Mwa Ha Ha - Bare-bottom Here I Come!

[raddogz]

Well, after several years of not having tremendous luck in keeping SPS (I'm okay as a beginner but believe I can do better), I have decided to go jump, leap, whatever you want to call it to the bare-bottom world.

The two and half inch inch crushed coral has got to go. I spent the last couple of months vacuuming a much rock laden tank and find myself absolutely disgusted with the murky black liquid that drains into the water change bucket.

You know those puddles in the school yard that got stirred up by random red rubber ball that fell into it, and was just murky as can be...well that 's exactly what the water looked like.

Instead of keeping a bowed out fifty gallon - that was fifty gallons when you counted the internal wet/dry-I have decided to upgrade the tank to a brand spankin new 58g rr Oceanic. I took people's advice and paid Steve from Lucky Ocean a visit, and came home with a tank.

My Mt. Everest pile of rock will now finally be more to scale with more room for aqua-scaping, and hope to increase flow with a much bigger pump - mag 5 to mag 9.5 powering a oceans motions squirt for the return.

[Thales]

Nice!

[GreshamH]

Your livestock will love you :D

[raddogz]

Thanks. I am hoping to document this event with pictures assuming I don't burn or flood the house down first.

Stay tuned...

[sfsuphysics]

Hehehe Eileen, you have offically joined the Dark Side! But if it makes you happy go for it, but to be honest if I had a choice between crushed coral and barebottom I would go barebottom.. Of course I would go for sand over barebottom any day of the week :)

Eagerly awaiting pictures... or a plea to crash on someones couch for a few weeks while the damage is being repaired at your place ;)

[mygirls]

Was that you at Steve's on Tuesday afternoon? Nice tank. I was the one who purchase the six line wrasse. - One of his old timer.

[JoeMack]

Every water change from last week on I'm syphoning as much as I can get w/ a 5G water change. It's about 2" of cand w/ 4G in the bucket. Bare bottom baby!

[Maximus]

You will love BB! Here's a pic I took today:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v285/sanglee24/inter03-05-05.jpg

[teachermark]

Beautiful fish!:D

[JYC1960]

i was reading your post and i am going kind of bare bottom on my 180 set up but to protect the bottom a little i am going to use (fiberglass reinforced panel you can get it at home depot for about 35 for a 8 x4 sheet and its all chem free

[raddogz]

Well, the change is complete. A couple of things I learned

1) Get all your plumbing done as much possible ahead of time, and buy extra couplers, elbows, and bulk-heads.

2) Never ever leave the hose/tube whether draining or filling the tank-stand there - don't even look away other wise three gallons of water will all over your carpet. My birds thought it was amusing that all of sudden they had a moat with a nice river running through.

3) Plan on at least a day for such a project - it probably would have taken not as long if I was using the same tank - but in my case I was upgrading. I started at one in the afternoon, and finished at one the next morning. I am still tweaking and cleaning up.

Lastly...

4) Plan on the extra time that you will sitting by your tank, watching your fish and corals love you for it.

[raddogz]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/8aa01088.jpg

[raddogz]

Yucky Dirt That Is Trapped In The Crushed Coral

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/4f54c883.jpg


Side View Of The Tank
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/b8762167.jpg

Make-Up Water
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/31989a16.jpg

[raddogz]

Draining The Tank
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/e2ba923d.jpg

Murky Water
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/31fad83c.jpg

After I Emptied Most Of The Crushed Coral Out
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/849638bf.jpg

Dirt-Laden Water
You allow your corals to swim in this...
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/001dbcfc.jpg

Front View Of The New Tank
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/26a674f5.jpg

Left-Side of The Tank
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/77426e9c.jpg

Right-Side of The Tank
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/raddogz/02e3cdde.jpg

[raddogz]

I still have to install the T-5's, and re-arrange the cords so they will be hidden from the front. I will have an Oceansmotions Squirt hooked up (need a coupler) to a <holy-mackeral> Mag 9.5 that is teed off to a refugium.

Flow is outrageous right now. I have a Maxi-jet 900 to blow the crap to the front for easy siphoning.

