Stupid Bulkheads!!!

[sirhelm]

Man what a waste... paid 11.00 ea for 2 1" bulkheads double threaded at Dolphin Pet Village. Now I must say they were a very cool blue color..... but they SUCK!! Both of them leaked thru at the bottom of the tank. So now I have to spend more money on I guess better quality bulkheads.

Not only that, they had passed my first test before I installed the plumbing, but when I attached the plumbing they leaked. So I had to cut out a small section of plumbing (and an elbow) to get them out.

grrrrr



So where can I find Heavy Duty double threaded (inside and out) with double seals in the bay area?

What do you guys/gals use for your overflows?

Thanks
SH

[sfsuphysics]

was there a sponge like washer with them? If so that goes on the inside (ie the wetside) when you tighten it up really tight. Which part leaked? the pipe connection point? if so just put some silicone around it that should fix it up.

[sirhelm]

Hey Physics

Yeah I placed the washer inside of the overflow and screwed the "nut" in. However I only screwed it in hand tight. They both leaked around the washer. I don't know why it leaked but it did. I was thinking of siliconing the area, but to me a bulkhead should not fail. I checked the seal and there was no dirt or damage that i could tell.

I am going to try another bulkhead but I am going to see if they make a double seal (one on the inside and one on the outside) to see if that helps.

Thanks

SH

[sirhelm]

So I am looking at these bulkheads. Does anyone know if any of the LFS carry them??

http://www.coralreefsupply.com/detail.php?table=plumbing_bkhd&item=RL_TT_1

Thanks

SH

[jtong]

I know many koi stores carry those bulkheads. Also, Ace Hardware carries the really nice heavy duty ones. But they are expensive, around $20.

JT

[sfsuphysics]

Hmmm, well if it leaked from hand tightening,the rubber(ish) washer was inside, only thing I can think is that you didn't tighten it enough, if it wasn't absolutely gushing out usually another half turn or 2 is all it takes. I used strap wrenches to tighten all my bulkhead, allows you to safely turn it without as much fear of cracking.

[tacocat]

Yup, there is a fine line between leaking and not leaking. In addition, if you put any lateral forces on the bulkhead, downpipe too long, etc. than the bulkhead will leak also.

[jedininja]

I doubt it will make a difference with different bulkheads. The main things are the washer, tightening them enough, and adding teflon tape on the threads. Even when you do plumbing for a home, teflon tape is always a good precautionary practice.

[ejamsrhere]

I got a couple bulkheads from dolpin too. They suck. I broke one washer and It really wasn't tight.

[Paladin]

sirhelm, I sent you PM. I have some new [Lifegard] bulkheads if you're interested.

[ejamsrhere]

By the way, You can pick up pvc plumbing fittings and use a male insert into a female insert with a gasket in between as a bulkhead. It's cheap and works great. Thats what I used on my overflow that I built. No leaking, the 'washer' will never break and it's cheap.

[Mekong]

I over tightened my bulkhead from marinedepot. I thought I had cracked the tank but turns out I cracked the end of the bulkhead, I was really concerened for a min as the tank was full of water and such.

I got a new bulkhead from dolphin, they have many colors and clear, but I figured good ole black would work best. It seems a little bit higher quailty plastic than the marinedepot bulkhead, works great for me!

[sirhelm]

Hey Everyone thanks for the info.

Couple of things,

I hand tightened them only due a thread I read somewhere about not overtighting them and compressing the seals too much. I guess it is bad for them.

In fact the issue may be due to the durso I put in. They could have caused the issue to me moving them around and tring to get them in the proper position. However when they were both in I retightned the bulkheads and they still leaked.

Note: The leaks were just steady drops (about 1 every second or so). Both bulkheads sit above the sump so they leak into it... however it is the principle.

I did have an issue with the male PVC adapter I screwed into one. I used the teflon tape, yet it still leaked out of the threads. I ended up siliconing the adapter to the bottom of the bulkhead and that stopped that leak!

I am thinking of going away from rigid PVC to flex. Anyone have any experience with flex?

Thanks

SH

[GreshamH]

Originally posted by jedininja
I doubt it will make a difference with different bulkheads. The main things are the washer, tightening them enough, and adding teflon tape on the threads. Even when you do plumbing for a home, teflon tape is always a good precautionary practice.

Most people use WAY too much teflon. The average user uses around 5 wraps, 1 - 2 is all that should be used, if at all (from Spears website). If you use too much tape, you break the fitting over time. All PVC threads are taperred for a reason ;) You'll never find a pro who uses teflon on a bulkhead, never :D A bit of silicone around the inner part of the flange to stop salt creep is really all you should need. The Rainbow Lilfeguard bulkheads however, have a fairly sloppy thread. To help them from skipping/slipping a thread, a bit of teflon wil correct that problem, but thats the only time I recommend teflon with a bulkhead.

[GreshamH]

Flex, as in Spa Flex? Just use a coupler and the proper glue. Always primer Spa Flex first.

