New Copperband - help Quarantining

[Playdope]

Just picked up a new copperband....and I'm drip acclimating it to the quarantine tank water right now. A few questions..

When should I first feed? I got frozen mysis for it... any other types you recommend? cyclopeeze was recommended, but they didn't have the squeeze bottle (only dried), so I was going to wait for the bottle later in the week.

Should I keep the lights off during the whole QT period? If not, when should they go on?

Should I put a blanket over the tank for the first day?

How often should I change water (it is a 29 gal tank, and I have a remora skimmer running on a it, and a sponge filter)?

Any other info I should know would be appreciated.. its my first time QTing.
Thanks!

[Mekong]

If the fish is really tripped out then you might want to cover him and keep the lights off. Some fish could care less, others have problems.

Test and see when it needs to be changed, you will also notice when junk collects on the bottom when it needs to be changed. I did 2 small water changes every week when I had my dwarf fuzzy lion in the QT and same with my betta. On top of that I would check the level often and do a about 7-8g change on it every week or two.

Its also good to try and train the fish to get useto a feeding schedual and ritual. I started hand feeding my betta in the QT and now he has no problem eating, even though he is really shy most of the time.

[Playdope]

Also wondering how much mysis I should feed per feeding session + how many times copperbands should be fed everyday?

And, should I use a net to tranfer it to the main tank? I dont want to injur its snout.

[easttn]

Jon,

Has your CB eaten any food yet? Mine still won't touch anything from outside the tank, live or frozen. I bought him to erridacate aips, and he sure did that, and every fan worm I had. That was almost a year ago, today he still finds lots to eat. From time to time I'll change out a rock from my fuge covered in aips and worms and let him pig out, then return the rock. They are very fun to watch.

[unsane]

Mine wouldnt eat anything and finally croked......$40 meal for my serpent star!!!!!!!!!!

[Playdope]

Anyone able to answer my questions about quarantining?

I'm also curious to hear from those with long-term success.. and what their game plan has been.

I don't have any aptasia in the display tank, but I have some tube worms + dusters. I'm feeding DT's phytoplankton every 2-3 days to get them growing.

I chose to introduce the CB butterfly as the first fish, so it won't feel any competition for food, and it should feel like the king of its territory.

[Playdope]

Originally posted by easttn
Jon,

Has your CB eaten any food yet? Mine still won't touch anything from outside the tank, live or frozen. I bought him to erridacate aips, and he sure did that, and every fan worm I had. That was almost a year ago, today he still finds lots to eat. From time to time I'll change out a rock from my fuge covered in aips and worms and let him pig out, then return the rock. They are very fun to watch.

No it hasn't eaten yet, because I just put it in the quarantine tank this afternoon/evening. I asked above when I should first try feeding it (I was planning on trying out the mysis tomorrow).

I watched it eat mysis at the LFS before buying it.

[Playdope]

To add to my questions (sorry, hehe) ... should I lower the salinity of the water in the quarantine tank only if a disease was to break out.... or should it be kept lower during the whole quarantine period?

Thanks

[Mekong]

I would keep it close to the display as possible. Then acclimate him to the display. If you have great water quality do a water change before you put him in the display with display water.

Does it look sick?

Often times I found good water quality, and good food will even cure ich. I had a damsel that had ich and I just changed 5g every other day in his QT tank with water from my dispaly and in a week he was better.

Dont worry if he is eating, just establish a feeding method, somthing for it to graze. If it ate mysis in the store I am pretty sure that it will at home.

Has it displayed any signs to worry about yet?

[Playdope]

I'm not sure why, but as of about an hour ago, it started going pretty rapidly up and down the walls of the tank. Is this behavior indicative of anything? It just keeps going up and down and up and down and....

[64Ivy]

Originally posted by Playdope
I'm not sure why, but as of about an hour ago, it started going pretty rapidly up and down the walls of the tank. Is this behavior indicative of anything?

Yup,...that it's a bit stressed and trying to get its bearings. You'd do the same if you went through what it has. :)

Hopefully, you saw this fish eat at the LFS before bringing it home. Some CBs imported from the Indo-Pacific are still being caught with cyanide and if this is the case with yours, it's dead already. Hopefully, it wasn't and is just naturally freaked out. In this case, I would just keep the QT tank lights off and movement around it the tank to a minimum. Then, I would go to my local seafood shop and purchase about a dozen local clams, oysters, and mussels. Bring them home and immediately freeze them. Then, at feeding time, thaw one in some tank water, open it and lightly mince the meat with a few strokes of a razor blade. Place the bivalve, half shell and all, in the QT tank under the filter return so that it moves in the current. Leave it there for 15 minutes. If the fish doesn't eat (it probably won't the first time) remove it, discard it, and try again the next morning with another one. If the fish is healthy, it should begin to pick by the third day. Once this happens, you should continue feeding a bivalve twice a day for say, 10 days. Then gradually wean it to Mysis by pressing a little (I soak mine in Selcon) into the meat. Once it begins picking at the mysis, increase the amount daily until you have almost all shrimp. It will no longer stick to the shell, but by this time the CB shouldn't care and will grab it from the water column. You can even stop using the shell at this point. By the end of the third week, your fish should be, strong heartily, and ready for introduction into your main tank. Again, the key is getting a healthy one from the beginning.