No starboard as you can see I have very little rock in this tank. I really don't plan on messing with the overall rock structure as there are plenty of caves and passageways for the fish. I will have starboard for my "imaginary" upgrade - a 120g tank that I still haven't come close to starting up yet.

[Bamm Bamm]

Your SPS will love you..

Once you go BB you never go back.. I know I never will..

[sfsuphysics]

Eileen while I do agree the barebottom does look better than that nasty crushed coral (a reason why people advise against using it ;)), and if you looked at my sandbed from the side it does look sort of nasty as well,but that barebottom looks too sterile. Now if you had a particular coral covering the bottom like GSP (nice little grassy field) or some xenia (although that stuff loses its flair as well) it might look better. Fortunately if you're going that SPS route as the current local fad of doing things then it probably is the best course of action for the coral growth. And of course your preference to what you like matters most of all :D


Hopefully Dave(capescuba) will stick to his guns though and think the overall look of the tank is more important than the growth factor of a particular coral :) I'd hate to be ridiculed at meetings about my sand bottom *chuckle*

Now what might be nice, is a tradeoff, is get a sandbottom, then use some glue over it as a sealant so its completely hard, and doesn't allow anything to fall into it just on it :) You can have the looks of sand, the ability to be like Bammbamm and put 100x the tank volume flowing through there, with no sand storms, and no sps problems!

[Bamm Bamm]

LOl.. I'm only at 93x/hour turnover in my 90g at this point.. I will add more soon though.=)

I don't like the idea of the "Faux Sandbed" so to speak the glued over sand.. Reason being it looks cool to begin with YEs.. But eventually it's just going to cover with pruple coraline like my starboard did=) unless you start scraping the bottom of your tank as well as all the viewable panels

[mygirls]

Eileen,
Can you give me some information on how you are planning to set up the Squirt? I am thinking about getting one for my future soon to be purchase 90 gal.

Thanks

Victor

[raddogz]

Sure, once I buy the fittings - I'll take some pics to post so you can exactly what I did.

The mag 9.5 would be way overkill for the 58 as is with a single overflow - those megaflows can handle some seriouse water coming through.

You can always do a close loop. The Squirt is pretty weak with the Mag 5 I was using on the former tank.

[raddogz]

It may look sterile, but the trade off of an overall cleaner tank from the flow is a better piece of mind for me even if I was doing LPS or non SPS corals.

I used to do bare-bottom for freshwater tanks (kept Discus) for years on end. Hated the look then, but kept the tank cleaner - used to do twenty percent weekly water changes too like on four to six 20 gallon tanks.

I see the usefulness now....

[Bamm Bamm]

Originally posted by raddogz


The mag 9.5 would be way overkill for the 58 as is with a single overflow - those megaflows can handle some seriouse water coming through.


I think a mag 9.5 should be fine I have a single overflow(1" BHand a 1.25" durso) and I'm actually upgrading the pump to a quiet one 4000(1014gph)..
so that 9.5 should be fine for ya..


What are you going to run the Squirt off of?

[capescuba]

Originally posted by sfsuphysics
... Hopefully Dave(capescuba) will stick to his guns though and think the overall look of the tank is more important than the growth factor of a particular coral :) I'd hate to be ridiculed at meetings about my sand bottom *chuckle*


Hey Mike - I'm right there with you! The main reason I got into this hobby was because I loved what I saw when I went diving - and trust me, I have yet to see any bare bottom dive sites ;)

I also read this artcle in Reefkeeping (October 2004) (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/eb/index.htm) which is quite interesting.

As long as stuff is healthy in my tank, which it is - I think - well nothing is dying yet! then I am happy that it looks the way I want it. I guess I am "agnostic" when it comes to sand or BB, I love my set setup and have no intention of changing it anytime soon. Hell my last reef was setup for 6 years and I NEVER changed or siphoned the sand.

Bottom line is that as long as I am not harming the animals I keep who really cares?

