lionfish in a 10gal.

["F" is 4 Fish]

i was wondering if anyone have raised a lionfish in a ten gal., if it possible. the lionfish i want to raise is a twinspot lionfish(Dendrochirus biocellatus )

here's a pic of the lion
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/81920mini-mini-untitled.bmp

[Skankinsurfer05]

Hmm...I'm not really an expert on keeping lions, but i really think that all species of lion fish are much to big for a 10 gallon. The smallest species of lion fish i know of is the fuzzy dwarf lion, and they need at least a 30 gallon tank. Some one please correct me if i am wrong.....

[LisaD]

30 gallon is about right as a minimum for dwarf lions (not the full sized ones) - a 55 would be better.

For a 10 gallon tank, go to http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2124

Don't crowd the tank with too many fish.

If you are a beginner, you really would be better off starting with a larger tank, say 20 gallon minimum, 29 or 55 better. It is a bit easier to keep a larger tank stable, it isn't likely to fluctuate in temperature, salinity or water quality as fast as a small tank.

["F" is 4 Fish]

this guy only grows up to abot 3-4in. he's the only guy that is going to be in the tank. i just have a 10gal laying around and i thought it will be cool to raise a small lion. if it's not good for him, i'm not going to do it. but if it's possible i'll love to have him.

[Andrew]

Yea. I agree with lisa. The type of lionfish you posted a picture of is a Fu Manchu Lionfish and they need a 20 gallon tank or more. They are the only type of dwarf lionfish that will be ok in a 20 gallon because they dont really get large. While other dwarf lionfish need a 30 gallon or more. Some lionfish need over a 150 gallon tank.


You can get a 20 gallon tank for around $25 and i think it would be worth it to get one and put a Fu Manchu Lionfish in it. You could get a 30 gallon so you could get a larger dwarf lionfish that gets around 6 inches. Rember that Fu Manchu Lionfish are pretty hard to keep but there not the hardest. I say that all dwarf lionfish are hard to keep.

["F" is 4 Fish]

i guess i'll just have to regret to give up 30 to my brother. BTW he's going to raise a lion in there. thanks for the replys .

[Andrew]

You can get small tanks for pretty cheap. Most tank around $20-$30 run around $1.20 a gallon. Just did the math in my head.

["F" is 4 Fish]

if i can't raise it in a 10, i can't really use any money to go buy new equiptment and a new tank. i'm on a budget and is currently converting my other ten into a reef. bumb...

[Andrew]

If you cant get a larger tank then i wouldnt put any lion in a 10 gallon. sorry.

["F" is 4 Fish]

yea that's true. i'll go look at my brother's time to time until i can really afford a 55 or something so i can get a few fish in there.

[Andrew]

sounds good. Good luck. :D

[Absint Reefer]

fu manchu lion dose not move that much and I think he will do fine being raised in a 10gl but not a permanent home the Fu's are slow growing compared to other species of lion

[Vim]

When I up grade it cost me only the new tank and gravel. Also my lfs sells used tanks cheap, remember someone is always getting rid of thier child's fish tank in the classifieds.

[Absint Reefer]

^^agreed^^ I got a nano cube for free doing this

[snorulz]

I know you guys said it needs a 20, but how long would a 15 long tank work? I really would like a lion fish but don't want to buy another tank yet. Thanks

[Absint Reefer]

Originally posted by Carson Lee
fu manchu lion dose not move that much and I think he will do fine being raised in a 10gl but not a permanent home the Fu's are slow growing compared to other species of lion
same

[snorulz]

yeah, but how long roughly???

[Absint Reefer]

also a 10gl is 10in wide and that's double what the lions max size is so I say it would be fine for a long time and the Fu is probably best kept in a species tank because they wait for the food to come to them and they only eat live for the most part

[snorulz]

ok, thanks for the info!!!!!!

["F" is 4 Fish]

i hate going through upgrade, i prefer to just get everything and raise it. when you go through upgrades you have to buy bigger and better equiptment/tank. i like to buy the proper things and go from there. also save on the money and labor.

[Vim]

Labor!? Saving on labor? I think I spend more effort in my 10 gal than in my 55.
Besides I plan way ahead, ALL my equiptment is designed for tanks twice as big, so when I am rich I canjust move the equiptment over to a bigger tank. But thats just how I do things.