Oh yeah, don't forget to change about 10% of the tank water daily, siphoning out every last bit of detritus, then replace it with water from your reef. Good luck.

[Playdope]

I didn't feed it yesterday afternoon/evening when i brought it home, should I wait another day to feed it so it builds an appetite, or should I just feed it this afternoon for the first time?

It seems to be curious. Half the tank is covered with a towel, and the other half not.. and it comes to the open side looking at us on the couch.

Thanks

[Playdope]

At which point should I feed for the first time???

There are some white spots on the tail... do I start hyposalinity now for 4-6 weeks... or do I wait to see if anything gets worse?

It is still going up and down the glass repeatedly - should I wait for this behavior to stop before feeding? Could this be it trying to get my attention to feed it?

[BraenDead]

I just got mine a week ago - it ate mysis the first day. I recommend feeding twice a day if it is willing to eat - you definately want to keep it happy with as much food as it wants to help fight disease. If it is not eating mysis, try the clam shells as suggested and blood worms have had good success with CBB as well. Make sure to keep the water quality as good as possible so to help fght any disease and minimize stress as well.

Bob

[Playdope]

Should I treat with hyposalinity yet? Or should I wait to see if more white spots develop?

[Playdope]

I just tried feeding a small portion of mysis, and it didn't eat any. Do I have to do a water change now and siphon out food?

There aren't any really decorations in the quarantine tank.. except some really large diam. PVC - should this be okay? Or does the copperband need more hiding places when being quarantined?

When should I try feeding again?

[SVTour]

The white spots on the tail should be nothing to worry about...

This was mine about a month or so after having him.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/67545copper.JPG

The white spots fell off after a week or two...it is not ich.

I had fed mine the second day, but really didn't start eating until day 3. I feed mine mysis or gamma shrimp in the morning, and either brine or marine cuisine in the evening. Mine will not touch flake food or cyclopeeze.

[SVTour]

Originally posted by Playdope
I just tried feeding a small portion of mysis, and it didn't eat any. Do I have to do a water change now and siphon out food?

There aren't any really decorations in the quarantine tank.. except some really large diam. PVC - should this be okay? Or does the copperband need more hiding places when being quarantined?

When should I try feeding again?

It might be easier to start with brine...as it's something small.

Also, you might want to try feeding from a syringe. I use a baby syringe that is used to feed infants medicine, and it’s the perfect size to fit a cube of mysis or brine shrimp. After a short time, the fish will peck at the end, waiting for the food to come out. You can find them in your grocery store for a couple bucks.

As for hiding, mine never makes his way in the rocks...so I'm not so sure it's important for them.

[Playdope]

He's just swimming so awkwardly up and down the walls, and doesn't seem happy in the quarantine tank. I just cant help but think it would be happier in the display with better water quality, etc.. but I think I may try at least getting it eating in the smaller QT tank before transfering it.

Are these known to swim strangely when first introduced? Up and down walls and such?

Thanks

[easttn]

Put a LR in there with a lot of fan worms on it. He can hide and I've never met a CB that did not eat them.

[Playdope]

Only problem is, what if it gets disease.. then the rock cant be put in the main tank and is useless??

[easttn]

I think most fish diseases need fish to survive. If the fish dies from a disease, the rock can be left in QT for at least a couple of months. I would not choose a rock with some worms over a fish though. Try to get him fed, it took me 3 CB before mine lived. First cycinide capture, did not last 3 days. Second never ate anything...it was very sad to watch. 3rd happy camper. Hope the best for you.

[Playdope]

Oh man, I came home tonight with some fresh live mussles + clams to try with the Copperband, but now its at the top of the tank poking its nose out of the water surface. The only thing I can imagine is that it is trying to get more oxygen. I put a small powerhead in the tank to break the surface tension some more. What else could I do???

Thanks

[McBeck]

Have you tested the water? I think a water change is probably your best course of action right now. A 29gal w/ no biological filtration can go south pretty quickly.

[Playdope]

Bad news... I woke up this morning, and it didn't make it through the night. <sigh> My only guess is it was collected with cyanide.

[enitnelaVeyaF]

Your specimen showed classic signs of stress from cature and basicly being in captivity. These fish are difficult to keep. I don't think cyanide capture is a valid cause of death in this instance, unfortunatly. you have to read up on this fish and be absolutly ready for it before you buy it. trying to figure out what it needs after buying it will only lead to stress on the animal.

try your hand at keeping and maintaining easier fish before trying another copperband. They aren't easy, period. practice with something easier first. then when you see a common stress reaction you'll know what to do faster than we can read and give advice.

good luck

[McBeck]

This really doesn't sound like cyanide poisoning to me. I think it is much more likely your QT tank cycled when you added the fish.

