New tank not looking so good

[Palancar]

Need help figuring out why my corals do not seem to be doing very well. My tank is about 3 months old with the corals all being about 2 months old. After adding the corals to the tank they all looked great for about 2-3 weeks. But since then have all slowly deteriorated. Here is a pic of them. The left col is when they were new and the right col is them now. Tank params follow the pic. Any help would be much appreciated...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/palancar/coral.gif

Tank: 75 gal (Total volume: 110 gal)
Age: 3 months

Filtration: 100 lbs base rock, 25 lbs live rock, 250 lbs DSB
Skimming: 24/7
Circulation: 2 Penguin 1140 (300 gph) powerheads

Lighting (2 months old):
2 - 65 watt actinic compact fluorescent
2 - 65 watt 10,000k compact fluorescent
(260 watts total)
On: 12 hrs per day

Temp: 78.5 +/- .5
PH: 8.27 - 8.35
ORP: 290 - 320
Salinity: 1.024sg
Alk: 7dKH
Calcium: 410
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

Supplements (amounts all per recommended dosage):
Kent Marine Liquid Calcium once a day
Kent Marine Strontium & Molybdenum twice a week
Kent Marine Iodine once a week
Ultra Clear live bacteria once every 1 1/2 months

Water: RO/DI
Changes: 20% every 3 weeks
Salt: Tropic Marin

[MarksReef]

Where is the test results for these ?
Kent Marine Strontium & Molybdenum twice a week
Kent Marine Iodine once a week
Never add if you don't test.
NOW on to this.
Ultra Clear live bacteria once every 1 1/2 months
What are you adding this stuff for ??

[mmancuso13]

Man tose corals are dying off... Sorry for the loss. The tank parms look right for the major ones but something does not agree with the coral. Not enough live rock?? Too much iodine? or Mo /Str?

Not enough light or circulation?

Let's bump this and get somemore opinions

[rags111875]

how deep is the tank- 24"? i see you also have a sandbed-how deep is that? what i'm getting at here is i'm not so sure your corals are getting enough light, especially if they came from tanks with higher wattage bulbs. they may likely have been declining for some time now. also, if i am gonna keep on this light-idea, where are these corals placed in your tank- high/low?

[Palancar]

Originally posted by MarksReef
Where is the test results for these ?
Kent Marine Strontium & Molybdenum twice a week
Kent Marine Iodine once a week
Never add if you don't test.
NOW on to this.

What are you adding this stuff for ??

Iodine test results are barely detectable. 0.01 or less.
LFS recommended the Stront because of my coral prob. No test kit for that.
Ultra Clear was recommended when starting up the tank and I've just continued to follow the recommendations on the bottle that says add 3oz every 30 to 60 days.

[GettingFiesty]

Second picture down--is that bubble algae on your coral?

Have you tested for phosphates?

[tankslave]

There are strontium test kits:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SF1139

Any fish in the tank?
Also boost the circulation in the tank. You might be getting some stagnent spots in the tank.
What kind of skimmer do you have on there?

[tankslave]

oh ya, PHOSPHATE!!! bet its in whole digits PPM. Phosphate will retard coral growth.
Get some RowaPhos in that case, but get a good (salfert, at least) phosphate test kit.

[Palancar]

Originally posted by rags111875
how deep is the tank- 24"? i see you also have a sandbed-how deep is that? what i'm getting at here is i'm not so sure your corals are getting enough light, especially if they came from tanks with higher wattage bulbs. they may likely have been declining for some time now. also, if i am gonna keep on this light-idea, where are these corals placed in your tank- high/low?

21" deep tank
5" sand bed
corals are all placed middle to top of tank/about 8-9" from lights.

[Palancar]

Originally posted by GettingFiesty
Second picture down--is that bubble algae on your coral?

I don't know.

Have you tested for phosphates?

No, but I will buy a kit and find out.

[Palancar]

Originally posted by tankslave
There are strontium test kits:

http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=SF1139

Any fish in the tank?
Also boost the circulation in the tank. You might be getting some stagnent spots in the tank.
What kind of skimmer do you have on there?

Fish: 2 damsels, 1 dwarf tang, 1 clown
Will increase circulation, thanks.
ETSS Super Reef Devil skimmer

[masson]

What kind of lights? (Company)

[Palancar]

Dwarf angel I mean

[Palancar]

Originally posted by masson
What kind of lights? (Company)

Coralife

[masson]

Jw cause ive seen that happen with jebo lights for some people.

[Gawain1974]

Increasing the flow might make a difference...leathers like your toadstool need good flow to keep their excessive mucus rinsed off.
What were the lighting conditions at the LFS in the tanks where those corals came from? Bright lights are important, but these aren't SPS corals.

Let us know what your phosphate is. I've seen corals like this thrive under your lighting conditions, so I'm wondering if the problem isn't chemical or biological.

Did you get all these corals at the same time and from the LFS? Sometimes, we get specimens that have been so abused by the time they get to us, it's really hard to save them despite our best efforts. Good luck!

[tankslave]

ETSS. in the sump i presume.
I venture to guess that your skimmer isn't pulling out too much waste.
what i think might be happening is that the low flow is allowing waste to break down in the tank and isn't getting it to the skimmer. That's fine for processing nitrate, but you will only get phosphate out with the skimmer or some macro algae.

[Palancar]

Originally posted by Gawain1974
What were the lighting conditions at the LFS in the tanks where those corals came from?

Let us know what your phosphate is.

Did you get all these corals at the same time and from the LFS?