Hang in there Mike - Shields/deflectors ready for the next meeting ;)

Regards,
Dave

[Bamm Bamm]

I agree with Dave... Do what works for you.. I too had a 6" DSB since starting in the hobby and I thought it was doing great and all then I deicded to go BB in an effort to be able to run EXTREME amounts of flow...=) now I don't like the DSB's.. Everything did good with the DSB but since switching to BB everything that was brown or dull before is now colorful and much more vibrant

[Thales]

Originally posted by capescuba
Hey Mike - I'm right there with you! The main reason I got into this hobby was because I loved what I saw when I went diving - and trust me, I have yet to see any bare bottom dive sites ;)

I also read this artcle in Reefkeeping (October 2004) (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/eb/index.htm) which is quite interesting.

As long as stuff is healthy in my tank, which it is - I think - well nothing is dying yet! then I am happy that it looks the way I want it. I guess I am "agnostic" when it comes to sand or BB, I love my set setup and have no intention of changing it anytime soon. Hell my last reef was setup for 6 years and I NEVER changed or siphoned the sand.

Bottom line is that as long as I am not harming the animals I keep who really cares?

Hang in there Mike - Shields/deflectors ready for the next meeting ;)

Regards,
Dave

Thats funny - that article is one of the things that convinced me not to have a sandbed!

[patrickb]

There are a lot of things that can be done with barebottoms that you can't do with a sandbed--dramatically increasing your water flow is the primary advantage.

However, I don't agree that all deep sand beds are nutrient traps. I think a lot of people use the wrong type of crushed coral and often don't have their DSB deep enough.

Raddogs, your old sandbed is a perfect example of a poor sandbed setup. Looking at your pictures it seems that you did not have sugar sized granules, but had sand that was more course. Additionally, it looks like you sand bed was not deep enough (ie: under 4 inches). My guess is that you had a lot of "dirt" (nutrients) falling down between the grains of sand but did not have a deep enough sand bed to foster the proper anerobic bacteria that would break down that "dirt." If you had sugar szed sand less nutrients would work their way down to the bottom of the sand bed and the nutrients that would make it down there would be processed by the anerobic bacteria

Basically, I'm trying to argue that not all sand beds are bad (although it was probably a good idea to change yours out raddogz) I think that a properly set up sand bed is better than no sand bed because of ... well, you know the story.

anyways, enough ranting. Fight the power Dave! DSB for Life!

Patrick

[Thales]

The 'fill up' happens even with sugar sized grains. I also removed my DSB on Sunday (thanks Jim and Joe Mac!) and sugar sized or less and it was nasty. Different beds fill up at different rates, and some fill up so slowly that they practically don't 'fill up'. Bacteria has a limit as to how much they can break down - doesn't matter how anaerobic they are are aren't, a DSB simply cannot break everything down. Look at the coastal waters of FL and the black water events. In natural reefs, sand beds don't do what we ask them to do in our tanks and most of the nutrient export on the reef is in the form of dilution (or uptake by animals) and the nasties are washed to sea where they settle on the abyssal plains. Lagoonal areas do function the way tank dsb's do, but only specific corals grow there, and you really don't want to dig very deep in a lagoon!
I think the DSB idea has become 'reef common sense' but that there is actually no data I can find that supports how we say they function, but I can find data that says they fill up. If anyone knows of any data (not an article by Ron, but an actual study) that supports the common wisdom of the workings of a DSB, please let me know!

My major worry with a sand bed is that something unintentional may happen to disturb the bed. If a powerhead falls while you aren't there...I am not running sand for several reasons, but one of them is the same reason I don't keep sea apples. There is a real risk they may pop and do damage to the corals in the tank.

I too don't think they are all bad - if I was setting up a tank for two year I might run a dsb, but prolly not. My tank looks so much bigger without it and you just don't need it.

I also don't think sand looks natural, just that we are used to seeing sand in a reef tank. I have dove (dived?) on a lot of reefs (not as many as Dave, but a lot) and the corals are rarely in any proximity to the sand. Sure the ocean bottom is sand, but you don't find many coral on the sand, but on rocky outcroppings above the sand.

Fun discussion! I will post before and after pics in another thread soon.

:D

[capescuba]

Originally posted by Lefty
... I also don't think sand looks natural, just that we are used to seeing sand in a reef tank. I have dove (dived?) on a lot of reefs (not as many as Dave, but a lot) and the corals are rarely in any proximity to the sand. Sure the ocean bottom is sand, but you don't find many coral on the sand, but on rocky outcroppings above the sand.


