Plan for a 55

[Nimmie]

Hi,
I'm a lurker here at Reef Central, and I've finally gotten the nerve to come out and ask some questions. :)
I'm new to SW (have been doing FW for about 3 years, and planted tanks for a year) and I've decided to set up (when I can earn the money) a 55 gallon reef.
I've been researching for a year or so (on the internet mostly, especially this site), and I've also got a few books.
I want to start with FOWLR, and then perhaps after 6 months-1 year start adding some soft corals and other invertebrates. I plan on getting my live rock from liveaquaria.com.
I've been looking at some lighting choices, and I found a metal halide/PC combination hood that looks like it might work. (http://bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=30710;category_id=1863;pcid1=1843;pcid2= ) It's got 2x150 watt 10,000 k Metal Halides, and 2x96 watt actinics, which when I calculated it is at 8.9 watts per gallon. I've heard to grow most corals you need at least 6 watts, is 8 too much?
I'd like to eventually grow Nemenzophyllia turbida, Pachyclavularia sp., Blastomussa merleti and corals with similar requirements. Also, some day (when I have a LOT more experience ;) ) I'd want to try an anemone.

I was also planning on going with the Red Sea Prizm Deluxe skimmer. Do you think that'll be enough?

I thought I might try to set up a 20 gallon sump underneath the tank. I have a pretty basic understanding of this, and I think I could do it.

And lastly, stocking. I thought perhaps a pair of ocellaris clowns, a firefish, a small group of pajama cardinalfish and, someday, a dwarf flame angel.
Because I'm still in school, it's going to take me quite a while to come up with the money for this project, which I think is good because I'll have time to learn.
Thanks in advance,
Claire

[phil519]

Claire...
[welcome]

i'm using an aga 55 reef ready tank. The aquascaping is a pain because the front to back width is minimal at best. If you choose a 55 - consider one with lower length - perhaps a 36" length tank similar to what melev had in his 55 reef. Another possibility is a 75 - which has simliar dimensions but great front-to-back length.

As for sumps - can you even fit a 20 gallon under a standard 55 stand? Something to consider. You could do a custom sump (similar to melev - but he put a 55 sump under a 55 tank!).

The watts rule of thumb really should be thrown out the window.

For example - one could theoretically have minimal wattage but place the corals all the way at the top of the tank. It'll be ugly but the corals will thrive.

I can't speak to the particular model of lighting you've selected but a MH/PC combo is one that several others have used. The only concern I would submit is that PC's bulb life is impacted by heat - and if the MH are on at the same time the PCs are - it could reduce the usable lifespan of the PC bulb.

I haven't used a prizm skimmer before but folks on RC seem to take a liking to bashing sea clones or prizms. I say if it works for you - great! You might want to consider an in-sump skimmer since you'll have a sump. I personally don't have a fug - but that also something to consider in the future (as I am).

Good luck (in school and with this hobby!)

[MichaelD]

If your going for LPS corals I'd recommend the 4X54 watt T5 tek setup you really don't need metal halides in that size tank for LPS, Of course you may find yourself wanting sps and clams, and the metal halides would probably be better for that. I have the 6X54 watt for my 75 and I can keep all the lps and softies, and some sps.
http://www.reefgeek.com/products/categories/lighting/104192.html
I think if your going to set up a sump you should get an in sump skimmer, I'd recommend the euro-reef es5-2, I have the 5-3 for my 75 and it works great, all I have to do is empty the cup. The prizm is apparently very finicky in getting a good quality foam, but i've never had one so I couldn't tell you my experiences, but if you do a search for prizm, I'm sure you'll find some.
Your stocking looks good and will make for a interesting tank.