Quarantining fish is an excellent idea, but setting up and running a safe QT tank can be more daunting the running the main display. A whole lotta bad can happen fast in that small volume of water.

When you try QT'ing again, be sure to test the water daily. You should have at least 50% of the QT tank volume pre-mixed and ready to go.

[Shoestring Reefer]

You said it ate mysis at the LFS, so I agree with others that it doesn't sound like cyanide. It may have been starvation (likely with a CBB) or water quality. I also agree that you should start with an easier, smaller, tougher, and cheaper :) fish that you would also like in your tank. If you want a clown or some chromis or a goby, give them a shot instead of a $40+ fish generally considered "difficult" to get to eat. Adding the CBB first is not a bad idea, but there are plenty of peaceful fish it can co-exist with that can be added before the CBB.

Did you ever give it a clam, and did it eat?

Just PVC is fine. Research when to use hypo and meds before you get your next fish, have a couple of "common" meds like formulin and copper and some kind of antibiotic, know the feeding requirements and have food before hand, and you will be just fine. There aren't really that many diseases and treatments, so if you spend some time in the disease forum you'll get sick of reading the same questions and answers. Then, even if you don't remember anything (like me) it will be easy to re-learn. By the way-I've wanted a CBB for about 6 months, have been researching them, and am just about ready to try one.

[Playdope]

Thanks for the responses guys. I think you make some valid points - it just wasn't smart quarantining for the first time with a copperband.

I didn't even get the opportunity to try to feed it the clam.

Were my experiences with the Copperband in the beginning (fast swimming + breathing at the surface) typical of a new addition? I've seen fish somewhat stressed, but it just seemed a little excessive (then again, I don't have too much of a basis of comparison :)).

I'm thinking of trying a yellow watchman. Hopefully I'll have better success with that.

[Shoestring Reefer]

fast swimming-it could have just been a freaked out fish, who knows. My clowns swam up and down and up and down and up and down for a little while in my QT; water quality was fine, with an established filter from my display, and daily water changes.

Breathing at the surface-it could have been low O2, burned gills from ammonia, I dunno.

[Playdope]

I put water from the display tank in the QT tank for about a week-2 weeks before adding the fish... and I left a sponge filter on it. Shouldn't the cycle have occured? Ughuh - i should have tested the h20. I guess I always figured most didn't cycle their QT tanks - which was why they needed to do water changes all the time. Dunno.

[McBeck]

How would the cycle occur without a source of waste present to produce ammonia? Even if it was "cycled" out of the main tank, there was nothing present to continue feeding the bacteria and they starved.

You might want to re-read some info re: the nitrogen cycle

The bottom line is this: Successful QT tank = daily water testing and frequent water changes.

You could have saved the CBB with a water change. Even if you're unsure what's going on when fish are acting nuts like that, a quick test of all parameters is a sure first step.

[Shoestring Reefer]

We really can't tell why now, water testing at the time would have been helpfull, but all we can do is guess.

[Playdope]

I was doing regular water testing - everything checked out just fine. I also did a water change the night before I woke up to find it dead (I had only had it just over a day before it died).

[aLittletank]

FWIW http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=389184&highlight=copper


IME the QT process was what helped to train my copper band to accept frozen foods


Allen

[mike89t]

Originally posted by Playdope
I put water from the display tank in the QT tank for about a week-2 weeks before adding the fish... and I left a sponge filter on it. Shouldn't the cycle have occured? Ughuh - i should have tested the h20. I guess I always figured most didn't cycle their QT tanks - which was why they needed to do water changes all the time. Dunno.

Your QT tank wasn't properly cycled. Just adding water from your display tank won't fully cycle your QT. There will be some bacteria but not enough to handle the load of a fish and food.

To cycle your QT you can put your sponge filter in your display tank sump for several weeks. That will allow it to become fully estabolished with bacteria.

Here is a great article on how to set up a QT properly.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm

[Playdope]

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to try putting the sponge filter in the sump of the other tank.

[MORAY]

My copper banded is one of my favorite fish and I've had it for 2-3 years. I've never seen it nip at any coral but feather dusters are an endangered species. Aiptasia is well controlled after he was in the tank for about two weeks. I got mine to eat by feeding live brine to get him feeding and then frozen mysis and soon he was eating anything I put in that he can take. But, they are not the most optunistic feeder (other fish will get most of the food) and I hold food for him to take while the others goble up the rest of the food.

I think it's a great fish and other's I have known that keep them feel the same. When I was researching getting one I remember hearing that medium or slightly small of medium seemed to adapt the best. I don't know if there is any fact to that or not.

Hopefully, you will have more time to insure the success of your next CBB. I could tell you were very stressed during the experience but better planning with make this better for both you and the CBB.