[snorulz]

i agree vim

[Absint Reefer]

That's the best way to go

["F" is 4 Fish]

never thought it like that.

[spamin76]

NO!! Don't do it!!!

["F" is 4 Fish]

it's cool, i'm not going to do it. i just never thought it like how they thought. beside till i have enough money i will always have my reef to look at. and if i really want to see a lion, i'll be on my way to go to my brother's house.hehe!!

[ChaosReefer]

u can keep the fu in a 10 no prob for as long as it lives(which generally isnt long for this species) so long as you have INTENSE FILTRATION, i.e. the water in the tank has to have a turn over rate of 20 x an hour or more IMO

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

Originally posted by ChaosReefer
u can keep the fu in a 10 no prob for as long as it lives(which generally isnt long for this species) so long as you have INTENSE FILTRATION, i.e. the water in the tank has to have a turn over rate of 20 x an hour or more IMO


You can keep any fish in any sized tank for "as long as it lives."

[deepseafisher]

Hey, I'm new to saltwater, but have a lot of experience in fresh. I am looking into converting a 29 gallon tank into a FOWLR with a DSB and a 20 gallon sump/refugium. I would really like to get a Dwarf Zebra Lionfish (Dendrochirus zebra). Everything I read says that this fish will only reach 6 inches in the wild (So I should expect it to reach 4-5 in the tank, correct?). I would like to also keep a Coral Beauty or maybe a pair of clownfish in the tank. Can I expect either to survive without being eaten? Will this be an okay beginners fish? If not, is there a lionfish that I with my lack of experience should be able to keep, or do I need to look at some easier fish to start. I understand the process required for weaning them from live food, and am prepared to go through this. I have read Saltwater Aquariums for Dummies, Dick Mill's You and Your Aquarium, and WaterKeeper's threads about starting a new SW tank for newbies. I have also done a large amount of research across the internet over all sorts of lions. Thank you in advance for any help.

[LisaD]

I think a dwarf fuzzy lion (rather than the zebra) would be a great fish for you. Take a look at the lion article in this month's reefkeeping. You'd need to keep it with fish that wouldn't fit into its mouth and wouldn't pick on it. It is hardy and personable. The 29 would be a good sized tank.

[deepseafisher]

Wow. Thanks for the quick response. I can't seem to find the part of this months reefkeeping talking about lionfish, though. Can you give me some guidance?

[Reefcherie]

Originally posted by deepseafisher
Wow. Thanks for the quick response. I can't seem to find the part of this months reefkeeping talking about lionfish, though. Can you give me some guidance?

deepseafisher
<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

There is no article on lionfish in the current issue of Reefkeeping Magazine, but I did find this article for you: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-11/fm/feature/index.htm

Reefcherie
RC Moderator

[deepseafisher]

Oh, nevermind. I found it. I see now that you were talking about the November Issue. I found this article while doing plain internet searches, but i went ahead and read it again. Thanks for the pointers. So, I'm thinking maybe a pair of Tomato Clownfish in with him. Do I need to add the lion first, or the pair of clowns? If I later (after I get some more experience) decide to turn the tank into a reef tank, will the lion be reef safe? I've read a bit about lions being blinded by too much light. Will this be a concern? Thanks again for the help.

[LisaD]

Sorry about not being clear on the reefkeeping article; it's excellent, isn't it? I just found it, didn't realize it wasn't brand new.

I would add the lionfish first, clowns can be very territorial once they get established.

The lion will not bother corals, but will eat crabs and shrimp and any fish it can fit in its mouth.

I don't have a lot of experience keeping lions in brightly lit reefs, but have read the same. I'd guess if it had plenty of caves and overhangs, it would stay away from the light.

I'd guess if you had a moderate light reef, with some of the "easier" soft and hard corals, lit with PCs you might not have that problem with the lions eyes being burned.

Just my opinions. Maybe some more experienced folks will weigh in.

[deepseafisher]

Will a pair of Tomato Clowns work together in a 30 gallon? I have read that they can be territorial, but like I said, I know nothing about keeping saltwater, other than that the fish are nothing like the mean ol' cichlids I've grown so fond of. I am excited to get started, but unfortunately, nothing has a chance of getting underway until late june. Oh, well.