[Nimmie]

Thanks Phil. This is a great forum :D

I had heard rumours about the 55 being hard to aquascape, so I might go with the 75 (48" long)
To save money I think I'm going to have a go at building a stand (there's a great article on it at http://plantedtank.net/diystand.html )

Yep, I've heard some bashing of Prizms, but I wasn't quite sure why. Will probably go with another skimmer.
Do the stocking ideas look ok?
I tried to pick hardy and peaceful fish for the most part. The flame angel would be added after all the other inhabitants were settled and I had a tid bit more experience to speak of.
I don't know if I'd try my luck with refugiums just yet, but perhaps would build one into the sump that I can take advantage of later.
Thanks for all your help!
:) Claire

[Nimmie]

MichaelD: Yeah, I had the idea that I want to start out with just LPS, but if I want to change later I don't want to have to buy all new equipment (and we all know, it's so darn expensive!)
I was thinking that since the halides and PCs have different switches, I would just turn on the halides for a few hours a day to simulate the afternoon sun on the reef, or I could just do the PCs.
Thanks,
Claire :rollface:

[phil519]

Do the stocking ideas look ok?

I am personally not a fan of cardinalfish - but I think this is a personal preference. The idea of having a few firefish/clowns is fine. You may also consider a royal gramma versus the firefish. The only downside on firefish that i've read is that they are jumpers.

With the flame - there is the concern that some have a tendency to pick at corals. I guess just as people have different personalities - so do flame angels.

BTW - it's not entirely necessary to get the light setup initially if you don't have any corals yet. One could conceivably run a FOWLR tank for some time and then later add lights/corals as funds permit.

You don't want to wait on the skimmer though - you'll want that early on. Euroreefs are very popular on RC. I use an aqua C. Just some more options to consider I guess!

[donald altman]

nimmie for people on a budget like us.. I reccomend the lights at www.aquatraders.com they have some metal halides with t5 lights that are really affordable... I like them alot and it seems like alot of people are having success with them...

Have you thought about a 50 gallon... I love my new one it is 36 inches across.... 20 inches high and is 20 inches wide.

the 20 inches makes aquascaping a breese and very natural looking.. Plus if you make a DIY stand you can put a 29 a gallon sump under it with no problem.. I made my stand with 4x4
posts framing around the top and about a foot off the ground using 2x4's the lower frame holds my sumpn... I was able to make a cool cover for it with some nice fabric and velco that allows me to quickly take off the stand cover work undernieth it and also not worry about getting saltwater getting on it....
I used reall nice fabric and still spent a total of 40 dollars on it..
I got hte wood for around 25 dollars encluding the hardware and spend around 15 or 20 for the velcro some no sew iron on hem stuff and enough fabric to wrap around the whole stand...

you can check it out a picture here...

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/irrelevant2003/detail?.dir=a8f4&.dnm=5b52.jpg&.src=ph

and with the tank on coverd and cycling here...

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/irrelevant2003/detail?.dir=a8f4&.dnm=52b1.jpg&.src=ph

The tank looks kinda small in the pictures.. it is misleading this tank is pretty darn big the couches are kinda oversized and I wanted the tank really tall 4 foot off the ground so I can stare into it while standing I am 6'3.....

just giving you some ideas.... This tank is being made on the cheap though I would share it with you..

[pvtschultz]

I have a 55 and fit two 10 gallon tanks under it, one for a sump and one for a 'fuge. Click on me red house, it went through my set up when I switched from planted to SW. To save you over $100 (that you could put to the lighting), try out this skimmer:

WON Brothers Skimmer (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20758&item=4353129694&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

It might look cheap, and it is cheap, but it works great. There are a few of us here on RC that use them and we all agree that they work great and are a bargain. Check out the sump section in my page for some more details. If I ever get a moment that isn't filled with HW...damn degree...I'll update it again and make it more user friendly.

As for lighting, either go T5s or go 2X110W VHOs with an electronic ballast (lamps will last 18-24 months according the Ice Cap). I can grow Montipora digitas under it without any troubles, and then when yor really get in, add 2X150W or 175W metal halides. I have the parts now...just waiting for the big day. Then you'll be able to grow any light demanding coral. Plus, if you switch 4 foot tanks, you'll still be able to use everything and might want to add more VHOs or something, but you'll still have plenty of light where you want it. I personally think that the W/gal rule should be W/(surface area over aquascape X depth of tank). Where there isn't anything growing, whos gives a rats a$$ how much light there is. If you have acros, place the MHs over them, they'll thrive no matter how wide or big your tank is.