Hmmm - not a bad point! Time to pull out some of the photos from my dives and see if there is any sand around ;)

:hmm1: :hmm2: :hmm5:

[sfsuphysics]

Well I've never been scuba diving (snorkling a few times) but I dont think you see a lot of plastic light diffuser, pvc, frag mounts, epoxyputty in the reefs either ;)

Bottom line whatever makes an individual happy is what they should do. In a thread on another board there some talk about the difference in east coast vs west coast tanks.. then also mentioned some japanese (actually in japan) style tanks which even more vastly different, saw some pictures of corals without much of any rocks or anything.. now talk about unnatural looking, but whatever makes you happy.

[Bamm Bamm]

I see alot of light diffuser when I swim in my tanks=)

[Thales]

Originally posted by sfsuphysics
Well I've never been scuba diving (snorkling a few times) but I dont think you see a lot of plastic light diffuser, pvc, frag mounts, epoxyputty in the reefs either ;)

And you don't see any of that in my tank. Plus, those things are inert, while a sand bed...

:D

Bottom line whatever makes an individual happy is what they should do. In a thread on another board there some talk about the difference in east coast vs west coast tanks.. then also mentioned some japanese (actually in japan) style tanks which even more vastly different, saw some pictures of corals without much of any rocks or anything.. now talk about unnatural looking, but whatever makes you happy.

I don't know if any of us actually believe the 'whatever makes you happy' idea. Full grown tangs in a 10 gallon for instance! But, I do know what you are saying.
I have no problem at all with people putting sand in their tanks because they like it. I do get a little verbose when people say it looks more like a real reef or that sand is a great filter.

:D

[capescuba]

The irony of this maybe that one of the main "rules" of underwater photgraphy and/or video is to point the lense upwards! So it's tough to find any pictures with sand and reef in them ;)

[orientalexpress]

yeah ,but ocean never have power outtage either:rolleyes: ,lapsan

[Thales]

Originally posted by capescuba
The irony of this maybe that one of the main "rules" of underwater photgraphy and/or video is to point the lense upwards! So it's tough to find any pictures with sand and reef in them ;)


Not really! Its hard to find pics with sand because the sand is mostly below/away the reef.

Here is one I found on a quick search. The sand is there, just 15 meters down.

http://www.diversionoz.com/Steve/images/cscape2.jpg

[GreshamH]

Most corals can't live near sand. Wave action and sand = sand blasting tissue away ;)

[capescuba]

I refrained from posting a picture as I thought we'd be here forever! But, as the gauntlet is already down :D

http://tools.coralreef.org/content/return-photo/7590lg/TableCoral2.jpg-lg.jpg?object_id=546

It's all relative, I mean the sand is below the rocks/coral and it's hard to get 15m of depth in my tank! But if that is a factor then how do we account for osmosis and partial pressure on the animals in our tank? With only a few feet in our tanks, we can't come close to the pressure found at say even 30ft in a reef and I rarely see corals in just several inches of water.

Ok - getting silly yet? :smokin:

[Bamm Bamm]

3 words
Japanese Reef Tanks

I just want to point out there beautiful. Yeah I know it has nothing to do with this except I've seen ones with and without sand mostly without and there all beautiful

[sfsuphysics]

Originally posted by Lefty

Here is one I found on a quick search. The sand is there, just 15 meters down.

Ah and to add more to the fruity goodness to the direction thread is going I also notice from that picture, and the one dave supplied, there aren't many corals of different species there, I can see 3 different types of corals within the first "half" of the shot (ie close to the camera) :)

But yah, to further go on what Dave said, I see the sandbed as an artistic representation of those 15 meters away *chuckle*

Originally posted by Bamm Bamm
3 words
Japanese Reef Tanks

I just want to point out there beautiful. Yeah I know it has nothing to do with this except I've seen ones with and without sand mostly without and there all beautiful
Yah I mentioned these a few posts up, they are cleaner than even your clean tanks... although the ones I've seen have not been terribly pretty.. atleast in my western eyes, sure they have nice corals and it looks like a flower bed of sorts, but too too too sterile.


