Refugium Help....plumbing help....

[despot101]

Refugium Help:
I am thinking on either buying a CPR AquaFuge Refugium or building one. I would like to build one but I have quite a few questions so here goes.
First off the tank is a 40gal. breeder, the refugium would be a 5 gal glass or acrylic tank with 13watt power compact over it. I was thinking on drilling a hole in the upper corner of the 40 gal. tank and using a bulkhead with ball value to regulate flow down to the 5 gallon. (Which would be in the stand.) In the refugium I would put the heater, and ph probe, and output tube from my calcium reactor (which I just ordered from GEO). Along with some ls, lr, and algae. My questions are, what size tubing/piping would I want to use? I don't want it soo high that everything in the 5 gallon just gets blown around, but I dont want it soo low that the drip from the calc. reactor affects the ph greatly. Also what type of pump do I use for a return to the main tank? Can I use an internal pump that sits in the 5 gallon? How large would it have to be? Anyway I can protect again flooding in case of a power loss aside from placing the drain in the 40gallon just an inch or so below water level?? Anything I missed?? Any pictures would be great, and once again thank you all so much.

[despot101]

here's a picture...it looks lame but works

[Snailman]

You are building a sump with algae in it. It is not a refugia setup like that. Putting the calcium reactor in it will make the algae grow well from any excess CO2 in the effulant. :) The heater won't keep your tank warm if the flow rate to the 5 gallon is to low. If it is high enough to make the heater work then it won't be a refugia. :( We ahve a 20 gallon refugia and the flow (20GPH) was to low to keep it warm so I had to put a 25 watt heater in it. You might want to conside an intank refugia or a second 5 gallon for the refugia.

[Heinrich]

Alright lets take a look at where you're going to have problems:
1) Drilling an existing tank can be a pain. Especially if its glass I wouldn't do it but get a hang on overlow or build one. Too risky cracking the whole tank and it will take quite some effort and tools to do the job right. Also will require you to remove a good deal of the livestock and then it's still very difficult to drill horizontal not vertically. Good luck.
If its acrylic its easy. Use a 1/2"-3/4" bulkhead.
2)Look at your design this is going to cause a disaster. You're running a sump. You don't limit the drain from the sump with a valve. If something gets stuck the sump pump will pump water faster than it can drain and you're going to flood.
You simply restrict the flow of the return pump. And keep an open return to the sump/refugium. I would always go with a larger overflow than needed.
3) Why are you going with a 5 gallon. A ten is only about $2 more expensive. And the project will cost you a bit of money. So why not jump for a 15H or as large of a tank as you can fit in your sump. This will then allow you to run more flow through the system and keep the heater there too. Also the more water the less the pH will be affected. CO2 is good but even plants want a specific pH.
So the higher the tank the easier it is to have a DSB and still point the return horizontal and not disturb the sandbed. The low flow refugia are only useful for settling out, if your growing algae you'll want as much flow without blowing sand as you can get. So look into a 25H or 15H and then get a submersible pump and go for the 3/4" bulkhead with a strainer.
4) You'll need to raise the returnpump and have enough height to allow the tank to drain to the bulkhead level so a 5 gal as a sump is way too small with a sandbed. You can use a submersible pump and build a little chamber or use some eggcrate to keep algae from getting sucked up, but you should also raise it a few inches from the sand so it won't suck up any sand which will eat up the impeller shaft.
Alright I think you've got some input now. Go declutter your stand and try to figure out what the largest tank is you can fit in there. Leave enough space for the Ca-Re and whatever else Needs to be there and store the other stuff elsewhere.
40g with a Reactor could be tricky in itself and the larger the refugium the stabler the system will be.
Good luck.
93! Heinrich

[despot101]

1) The tank isnt up yet so I would take it to a business that works with glass to have the whole put in.
2) I realized I need a ball valve to control flow from the sump to the tank, (thanks for pointing it out)
3) I have been thinking about a 10, the 5 would be used only for saving space its not about $$$ I have a few 10's sitting around and a couple 5's also.
4) I am not sure 100% what you all mean, but here's a changed drawing with hopefully better results.
BTW with the waterflow I was think around 75-100 gph which isnt really that much so the sand should be ok, yet i am hoping that the heater will be alright in the sump/refugium. Any additional ideas would help a ton thanks!!!

[despot101]

here's another modification, and some additional info.
I am thinking on using either a mag pump 2 or 3 giving me either 250gph or 350gph.
I am leaning towards the 350, because I can always limit it when I have it setup, better to have extra then not enough.
I will probably put the heater, and ph probe in the main tank, because of lower waterflow in the refugium.
What type of turnover do I want in the refugium?
Any suggestions on changes I can make??
Ohh one last thing I will probably hook up an float switch to use for top-off and since I will have to get the 10 gallon drilled for that I will also have back-up drains near the top of the tank leading to empty containers in case of an accidental flood.
Thanks!

[despot101]

here is a better close up design, i changed my mind (again) and will use a 15gallon high. What diameter tubing would I want to use? 1/2"??? Also would what turnover will I want? And would a 13watt pc be enough lighting for this? Or should I use 2x13?? If you see anything that won't work, or could be better please tell me, I'll probably pick up the 15 gallon this weekend. Thanks!!!

[despot101]

sorry i forgot the picture...here it is

[Heinrich]

Look if you can't fit a 25H.
If at all possible I would shoot for that.
You can also do away with the chamber at the right. You'll have a baffle as is on the left so no need. Just angle the waterflow with an ell and a 45 so it points away from the pump. Vertically up is what your shooting for.
Be careful with a spraybar for falling water since it creates a lot of bubbles. Throw a few bioballs in the baffle are to the left and airbubles aren;t going to be an issue. That also gives you more sand and plant area.
If you place the heater by the pump I think you can get away with it as long as your refugium gets roughly 4 tankturnovers.
See if you can't squeeze things so you can fit a 25H which are also extremely reliable.
Look into silent durso, without a overflow box.
Best to build a tiny 3x3x3" box so you can keep it silent and also extract surface scum.
Good luck. Careful with the tank drilling.
The bulkhead on the top modification is as follows:
Ell pointing down, bulkhead, nipple, Threaded X Double Slip Tee.
On the top of the tee attach a piece of pipe and a cap, or plug.
On the bottom glue a barb fitting.
A good idea to use a strainer on the ellbow. So if you find it use a male X female threaded ell.
Or silicone a little self made overflow box in the corner. Pretty easy.
Good luck.
You're going skimmerless right?
Then you should be easily able to stack the CO2 canister horizontaly on a shelf in the stand and keep the dual stage Ca reactor and use a 25H. Would just work out far better. That allows you to go almost 5-6" of sand too. Better nutrient processing. Also you can go with more flow and keep both the pH and heater in the sump.
93! Heinrich