Anyways, I'm a tight a$$, but might site has everything that I added for equipment through the startup of the tank and it is going strong now...oh, go to

RO/DI filter (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20756&item=4353487177&rd=1)

for a great bargain on an RO/DI filter. I started with tap water, but this unit has all but eliminated the diatom problem that I HAD. Good luck, keep us posted. PM me for more bargain deals...I love to save anything that I can and still have a very healthy reef.

[Nimmie]

Well, I was browsing through my local newspaper, and I found an ad for a 70 gallon complete with stand, lights, soft corals and fish. For $600!
It just so happens that I'm doing my eighth grade project right now, and I'm planning to set up a tank (I was thinking planted) at a dementia care facility in my town. I've had my fair share of issues setting this up, mainly because I wrote to businesses asking them to donate, say $25 towards tank/stand/fish etc., and they all apparently think I'm a bit uncredible. (sp?) Which is understandable, I mean, I'm only in eighth grade, so it would definitely seem a little odd. But if this is a 70 gallon reef with fish/lights and all included for $600, I think I just might go for it. I called and left a message and I'm waiting for them to call me back so I can ask some questions...what do you guys think?
so excited! :D
Claire

[donald altman]

In 8th grade I was lucky to have 6 dollars much less 600....and If I did have 600 bucks I wouldn't be thinking about doing something for others I would be buying boxes of candy and video games.

I am glad you are dong something for your town... That is really nice!!

To set up a fish tank for a hospital/nursing home/or assited living facilty is AWESOME...

I would like to do something like this too.. it would be great
for patients. I just lost my grandmother whom required constant care while in a nursing home.... She had alot of activites and friends but I know sometimes probly got bored.. when I get old I would love to have somone keeping a tank for me ... just to have the fish to watch and entertain me and making friends with the fishtank care person would be nice too. That is one heck of a service you will be providing if this goes well.


I bet you could get alot of help if you post what you want to do as a seperate thread in the reef disscusion and newbie forums... there are some amazing people and this just seems like such a good cause... I commend you and thank you for such a grand idea.... one day I would love to try and do this and If I can help in any way please let me know...

(I sell dry base rock .. if you get your tank set up and going
I will be happy to donate some to you.... please keep me informed of your prgress.. please get your story out.. I have a feeling alot of people would be willng to help... write your newspaper.. leave ads here and talk to local reefclubs and fish stores)

GOOD LUCK !!!

[Paul B]

I also think you should go with the t5 or the VHO lamps. 2-150 watt metal halides on a 55 is overkill and you are talking about 500 watts of electricity, if you are paying the electric bill you may be surprised. It will also be much easier to keep this tank at the proper temp. with the flourescent lamps. As for the livestock, that is entirely your preference. I myself have no experience with the skimmer you mention (I build my own) but I would go with a skimmer. I have a 100 gallon reef and I use 2-150 watt MH lamps, you do not need it.
Good luck
Paul

[Nimmie]

Paul B, you're probably right...I think I'll save my parents the shock. (shock! get it? :rolleyes: bad one, I know :D)

I don't intend to get any SPS. (maybe clams eventually, but then I can upgrade when the time comes)

But I have the specifics on the 70 gallon tank in the ad!
70 gallon, tank and stand included ( I think he said 48" long)
Lights are 4x65 watt power compacts
Some leather and mushroom corals and two kinds of polyps and something that he didn't know that sounded like a xenia
No sump, but he said that the tank is so that we could set one up easily
A clownfish, a goby, and a blenny (meaning that I could add more!) he didn't give any specifics in this area, though.
Red Sea Prizm protein skimmer which apparently he's done a little DIY work on so that it runs better
He says he has some live rock.

Apparently he has a bit of a diatom problem right now (not surprising because he doesn't have an RO/DI system) So he'd lower the cost to about $400.

What do you think?