But ya, good times :)

[Thales]

In that pic there is hardly any coral near the sand! :D

Sure its relative, but most of the coral on the reef is as far away from the sand as it can get.

People say that sand looks more natural and that it looks more like a real reef as some of their reasoning for keeping sand in a tank. In truth, most of the coral is nowhere near the sand. Gresham is right - most corals don't 'want' to live near sand because they don't want to get sandblasted.

Sure worrying about pp with animals in the 1-3 atm range is silly, but for deeper animals it may not be. Look at all the problems keeping nautilus.

Sure there are some corals at the margin - thats one of the ways reefs grow. But to look at those corals while ignoring the bulk of the corals 2 feet up, or 15 meters up seems weird.

:D

[sfsuphysics]

Hmmm.. i'm curious.. how much is it corals not wanting to be sand blasted with how much corals need light and climb as high as possible, branching out wide (often shadowing below) that keeps them away from the sand. I know this is probably and apples/oranges argument but trees typically do not have leaves near the base for this very reason, not because the tree doesn't "want" them to get blown away.

Anyways, stop replying to quick I'm trying to get work done and you're making it far too easy for me to procrastinate! :)

[skooter571]

I too have tought about going to BB. could amybody either post some links about the pros and cons or pm them to me. TIA
skooter

[Bamm Bamm]

my tanks are DIRTY.(realtively speaking the panels loking in anyways). I have purple corraline everywhere. I scraped my front pane of acrylic 2 weeks ago and it's allready 10% covered in coraline. Hmmm I must be doing something right=)..

Yea so all in all do whatever you want some people will like it some people won't if you have any problems post them here and we'll help you. If your having issues attributed to a DSB failure later on some people might say Why the heck did you use sand. If you go BB and for some reason have issues..."why are my corals growing so fast and out of control" then email me and we can trade some frags=)...heheh

[Thales]

Originally posted by sfsuphysics
Hmmm.. i'm curious.. how much is it corals not wanting to be sand blasted with how much corals need light and climb as high as possible, branching out wide (often shadowing below) that keeps them away from the sand. I know this is probably and apples/oranges argument but trees typically do not have leaves near the base for this very reason, not because the tree doesn't "want" them to get blown away.

Anyways, stop replying to quick I'm trying to get work done and you're making it far too easy for me to procrastinate! :)

:D I hope I have let enough time pass.

I don't think it is apples and oranges, I think it is both. By building up the reef, the coral gets more light to out compete other corals, and it gets further away from the sand. Also, some corals don't grow up, but rather out, in an effort to shade the corals under them.

[capescuba]

If nothing else this debate shows we are all reasonable adults (that are obviously not working hard enough in their jobs) and that we can agree to disagree without WWIII breaking out!

I think that is what's cool about this club!

See what you started Elaine :D

Any other contentious issues we can all rave about? ;)

[Bamm Bamm]

yeah I just gave my two weeks yesterday I can do whatever I want till next friday.. Then at m new job I'll probably actually have to work and you guys probably won't hear from me much=)
Dan the king of work time posting

[raddogz]

Wow, what a discussion!

I think sandbeds can work under certain situations. In my case, the coarse crushed coral trapped a lot of detrius plus too much rock (that stuff sheds by the way) in a way small tank with a high bioload.

I just cannot come to terms that the my fish could not be that happy, fish were in good health - fat, good growth in the baby percs plus bangaii's, and great color.

Corals were growing, but color was never that good as was polyp extension. So how clean was that water for my fish then?

Side note: Dave, that frag you gave me couple of months ago - last night was the first time I ever saw that much polyp extension...ever. It is placed even lower in the tank, by about six or so inches.

Bamm Bamm - The water coming from the drain sounds like the tank is going to drain on to the floor in a second. The water just boils (not heat) in movement and it not even at full power as some of the flow is being diverted to a refugium. Think hot-tub!

