electronic ballast from another circuit, the same GFI will trip. But similar to what Mr. U experience, when the light is on, I can reset the GFI and everything works fine.
I tried the surge supressor power strip with 40dB noise filter and still does not help.

[Mr. Ugly]

Here's part of a discussion I had with one of our electronic techs at work:


> I haven't done a whole lot of testing, but so far it sounds like line noise from the ballast
> circuits fooling the GFCI'S. Could this be like the GFCI problems with SCR(?) stuff in the labs?

Since the GFIs use transistor logic, they can sense pulses that we don't
know about. Consider the fact that a 60 cycle wave is 16 milliseconds
per cycle. An SCR shut off can take as little as .5 microseconds. The
wire in series with that SCR now has a transition of maybe 2 amps over
.5 microseconds. That 'antenna' can throw that pulse an inch or so to an
adjacent wire, inducing a false current never seen by the equipment but
yet seen by the GFI.

We had such problems in one of our labs. The rated current of the equipment
was 45 amps. We put in a 700A box w/ 60 amp fuses. With the SCR pulsing
on and off, the local oscillations in the mega/giga cycle area in the
line reached over 100 amps, but never seen by anything but the fuse box.
The fuse box was seeing about 45 amps, 60 cycle, and another 50 amps of
megacycle current, induced by the SCRs in the laser.

Similarly, nearby lightning strikes can trip GFCI's through induced currents.

[srb5046th]

So- technical jargon aside, what can be done to stop this from happening. Where can you buy a line noise filter(if that is what will fix it).

[jdieck]

You can try these:From Radioshack this unit has a capacity up to about 2 Amps.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?MSCSProfile=745D84CBF04D14A48AA6FF9C89D722C0BA68C1B04FE384678A5285FCD6E056B17AF21627FDAB E316B90B3C038D68EBD6B7F9F3BD1712EAA9951ACB2590A05C6517EFE46941FEFDD1985D4EFD6321F5E70B4DE9B6C1D45512 DCD9FB3DBCACB9470D8D041CDF370559228E737D478548CF969507C433120615FC64214776F76CE9423BB412258817A1&cookie%5Ftest=1&catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=15-1111

If you need higher capacity you can try either of these ones 10 and 15 Amp. Plug the filter to the GFCI and then the ballast to the filter.
http://www.smarthome.com/1626-10.HTML
http://www.smarthome.com/4845acf.HTML

[Mr. Ugly]

I'd been using several Stanley contractor grade GFCI's and the Stanley heavy duty 8 outlet Prostrips on my various tanks.

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=1719&pcount=&Product_Id=102325&Section.Section_Path=%2F%2FRoot%2FStanleyP%2E%2E%2Eessories%2FGFCI%2FContractorGradeGFCI%2F

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=1709&pcount=&Product_Id=104062&Section.Section_Path=%2F%2FRoot%2FStanleyP%2E%2E%2Eessories%2FPowerStrips%2FHeavyDut%2E%2E%2EhopPowe r%2F

I picked up a canopy with 2x 250MH and VHO actinics all on e-ballasts. My MH e-ballasts would trip the GFCI's on power up. It didn't matter if I plugged the ballasts into the GFCI's or if I plugged them into entirely different circuits. The GFCI's would trip almost every time with even just one of the ballasts. I had this problem with 3 different sets of these GFCI/powerstrips.

I'd read of others with similar problems... even regarding the separate circuits issue. I was very suspicious of an electronic noise issue, having run across similar problems in laboratories at my workplace.

Knowing that excessive cable length can contribute to GFCI problems, I shortened the cords on the strips, the GFCI's, and the ballast outputs the MH. Still, the GFCI's tripped.

I knew that some GFCI's for industrial enviroments have higher trip settings to protect against nuisance trips from line noise. I'd also read that some GFCI's are more sensitive than others.

I decided to try a different GFCI, and picked up a Leviton 20A Smartlock from Home Depot. I wired it up in a 2x4 box with a cord and plug.

I was happily surprised to find that I could plug all of my tank equipment including the lighting into the Leviton without tripping. I even could light both MH at the same time without problem. Interestingly enough, the Stanley GFCI on a different circuit continued to trip while the Leviton stayed on. (Yes, I wired and tested the Leviton correctly with power to the line side.)

So anyway, thought I'd pass along the info regarding noisy ballasts and/or overly sensitive GFCI's.

[GSerg2]

Interesting. My problem was with a GFCI breaker. It was a SquareD HOM 20A. I don't have much choice what breaker I put in obviously but I guess I could go back to a non-GFI breaker and put a GFI outlet in instead.

[john rochon]

got rid of all my E ballasts, went back to standard PFO's
no more tripping , no more lamps going on and off for no reason;)