[Paul B]

I don't think it sounds bad but I would go to a store and price the components seperately. Don't worry about the livestock for now you can add that when the tank settles in. You should not put in live animals until the tank cycles. I understand the tank is cycled but it will go through another cycle when you move it. When you drastically disturb rock like that it will have to cycle again but hopefully not as much as a completely new tank. Tanks are not that expensive anymore. I would look into a new one, or maybe a used tank with no livestock. I am sure you could get a used tank with lights for far less than $400 but thats up to you.The lighting is the biggest cost. Just shop around a little before you buy something with live animals that you may not want.
Just my opinion.
Paul

[Nimmie]

Yes, but then there's live rock/protein skimmers/etc to buy and that's expensive also...in either case I'd have to go buy an RO/DI unit, which is going to be around 150-200 dollars.
I priced the individual components online, as I can't get out of the house (I have been stuck in the house with chickenpox for the last week...fun fun for everyone..:rolleyes: ) It added up to more than 1000 altogether.
I know it would go through a bit of a re-cycle, but I plan on moving everything as non-destructively as I can (much as Marc Levenson did in his 14-day 280 gallon tank project. Trashcans filled with water, with livestock in them.
Don't worry, I won't add any more livestock until it's completely cycled :D
I haven't seen any more suitable used tanks, and I've been checking the classified ads of three separate papers for months.
I'll talk it over with the 'rents and see what they think, then I've got to arrange to go see this tank.
Thanks for the help,
Claire :)

[Paul B]

Claire, then go for it.
I have not bought anything for the reef in so long that I am not the best person to ask about prices.
Good luck
Paul B

[Nimmie]

Paul,
thanks. I appreciate your input :)
This is at least one hobby where prices definitely go up and down...:D

[phil519]

I'm also following Paul B's train of thought on the "bargain" value of this deal...

hmmm brand new 75 aga is about $120, canopy another $100, stand another $120...that's $340 already. Brand new Prizm skimmer is $75 (deluxe kick in another $25). $415~$440.

Now if we stop here - I'd say you are not getting a bargain because getting something new should be worth much more than something used. The difference here is a measly 10% max (plus a little for shipping of items).

However - the catch is that he is also offering: lights, LR, LS, 3 fish plus potentially some leather/mushrooms/xenia. Anything else?

Here's the tough decision...do you go with something you control - that is everything new, you decide what livestock, you decide when to introduce it etc for more cost - or do you go with a used system for cheaper?

It's a tough call imho. If the canopy isn't included - you aren't getting a "bargain" as you think you are. Even at $400.

Even if said $400 were a bargain - you'll never be happy if the fish/corals aren't what you wanted in the first place. Something to chew on I guess...

After all that - I guess my point is - I agree with Paul - check around.

Last point - your comment about melev being able to transfer tanks...Keep in mind melev had everything done in his home - not moving from one place to another place over bumpy roads or what not. Also - I want you to know that for an 8th grader you seem to possess incredible knowledge and maturity and I commend you for that. But - I would urge you not to compare yourself with melev - as I personally would consider melev as an "expert" at reef keeping. So while melev can "do it" - it means to me that it is not impossible. It doesn't mean that everyone can do it successfully though. Hope that makes sense.

Good luck in whatever choice you make. If you choose the $400 deal - see if he can include the canopy or another price break!

[Nimmie]

I'm going to call the guy back and ask if it comes with a canopy. We'll also see if we can set up a time to see it.
It is a tough call. But if it's a nice setup, with healthy livestock, I think I'd probably go for it. Lights are the most expensive thing we need ($600! I found a good set for $600! eek!)
You're right, melev had the LR, LS, etc in his house...that's a good point. Also, don't worry, I wasn't comparing myself to melev, I'm on page 13 of his thread and he's definitely an expert :)
They lost me talking about the water heater :lol:
I'm just thinking of using a similar technique, and hoping it works.
And of course not adding any new livestock until it's completely re-cycled and all.
But yeah, I'm going to have to see this tank for myself and then decide what to do. (And being sick, that could take a little while..)
Anyway, thanks!
Claire

:)

[donald altman]

I think if you tell everyone what your doing you liable to find several people with extra equipment that would glady help you..
I will donate any base rock you need (it's what I have) Personaly if I had an extra tank I would get it to ya.. I LOVE that you are trying to help somone else .. I think others would love the oppertunity to help the clinic as well...