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

Originally posted by deepseafisher
Will a pair of Tomato Clowns work together in a 30 gallon? I have read that they can be territorial, but like I said, I know nothing about keeping saltwater, other than that the fish are nothing like the mean ol' cichlids I've grown so fond of. I am excited to get started, but unfortunately, nothing has a chance of getting underway until late june. Oh, well.

Yo, deepseafisher. I'm just a 45 min drive south of you, down in Allen, TX. If you are ever down this way and want a walk through of my tanks, let me know.

[LisaD]

If you get a large and a small one they will pair up, the female being the larger, and the other staying male. I was thinking they may get territorial and pick on the lion. You could get smaller clowns like ocellaris. BTW, clowns and damsels are a LOT like mean 'ol cichlids. They are their saltwater cousins. For real. :D

[theaquariumguy]

i am currently housing my fuzzy dwarf lion with a cleaner shrimp and a coral banded, so it can be done, but i also have a 180 gallon tank for the shrimp to hide in, tomatoe clowns are one of the meaner species u can get, i also have percula clown with the lion, so a pair of percs would work...and yes lions are reefsafe if you ever decide to put corals in the tank

[ChaosReefer]

Mud Shrimp Moe - when i said as long as it lives I meant for a full life span, and fu manchu's full lifespan in home aquaria is almost always really short, rarely exceeding 6 months, only 1 or 2 people have kept them longer then that as far as i know

LisaD - Lions wont bother the crabs and shrimp so long as they are kept well fed, remember, lions primarily eat living fish, and dont naturally prey on invertebrates, however if the lion has not been fed for a while and is starving to death (not necessarily literally) then it will eat just about anything that moves

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

Originally posted by ChaosReefer
Mud Shrimp Moe - when i said as long as it lives I meant for a full life span, and fu manchu's full lifespan in home aquaria is almost always really short, rarely exceeding 6 months, only 1 or 2 people have kept them longer then that as far as i know




I know what you meant. But you can probably see why I jumped on it. If something is dying in six months in a tank that lives for much longer in the wild, IMHO it's not responsible to even attempt to keep one.

["F" is 4 Fish]

hey deepseafisher start your own thread!!!!!!!!j/k. i don't care. but if you want to house a lion in a 29, why not house another lion or probably an snowflake eel. it'll be cool

when i get the 55 i'm going to house 2-3 lion and an eel. and if there's room probably a scorpion. i don't know about the scorpion though. have to do some research first.

["F" is 4 Fish]

my brother got me into wanting to raise these bastards.LOL

[Vim]

I think that's true 4 all of us

[FMarini]

guess I'll weigh in here.
so first off, no lionfish in a 10gal tank please. While you chose the smallest lion to consider you have to consider water stability and a 10 gal tank w/ a carnivore is not what i consider condusive to stablity. Next Fu man chu lions are one of the toughest lionfish to keep, they act more like scorpionfish than "lionfish", they walk on the bottom, hide alot and are scaredy cats They need hidey holes and shy away from intense lighting. What makes them more difficult is they are extremely difficult to wean over. I went for months feeding live ghost shrimp trying to get these guys to eat. they are very stubborn, and unless you have experience keeping lions, its not the best starter lion.
Now in a 29 a small dwarf fuzzy or dwarf zebra would be fine. I like dwarf fuzzies for starter lions, their colorful, hardy, wean over easier and out in the open
I'm glad you like my article on keeping lionfish, i think its about 2 yrs old, but it still real current as far as husbandry goes
frank

[moggyhill]

tomato clowns are mean and grow too large for a 29

[deepseafisher]

Ok, so not Tomatoes. Do you think Percula or False Percula Clowns would work? Wouldn't they eventually be eaten by the lion? Another fish I am looking at is a Coral Beauty. Could I keep more than one in with the Lion? I understand it gets big enough to not be bothered by the lion, but will it be territorial, or too difficult to keep? I don't want to do a species only tank, or a lion and eel tank. I need to have something colorful in there with it, if this is possible. I appreciate all of the help.

["F" is 4 Fish]

grabing two perc will a good addition. i don't know about the coral beauty. if it could live with a lion, i'll prefer it then the clowns. coral beauty are very beautiful.