Will check on LFS lighting conditions.
Will let you know the phosphate results.
Yes got all the corals at same time and from same LFS. They are very reputable in the area.

[orlenz]

I think your tank is underlit, its allways a good idea to get your tank established before adding coral.

[Palancar]

Originally posted by tankslave
ETSS. in the sump i presume.
I venture to guess that your skimmer isn't pulling out too much waste.


Yes in the sump. Well, being new to the hobby I don't really know about the amout of waste. Nothing really to compare to. I will be increasing the flow to see what happens.

[GettingFiesty]

Originally posted by Palancar
Yes in the sump. Well, being new to the hobby I don't really know about the amout of waste. Nothing really to compare to. I will be increasing the flow to see what happens.

Well you've come to the right place, because we have ALL been right where you are. : )

[puffer21]

your water is probley bad or not enoth light i am have the same problem because i dont have a light

[Palancar]

Originally posted by puffer21
your water is probley bad

Can you elaborate please?

[jer77]

I am very sure your phosphates are too high my friend. But why is the question.
Which pump is pumping the water from the sump back to the main tank?

[jer77]

Also, is the foam your skimmer is collecting dark, thick, pasty, and stinky, or is it like tea? And how long does the collection cup for your skimmer tend to take to fill completely?

[Palancar]

Originally posted by jer77
I am very sure your phosphates are too high my friend. But why is the question.
Which pump is pumping the water from the sump back to the main tank?

So far this sounds like the consensus. I am getting a test kit asap.

A Mag18 pumps back from sump. I was closing it down a bit using a valve because I thought it was too much. But after reading the posts about more flow, I've since opened it up almost wide open. The reason I'm using a Mag18 is because my sump is located in the basement. It has a about a 14' rise so I need the power to get it up there.

[Palancar]

Originally posted by jer77
Also, is the foam your skimmer is collecting dark, thick, pasty, and stinky, or is it like tea? And how long does the collection cup for your skimmer tend to take to fill completely?

Tea. I have a the 1 gallon waste container attached to the cup which fills and I have to empty weekly.

[Ben CC]

First off... lighting is not your problem. Second, if phosphate levels were causing the trouble, you would likely have algae issues. Somehow, some way, your water quality has been degraded to the point where the corals are suffering. The best things you can be doing are...running carbon to reduce/remove toxins, adding a polyfilter, and doing large and frequent water changes. Good luck.

[Palancar]

Thanks for everyone's help so far. I'm really loving this hobby and want my tank to be healthy. Here's what I'm planning on doing asap.

1. Getting a phosphate test kit to see if any probs there.
2. Getting a Stront test kit to see if I'm overdosing there.
3. Increasing my water change frequency at least for the short term.
4. Start using carbon.
5. Increase circulation. I'm going to build a closed-loop system.

Other suggestions maybe I missed?

[MarksReef]

Stop adding - Ultra Clear live bacteria once every 1 1/2 months.

[Palancar]

Originally posted by MarksReef
Stop adding - Ultra Clear live bacteria once every 1 1/2 months.

Roger that!!

[Stasher]

Originally posted by Palancar
A Mag18 pumps back from sump. I was closing it down a bit using a valve because I thought it was too much. But after reading the posts about more flow, I've since opened it up almost wide open. The reason I'm using a Mag18 is because my sump is located in the basement. It has a about a 14' rise so I need the power to get it up there.

Ok....you need to look into this. If you have a Mag18 and are lifting 14' and don't factor in elbows and go with 1" piping you are only getting 460gph wide open. If you are using 1.5" per company suggestion you still only get 507gph.....leave that valve wide open dude! I didn't notice, do you have any powerheads you could use in their until you get a closed loop?
Good Luck

[Palancar]

I am using 1" pipe and luckily I am able to make a straight run from sump up to the tank with no elbows. This is the chart I used when purchasing this pump. It says I should get 560gph at 14'...

Chart (http://www.reefgeek.com/manufacturers/danner_flow_rate.html)

Not to say this chart is necessarily right. But yes going forward I still plan to run it wide open with no valve restriction. Is 560gph enough?

Yes I currently have 2 Penguin 1140 (300 gph) powerheads running.

[Palancar]

The best Phosphate test kit I could get my hands on quickly was from Red Sea. The results were .1.

[GettingFiesty]

From what I have read, that appears a little high, it should be <0.03 ppm. You might want to do some regular water changes to bring that down. It happens to me whenever I overfeed--a bad habit when I have newer fish that I am trying to encourage to eat.

[sipe]

Actually 0.1 is acceptable. Your lighting is low for great stimulation 375 watts is a good minimum for 75 gallon tank.

Looking at you pictures I cannot help, but notice all the trapped air bubbles which are typically stuck in cyano algaes, like red slime, etc. The red slime would also use your excess nitrates and phosphates to grow thus giving you a falsely reassuring level.

Water changes would definitely help dilute out your levels as long as you are using quality replacement water. But adding organisms which eat cyanos would work as well. I am at work and dont have any books to suggest which snails is best.

Adding a refugium would promote the "good" macroalgae growth while preventing the bad.

Good luck.

[Palancar]

For what it's worth, I just tested a batch of fresh RO/DI makup water and results were exactly the same (.1).

I'll research the cyanos and am also interested in a fuge.

[sipe]

Which makes since as your phosphates in the tank will only go up as the fish and corals produce them, and you are supplementing with slightly higher levels of phosphates, so you need something to absorb them like other algaes, or some phosphate absorbing materials which I would not recommend as I am more of a naturalist.

Fuge is so simple and really not that much more $, but you lights could use a boost.