[donald altman]

check out the odyssea lights they have 48 inch t5's for 40 dollars weith 12000k bulbs.. they also have a nice t5 and metal halide light for 329.

[pvtschultz]

Originally posted by Nimmie
Yes, but then there's live rock/protein skimmers/etc to buy and that's expensive also...in either case I'd have to go buy an RO/DI unit, which is going to be around 150-200 dollars.
Claire :)

Don't waste your money on an expensive RO/DI. Get the one that I linked to in my earlier post. You'll still get the same 0 TDS and everything at a fraction of the cost. It is a 120 GPD unit, try touching a 50 GPD unit for $100...okay, about $120 shipped.

Other than that, Paul and I are in agreement about the VHOs. Go to www.hellolights.com and look at their retrofit kits. I got 2X110W (46.5") VHOs, lamps, ballasts, and waterproof endcaps for about $120 shipped. You'll need a reflector if you don't have one. But if that hood comes with 4X65W PCs, then that'll be fine for the time being. They do break quite easily and there are other drawbacks, but you'll learn more as you go.

[donald altman]

I think if you tell everyone what your doing you liable to find several people with extra equipment that would glady help you..
I will donate any base rock you need (it's what I have) Personaly if I had an extra tank I would get it to ya.. I LOVE that you are trying to help somone else .. I think others would love the oppertunity to help the clinic as well...

[donald altman]

that same aquatraders.com site has the 4 65 (220)watt compact units for 69 dollars with 2 of the 03 actinics and 2 10000k bulbs

[Nimmie]

aquatraders.com? I'll check it out...I've been looking on aquabid too. Not a whole lot of luck so far. I've been doing homework for an hour or so, so now I've got to get offline and actually call the guy! :D

[Nimmie]

Ooh! They have a 384 watt 48" combination setup on aquatraders...oh wait, that's like...5.4 watts per gallon. Darn.

On the other hand, they have some pretty good deals on other stuff.
Oh, I just called the guy and we're going to talk again on Friday, and maybe view the tank on Saturday.
I almost forgot! I have a compact flourescent set that the Marine Life Centre in my town donated, so I can add that to the lighting scheme. I'm not sure about the wattage though, I need to call someone about that. But it'll of course be a great addition....
I love looking through the pictures on aquabid...

[donald altman]

I got the skimmer on aquatraders.. it works great

[donald altman]

and some 36 inch long comapcts..... they are good lights imo
I like them better then the orbits Ihave.

[Nimmie]

I've heard good things about aquatraders.
If we go with this used setup, all we need is a RO/DI unit, and that should be reasonable at the LFS...I don't know, but we're probably going to see it tomorrow (if I'm not sick! :rolleyes: )
I have to change the picture on the update blog now, but i don't have any reef pictures :)

edit: fixed mispelling

[Nimmie]

Wow.. I'm sorry to re-ignite an old thread, but I have updates.
The 70 gallon was a really good deal, lots of rock and coral and extras (bucket of salt, extra timers, test kits, Reef Plus and a few other things), so we decided to go for it.
Took the plunge, and now it's been set up for about 5 weeks. Everything is looking good so far, and we were very lucky by the fact that we didn't have any ammonia spikes. The corals are doing well, I feed them several times a week with phytoplankton (and going to start culturing it and brine shrimp soon). The fish get fed every day by either myself or the activities director. A few days ago I added two pajama cardinalfish and so far they seem to be doing well. (I had a quarantine tank all set up, with bio-spira and everything, and when we went to the LFS it turned out that they'd had the cardinals for about 6 months, so no need to quarantine. Of course the first thing my mum asks when we get home is how come I didn't get any fish to put in the quarantine as well? :rolleyes: :) )
I am pretty soon going to buy some new bulbs and then we'll see about more corals. I'm looking at bubble corals.. and I saw an advert in a newspaper that was advertising $10 corals (frags I assume) so we'll see about that.
Meanwhile, everything seems to be going ok. Parameters are fine.
That blenny is sure funny looking (in a cute way).
Claire :)