[deepseafisher]

Does anyone know if the coral beauty will work with a lion? Will a pair of Beauties and a Lion do okay in a 30? Tank plans may start earlier than expected (score!) and I may start stuff a-cycling on next monday. Heres hoping, right?

[Vim]

What do you mean by starting earlier than expected? Whose kidney did you steal and proceed to sell? Just wondering, beacuse humans have two kidneys and you only used one, wink wink.

[deepseafisher]

Well, I have been quite frugal lately, and my pay is going abit farther than usual. I can afford a lot of the start up stuff, and I'm ready to get started. Spring Break starts next week, and I'll have the time then. So monday, it is!
Love your location. I almost got a job working in the aquarium section once, but I lucked out.

[Vim]

About the only thing walmart has good in means to fish is Oscars. I don't know why but their oscars always look the best. (ok they do ocassionally have good tank deals, I got my 55 complete with everyt thing but fish for $150)

You would really embrace hell, I mean wallmart for a paycheck. Have you ever been there on a saturday at noon, it's crazy

[LisaD]

Will a pair of Beauties and a Lion do okay in a 30?

I notice no one answered this... You cannot keep two dwarf angelfish of the same species together. Generally, unless you have a large tank you can't keep two angels at all in the same tank. One coral beauty and a fuzzy lion should be ok. Are you talking a 55 gallon tank or a 29? I recommend you start with a 55 if you can, and give it plenty of time to cycle with live rock.

[deepseafisher]

55 gallons is not an option for me, unfortunately. My budget is limited to what I can cost-justify to my mom. Thats the breaks, and she is convinced the 29 gal I have is big enough for anything. Alot of the stuff is already coming out of my pocket, so I have to make due. I am going to use a 20 gal sump/refugium, so that should add some volume to the water at any rate.
So a pair of Percula clowns will do okay in the 29 with a dwarf zebra lion? Or should I expect a rather expensive snack? I don't want to just feed them a pair of clowns. But if it will work, I'm willing to trust ya'll, as I have no experience with keeping any of this.

Vim-yeah, sometimes getting help back there is crazy. I once waited 1 and 1/2 hours for help in the aquarium section, before anyone came and helped me. Just crazy stuff, man.

[LisaD]

I think your tank capacity would be fine, but don't know about the clowns being eaten. I've never kept them together.

Not to hijack your thread, but now I have a question. Is it outlandish to keep a dwarf fuzzy lion with a watchman goby and pearly jawfish? These fish could probably be eaten but they live in burrows and are pretty cautious. If the lion is VERY well fed, is there a decent chance this could work, or is it a death sentence for the jawfish and goby? I also have a tiger pistol shrimp (with the watchman) and a few peppermints I wouldn't mind sacrificing or removing from the tank. This is an established 44 gallon pentagon tank with a 5" DSB.

[Vim]

Well Ms Reeper (lisaD), how quickly do you want your gobies to die. Its like saying I want a pet tiger, will it be ok with my prairie dogs?

I think sooner or later the lionfish will get lucky. IMO

[LisaD]

I thought so, just needed a reality check. :) Thanks, Vim.

[Vim]

Any time.

[deepseafisher]

What about the Percualas, Vim (or false perculas, for that matter-I'm not too particular)? Are they equally likely to be dinner? Or do they stand a chance? I get conflicting information about the size of perculas. In one place I read to expect them to get to around an inch and a half, and in another as much as 4 or 5 inches. Do you know how big Percs get?

On your sig it says 55 gallon FOWLR tank of Doom-what do you have in there that makes it of doom? Some Lionfish? Or something far more sinister, like a Damselfish?

By the way, I don't mind a thread-jacking. It seems I jacked this one from someone else. If I didn't appologize then, I do so now for jacking your thread, "F" is for Fish. Thanks for its use, its been very...useful.

[deepseafisher]

BUMP^^

[Vim]

Sorry I Had this thing called school. From what i've seen scuba-ing and public aquariums i'd guess no more than 4".

Since I just killed my dwarf lionfish, with a dragon wrasse I found out an astounding truth, lion fish are wussys. That's why god gave them such a powerful sting. So maybe I might want to recount my previous statement.