Eileen

[capescuba]

Originally posted by raddogz
... Side note: Dave, that frag you gave me couple of months ago - last night was the first time I ever saw that much polyp extension...ever. It is placed even lower in the tank...
Eileen

Not near the bottom, where the sand might be :eek: lol

Yeah, I found that moving mine lower has been much more beneficial for it - polpys are like 1/4" almost at night now :)

[raddogz]

You gave me two frag pieces. One actually did fall to the bottm in my old tank where it promptly rtn'ed and died. =)

[galleon]

Originally posted by Lefty
The 'fill up' happens even with sugar sized grains. I also removed my DSB on Sunday (thanks Jim and Joe Mac!) and sugar sized or less and it was nasty. Different beds fill up at different rates, and some fill up so slowly that they practically don't 'fill up'. Bacteria has a limit as to how much they can break down - doesn't matter how anaerobic they are are aren't, a DSB simply cannot break everything down. Look at the coastal waters of FL and the black water events. In natural reefs, sand beds don't do what we ask them to do in our tanks and most of the nutrient export on the reef is in the form of dilution (or uptake by animals) and the nasties are washed to sea where they settle on the abyssal plains. Lagoonal areas do function the way tank dsb's do, but only specific corals grow there, and you really don't want to dig very deep in a lagoon!
I think the DSB idea has become 'reef common sense' but that there is actually no data I can find that supports how we say they function, but I can find data that says they fill up. If anyone knows of any data (not an article by Ron, but an actual study) that supports the common wisdom of the workings of a DSB, please let me know!

My major worry with a sand bed is that something unintentional may happen to disturb the bed. If a powerhead falls while you aren't there...I am not running sand for several reasons, but one of them is the same reason I don't keep sea apples. There is a real risk they may pop and do damage to the corals in the tank.

I too don't think they are all bad - if I was setting up a tank for two year I might run a dsb, but prolly not. My tank looks so much bigger without it and you just don't need it.

I also don't think sand looks natural, just that we are used to seeing sand in a reef tank. I have dove (dived?) on a lot of reefs (not as many as Dave, but a lot) and the corals are rarely in any proximity to the sand. Sure the ocean bottom is sand, but you don't find many coral on the sand, but on rocky outcroppings above the sand.

Fun discussion! I will post before and after pics in another thread soon.

:D

You are the master now.

Preach on, brother Lefty.

[Bamm Bamm]

Kinda looked like it was cut and pasted from something Dr. Ron typed=)..
j/k

[Vincerama2]

Originally posted by Bamm Bamm
I think a mag 9.5 should be fine I have a single overflow(1" BHand a 1.25" durso) and I'm actually upgrading the pump to a quiet one 4000(1014gph)..
so that 9.5 should be fine for ya..


What are you going to run the Squirt off of?

I have the same tank as Eileen (Sorry, I kept forgetting to get you measurements! I guess it's moot now!) and I just put a Quiet one 4000 (non-high head) but it's also piped through a SQWD. The one megaflow is quite sufficient to handle that flow. Head is from the floor to the top of a regular height tank to...um...4.5 feet? With the flow stealing SQWD in there, of course! Not sure, but I think the extra bit of flow (over my Via Aqua 2600 = 740gph@0' head) makes a difference, everything (I mean everything) looks better now. Now if only I can get off my butt and stick that Seio 620 in there to replace the ONE rio 180 I have in there which is providing what little supplemental flow I have.

I think it's important, even if your return pump is providing main flow/wave motion, that there is at least one powerhead in the tank...in case the return pump fails at some point when you aren't home, there is still flow in the tank.

V

[raddogz]

True - I still have a Maxi Jet 900 that is placed in the back of the tank (behind the the rocks) to push the detrius to the the front of the tank for easier cleaning.

[Vincerama2]

Personally, I like the fact that stuff lives in the sand. I need to add sand to my tank, actually. There are bare spots and there are some spots with sand.

My target is like half an inch of sand all around so the nassarius and various worms can live in it, but not so deep as to have if producing bubbles of hydrogen sulfide (I saw bubbles in my semi-deep sand bed (2 inches?) and it stank when I moved the tank.

However, it's true that I can't aim a powerhead down low to keep flow going everywhere (thus reducing cyano and detritus build up), due to the presence of the sand.

V

[Bamm Bamm]

Vince that Q1 4000 is rated at 1014gph at 0 foot of head that was quite and upgrade from your other return pump=)

[raddogz]

Vince, is that Q1 cranked all the way up? My Mag has to throttled down otherwise the fish get all p'od at me. The ball valve is on the refugium side as it is teed off from the return pump.