[sirhelm]

Hey GreshamH,

What do you mean putting silicone around the flange? Where exactly on the bulkhead are you refering to?

I may check out ACE to see their bulkheads...

Thanks

SH

[sfsuphysics]

Alright, first when you hand tightened them did you tighten them as hard as you can with your hand? I know you don't want to crack the overflow or bulkhead, but if it leaks obviously its not water tight (keyword TIGHT, ie tighten it another turn or so, even if it requires a wrench), now if you tighten it a few more times with a wrench and it still leaks don't tighten it anymore, then there's an issue with the bulkhead.

As to the flex, I have some experience with it.. First then name.. Flex is sort of a misnomer, while yes it'll flex, it'll mostly flexes in the direction it was wound on the spool, that's to say it'll fight you if you try to flex it one way, and actually be spring loaded and put undue lateral strain on your fittings more so than you had before! Unless there's some trick to working with it I just don't know about :). Plus its not cheap, it'll probably cost you close to a $1 per foot, where as you can get a 10 foot long piece of 1" pvc for a bit over $1. My advice, stay with pvc and stay away from flex.

[sirhelm]

Thanks Mike. That was excactly the input I needed for Flex! I will stay away from it.

Re: tightning of the bulkhead, I tightned by hand as far as it would go. I will try one more turn to see if the leaks stop.

Thanks

SH

[Paladin]

Mike, is the flex you're referring to the same as flexible PVC? I was considering getting that to avoid some elbows, but you think it's not worth it?

[ejamsrhere]

I like flex tubing. I used it on my returns. It's nice. I really don't think you want to really pumb pvc directly to a pump becuase you really get alot more vibration noise. At least a vinal hose to pvc if you are going to go that route. It isn't as flexible as vinal by any means, but it does give you a little play.

[sirhelm]

I am going on the belief that bigger is better for the bulkheads

SH

[sirhelm]

Eric,

Are you talking about rubber flex vs PVC flex? I was told to stear away from this due to back pressure issues (causes more head pressure) for the return pumps.

However for the drains it may be a good idea!!

Any leakage issues with that?

SH

[ejamsrhere]

I'm not sure what you mean by VS. so I'll try to clarify.

I personally use 1.5" flexible pvc for my returns. Works great and I'm not the best at perfectly measuring out my plumbing so if I'm off a half inch here and there it doesn't make much difference because it goes where I need it too.

If you plumb a pump directly into PVC it gets really loud. I was reading a website of a company that does custom tank installations and they said the only reason they would plumb with regular PVC was if the customer demanded it. Even then it would be done with warning about noise.

here are pics of the two tubing-
http://www.savko.com/portal/flexibletubing.asp

I use both the flex pvc and the vinyl (got I can't spell). Ideally for noise I would use vinyl, but it's just so unorganized without clamps holding it in place.

I'm not sure what you mean about more head pressure, if you get big enough diameter tubing you should be fine.

[sfsuphysics]

Paladin the stuff I was talking about is the white stuff on the left in the picture ejamsrhere just posted in the link. While I was able to get it to work slightly over a 6 foot length, it still had a noticable arc in it don't know how to unbend it though, so I gave up on the idea... although I do use the piece I had as a drain from my overflow (yah I know sounds hypocritical, but it just happens the direction to the refugium actually benifits from the arc in the hose) .

[sirhelm]

Hey guys, so with the flex PVC do you still use a ball valve on the drains for maintenance?

SH

[Paladin]

Originally posted by sfsuphysics
Paladin the stuff I was talking about is the white stuff on the left in the picture ejamsrhere just posted in the link.
That's the exact one I was going to order--guess I won't now, if it's as difficult to bend as you say. I'll stick with PVC. Thanks.

[ejamsrhere]

sure SH... it's just like regular PVC... Only difference is that it's flexable.

[Paladin]

Eric, is it difficult to bend as Mike mentions?

[sirhelm]

Well I think I am going to reuse the bulkheads I have right now and take the advice from the gurus here. I also am going to put some vaseline on the gaskets as well. I was told that will work better.

I just hate throwing money away...... so hopefully this is the right decision.

I will let you know how it goes.

SH

[ejamsrhere]

It's reasonably flexable... nothing like a garden hose but it does have a certain amount of memory as to the position it was wrapped. It takes whatever shape you put it in over time.

By the way... I noticed on my threaded parts it always seemed to leak from the bulkheads I got from dolphin... I put a hose clamp around the outside of the long part where it was threaded (I have the long sides out) and that stopped the leaks.

[sirhelm]

Well I reused the bulkheads, put some vaseline around the gaskets and tightened them via hand really tight. Guess what? No leaks. So i started to put back the durso's and I found what the issue was. Even with the 90 Street El the durso is still 2 wide for the overflows. I had been cranking them about 3 inches to jam them in. This probably caused the bulkeads to tweak as well, and the seals were not 100% flat (thanks Physics).

Anyhoo... I am going to have to go with the stockman install. The dursos are too large by about 1.5 ".

SH