Trial and error thats what this hobby is mostly about

[moggyhill]

and rc is about learning from others trial and error so your fish don't have to suffer

[LisaD]

agreed, moggyhill! :)

[deepseafisher]

Okay then. I'll be going with Percs or False Percs then, unless there's something else I don't know about...

[Vim]

yea on full moons they turn into chiquita banana dancers and play really catchy music, like in "the little mermaid".

[deepseafisher]

Chiquita banana dancers? :confused: Yeah, I know what your talking about. But seriously, you think they'll work with the lion? If not, what pair of fish would be colorful and work?

[Vim]

percs are very good esp. if grouped (like 2 to 3 vs 1 lion fish) really as long as they are not smaller than the lionfish's mouth is no problem. I would have done my set up like that except I like my ornamental crabs/ shrimp too much. I've heard if it wasn't for that fact (that lionfish eat cleaner shrimps) they would be considered great reef fish, but don't quote me on that,but it does make sense.

[moggyhill]

the issue with lionfish is really that they will eat food up to about half of their body length. Their mouths open really wide so they can eat something you never thought they could get in there.

[Vim]

. . . unless its a 4" clown fish. If you feel so precarious about it try a maroon clown fish but i'd bet that the Maroon clownfish would eat the lionfish first.

So maybe start with a small lionfish vs a few almost adult clownfish. Put in the clownfish first maybe something and wait till they find something to host in before adding the lionfish.

[deepseafisher]

I wasn't planning on useing an anemone, as I have NO skill with saltwater yet. Do you think I need one to give the clowns something to hide from the lionfish in? Sorry for not responding immediately, I didn't get an email notify for some reason.

[moggyhill]

You do not need an anemone for them. You will be ok and so will they.:)

[deepseafisher]

Thanks. Thats good to know.

Wow, I saw on your sig you've got a 625 african tank...impressive, to say the least. I love africans.

[szesteve]

What should you feed dwarf fuzzy lionfish?

[spamin76]

10 gallons is so small - it's hard to keep any particularly carnivorous salt water fish in a 10. A 10 gallon just can't process the bioload a lion generates while feeding.

[spamin76]

Originally posted by Vim
. . . unless its a 4" clown fish. If you feel so precarious about it try a maroon clown fish but i'd bet that the Maroon clownfish would eat the lionfish first.

So maybe start with a small lionfish vs a few almost adult clownfish. Put in the clownfish first maybe something and wait till they find something to host in before adding the lionfish.

Vim, what constitutes a tank of "DOOM"?

Is it the inhabitants, or the care taker?

Do you have genetically altered evil fish or something?

Are they from an alternate dimension sent here to conquer our fishtanks for some sort of sinister cause?

Or do you just keep undulate triggers?

[moggyhill]

I'm doomed. Stop making me laugh so hard:lol:

[spamin76]

Originally posted by moggyhill
I'm doomed.

Is Moggy in your tank?

[moggyhill]

Originally posted by spamin76
Is Moggy in your tank?
LOL:D

[spamin76]

Come on Vim - I wanna know what a tank of Doom is :)

[moggyhill]

I thought it was putting a lionfish in a 10 gallon tank.

[Vim]

A "TANK OF DOOM" is one whos inhabbitants are evil, ok so maybe the caretaker is a little evil too. About this "genetically altered evil fish thing", WHO TOLD YOU! Was it that foxface lo? I always knew he was a little fishy.

[spamin76]

Gotta watch those foxfaces... they are venomous... I'm sure they'd rub up against you and not think anything of it and then BAM they puncture your wrist, envenomate you, and then next thing you know your on the floor knocked out(or worse) from vaso-contricters... and how do you know they didn't do it on purpose out of some malicious plot? Huh? Huh? You don't know do you? The fish may have just tried to take you out of the picture on purpose....

Ok... right - this has gotten way to silly :lol:

[Absint Reefer]

been stung by a foxface before

[Vim]

Nope stings since my fish have not evolved apposable thumbs, we have an agreedment: they don't bite/ sting/ flash/ or probe me I'll clean their tank. That and I have microchips inserted into their lower lobe, that way if they try any thing ZAPPP!!! BWAHAHA TANK OF DOOM!!!