[Thales]

Originally posted by raddogz
Vince, is that Q1 cranked all the way up? My Mag has to throttled down otherwise the fish get all p'od at me. The ball valve is on the refugium side as it is teed off from the return pump.

You could try upping the diameter of the return for several inches before the tank. Like from 3/4 to 1 or 1 1/4 inch. This should allow you to unthrottle the Mag by minimizing the velocity, but maximizing the flow.

[Vincerama2]

The Q1 is plumbed via 3/4" vinyl, into, then out of a ball valve (all the way open) into a SQWD, which, I mentioned before, robs a lot of flow, as it has 1/2" outputs...so the final output is 1/2" pvc! I think that steals a lot of flow and probably wastes a lot of power, though I love the sqwd action, and apparently, so do the corals. I haven't looked recently, but I heard that the sqwd makers are coming out with a 3/4" inch sqwd, which I'll buy when it comes out. I've also considered T'ing the return line BEFORE the sqwd and plumbing some straight flow into the tank (So I get sqwded and unsqwded action, which might retrieve some flow for me.

V

[sfsuphysics]

Yah what Rich said, I have 1" piping from the pump right to the top of the tank for my Q1 return, then I drop it to 1/2" pipe that goes to 4 nozzles (pvc 45s) around the rim of the tank and the flow is not too strong, but its noticably there.

[Bamm Bamm]

Vince why did you reduce it down to 1/2" the in/outputs on the scwd are 3/4" your killing your flow.. redo the outputs in 3/4"

[Vincerama2]

Yeah, that's just what I was just thinking.

Now I remember...the scwd was on my 10g nano tank and the ViaAqua 2600 pump was just way overpowered for a 10g tank with a HOB overflow box (inside/outside/siphon) so I had to use the ball balve to reduce the flow on it, so the scwd output was irrelevant since it needed to be throttled so much. When I got my 58g, I didn't bother redoing the return lines! I'm so dumb...and here I went and bought the Q1 4000 to get more flow when I probably could have gotten away with the ViaAqua 2600 (which is a good pump actually, though it can only be run submerged) and redoing my return lines!

I guess that's the problem with hacking things together (also a problem I see in computer programs!) with old stuff.

I'll go by OSH on the way home anh peruse the PVC aisle! Good thing this thread came up, even though it has nothing to do with scwds!

V

[Bamm Bamm]

LOL.... VInce quit smoking soo much POT it's affecting yor memory.. Just Kidding..

Those scwds are pretty neat I took mine out though because it was restricting my flow to much

[Vincerama2]

Oh, another word about SAND...some fish like sand, don't they? And some clams?

I was at Ultimate Aquarium and was watching happily as some goby was scooping up sand and puffing it out his gills (I take it in search of critters) and I'm pretty sure that they like sand!

But coral only reef tanks would not need that...on the other hand, coral only reef tanks don't have much fish poo or uneaten food either. I don't feed my tank very much and when I do it's just cylcopeze or targetted mysis (ie; one torch/candycane/frogspan polyp gets one mysis piece).

V

[raddogz]

I threw my scwd out after it gunked up too many times on my old tank.

[Thales]

Sand is important for animals that need it!

I ditched my SCWD's as well. To much flow reduction and not reliable. I spent the extra money up front for an OM squirt.

[JoeMack]

Originally posted by Vincerama2
Oh, another word about SAND...some fish like sand, don't they? And some clams?

I was at Ultimate Aquarium and was watching happily as some goby was scooping up sand and puffing it out his gills (I take it in search of critters) and I'm pretty sure that they like sand!


V

Ya, those gobies eat your sand bed up so there is no movement (release of your crap so it doesn't get full (no bugs)). They will probally die after they are finished if not sold(right? may be wrong).

My SB journey is in progress.

[Bamm Bamm]

Yeah ditch that crap Joe.. Hurry up...

Vince...Yeah some critters and fish do like the sand.. i don't have any of them in my tanks anymore though=) Some clams like the sand. My crocea's and Maxima's are doing great on my LR though..Oh and when your ready lets trade some SPS and Zoo's I'm getting quite a collection